Did Ford show the next generation Edge in January Conference Powerpoint Slides?

[Kris Kolman]

I was disappointed there was not mid-sized SUV styling concept at either Detroit or Chicago and its now clear why we didn't see anything. Ford is much further along than I thought they were, although something tells me this is still early in the design effort (seems photoshopish). As for my thoughts on the design... I'm liking that they are keeping the general proportions the same, which gives me hope they are avoiding the useless-3rd row just to have it syndrome. But what really stands out is how the front has been shaped to give a triangular base, which in turn visually lowers the front end. Just wish they would have stuck with an evolution of the current grill, which to me the best part of the current design. To me the Edge by being the middle-child would do best by standing out and not taking on the corporate face.

 

[Kris Kolman]

Lincoln can't routinely discontinue products for extended periods of time like that and hope to survive. If this is how they are doing business, they need their own factory.

I would doubt that is happening... Sounds like they are retooling on a vacant/unused part of the plant for the initial startup. Which should disrupt any of the current production capability. Thus thru a combination of phasing the shutdown and stocking up on the current model Lincoln will bridge the gap between the current and new MKX. Can't extrapolate the MKZ situation to this one as that was caused by initial production quality issues beyond what they planned for.

[BORG]

I was disappointed there was not mid-sized SUV styling concept at either Detroit or Chicago and its now clear why we didn't see anything. Ford is much further along than I thought they were, although something tells me this is still early in the design effort (seems photoshopish). As for my thoughts on the design... I'm liking that they are keeping the general proportions the same, which gives me hope they are avoiding the useless-3rd row just to have it syndrome. But what really stands out is how the front has been shaped to give a triangular base, which in turn visually lowers the front end. Just wish they would have stuck with an evolution of the current grill, which to me the best part of the current design. To me the Edge by being the middle-child would do best by standing out and not taking on the corporate face.

 

 

 

I actually think the new fascia made it look more like a classic SUV, more like a Jeep Grand Cherokee which is something I personally wanted to see. I've often said the Jeep Grand Cherokee is one of my favorite vehicles from Detroit. The current Edge is a nice looking car, very distinctive and forward thinking, admittedly the new Edge looks conservative and conventional by comparison. But I actually think the taller grille and beefier bumper makes it look taller than the current Edge. I still love what I'm seeing with the new Edge, the only thing I'd like to see different are more interesting variations of the grille insert, and perhaps we will.

 

As for the extended Lincoln delays, the MKZ was delayed two months on purpose, which is doable but not acceptable. They tacked on another two months because of quality problems. If they do this with the MKX, then Lincoln has an unsustainable problem, they can't do this with every launch because they are tied to the production schedule of the Ford factory they are borrowing. At some point Lincoln's frugality will kill it just as quickly as overspending.

Edited February 16, 2013 by BORG

[jpd80]

We're only starting to see the importance of the CD4 mega platform and that Fusion/MKZ is only the beginning.

Not only will we see CD4.2 Edge and MKX in about 12 months time, Taurus and MKS will join them a year later.

And let's not forget the Euro versions of Mondeo Hatchback and Station wagon as well as S-Max and Galaxy.

Who's to say that Explorer won't eventually come across as well.....

 

I don't have a problem with that much shared product provided that styling doesn't become generic,

every vehicle needs to have its own character and individuality, making that happen on what seems

to be a 21st century "Fox" platform is going to be an interesting challenge for Ford, balancing the

need for differentiation against maximizing return on investment - it's a fine line to walk...

 

Borg raised an interesting point about Lincoln having its own plant, not that I think it will happen

but Ford has the opportunity to put so many Lincolns onto CD4 that maybe setting up a unique

Lincoln plant within a plant may not be as far fetched as we imagine. There are a lot of good

reasons to do that, especially if you're chasing superior quality which may cause the Lincolns

to be more "hand built" with more eyes on the production process and more attention to detail.

Having dedicated production for that may become an essential ingredient in changing perception...

Edited February 16, 2013 by jpd80

[timf]

Borg raised an interesting point about Lincoln having its own plant, not that I think it will happen

but Ford has the opportunity to put so many Lincolns onto CD4 that maybe setting up a unique

Lincoln plant within a plant may not be as far fetched as we imagine. There are a lot of good

reasons to do that, especially if you're chasing superior quality which may cause the Lincolns

to be more "hand built" with more eyes on the production process and more attention to detail.

Having dedicated production for that may become an essential ingredient in changing perception...

 

Lincoln keeps bringing up the bespoke idea i.e. custom designed. If they are truly serious about this type of program beyond it meaning one or two extra interior or exterior color options, they are going to need to pursue some type of special line where these changes can be integrated. It may be more on the suppliers than the final assembly, or they need to bring some of the finishing work in house at least on special order vehicles. I could see a plant such as Flat Rock becoming the epicenter for Lincoln and other custom-made vehicles since they already build a highly customizable vehicle in the Mustang.

[Moosetang]

Lincoln keeps bringing up the bespoke idea i.e. custom designed. If they are truly serious about this type of program beyond it meaning one or two extra interior or exterior color options, they are going to need to pursue some type of special line where these changes can be integrated. It may be more on the suppliers than the final assembly, or they need to bring some of the finishing work in house at least on special order vehicles. I could see a plant such as Flat Rock becoming the epicenter for Lincoln and other custom-made vehicles since they already build a highly customizable vehicle in the Mustang.

Flat Rock's going to be making lots of Fusions.

 

I don't think there's a need for a dedicated Lincoln plant unless they want to step up to Aston/Rolls level craftsmanship where everything is by hand to the nth degree and a customer can get a fully-functioning Starbucks installed if they're willing to pay enough. Bespoke paint colors would probably require a special paint shop, but the existing plants can accommodate plenty of bolt-in changes like different interior colors/patterns/materials without needing much more than good tracking software and diligent supervision. What they need is to focus extra hard on Quality control and go above the common Ford inspection process to make sure every Lincoln s delivered tight.

[BORG]

There is no question that the Lincoln MKZ launch was hobbled partly by Lincoln's last-minute ambitions, and their inability to control the production schedule of its own cars because they don't have a dedicated facility. I mean when Ford stopped CD3 production to change-over, they weren't going to keep the old MKZ in production and perform another changeover in 2 months. I would be very disappointed if the next-gen MKX is facing this same sort of ramp-up problem alongside the next-gen Edge now that they have several years to sort this out. If they are, is it because they are no-longer co-developing cars with the Ford and have to wait on Ford to give them a finished product to modify?

 

And I don't buy the rumor that the 2013 MKZ was suppose to launch a year earlier than it did, the MKZ was dependent on the Ford Fusion platform....there is no way it could have launched ahead of the Fusion without developing the car on its own.

 

Depending on Lincoln's success and ambitions, like all luxury brands of its intended caliber, Lincoln will eventually need its own production facility to achieve greater independence and control over its own products. However, Lincoln isn't there yet and doesn't make enough money so they are going to have to figure this out in the interim.

[Kris Kolman]

I actually think the new fascia made it look more like a classic SUV, more like a Jeep Grand Cherokee which is something I personally wanted to see. I've often said the Jeep Grand Cherokee is one of my favorite vehicles from Detroit. The current Edge is a nice looking car, very distinctive and forward thinking, admittedly the new Edge looks conservative and conventional by comparison. But I actually think the taller grille and beefier bumper makes it look taller than the current Edge. I still love what I'm seeing with the new Edge, the only thing I'd like to see different are more interesting variations of the grille insert, and perhaps we will.

 

Agree, but there is a difference between the GC and the Edge in the showroom. GC effectively has the showroom to itself, no real internal competition while he Edge has internal showroom pressure from the Escape below it and the Explorer above it. Edge to succeed I believe needs to stand out a bit more and be the most aggressive/stylish of the three. Escape as the value option could turn off potential sales from people stepping down (i.e. empty nesters), while the Explorer as the family option needs to have the widest appeal. As such these two will be nature want to have conservative styling... Of course I'm thinking of the NA and some Asian markets where the Explorer is available. In other markets the Edge equals the Explorer... As such its understandable that it would have a more conservative face, and can see your view point.

 

Not sure Lincoln is as hobbled by sharing production facilities if planned properly... To me the key in reducing risk is for the company to reduce the time between the Ford and Lincoln launch. It also needs to phase in the production switch-over as much as possible and stock-pile old models. The word above from Oakville is that they are starting the switch-over on an unused part of the plant. Which allows Ford and Lincoln to work thru pre-production issues before committing to the whole plant. The key is during this initial pre-production phase to work on both Ford and Lincoln products. This is all seems reasonable to accomplish if properly planned and if the company knows the value-stream and projects sales well. And some availability gap during the switch-over is desirable as well as a way to prop-up old model sale prices and assure not too many are left on the lot when the new ones roll in.

[RichardJensen]

There is no question that the Lincoln MKZ launch was hobbled partly by Lincoln's last-minute ambitions, and their inability to control the production schedule of its own cars because they don't have a dedicated facility. I mean when Ford stopped CD3 production to change-over, they weren't going to keep the old MKZ in production and perform another changeover in 2 months.

 

A dedicated Lincoln facility is a non-starter.

 

Further, if Ford were aware of how long it would take to get the MKZ up to speed, they would've gradually built up MKZ inventory by over producing it in the months leading up to the changeover.

[MKII]

I thought the main issue was that quality control was not meeting the standards set for the new & improved Lincolns assembled at Hermosillo, hence the need to redo Q/C at Flat Rock. At least I do not remember reading that getting the MKZ built and out the factory doors was the problem, or as Borg put it their inability to control the production schedule.

I know it was reported using the wording " quality inspections that can't be handled fast enough" but this seems like PR speak masking a problem

that the Hermosillo priority is get em built and out of the plant as quick as possible.

 

There must of been quite of pile up of already built MKZ's when someone with some balls noticed Q/C problems not being reported and said this just won't do, for Ford to set up another Q/C inspection station at Flat Rock. Yes/No?

Edited February 18, 2013 by MKII

[BORG]

I thought the main issue was that quality control was not meeting the standards set for the new & improved Lincolns assembled at Hermosillo, hence the need to redo Q/C at Flat Rock. At least I do not remember reading that getting the MKZ built and out the factory doors was the problem, or as Borg put it their inability to control the production schedule.

I know it was reported using the wording " quality inspections that can't be handled fast enough" but this seems like PR speak masking a problem

that the Hermosillo priority is get em built and out of the plant as quick as possible.

 

There must of been quite of pile up of already built MKZ's when someone with some balls noticed Q/C problems not being reported and said this just won't do, for Ford to set up another Q/C inspection station at Flat Rock. Yes/No?

Lincoln indicated this was a temporary solution to deal with the overflow at Hermosillo.

[akirby]

I thought the main issue was that quality control was not meeting the standards set for the new & improved Lincolns assembled at Hermosillo, hence the need to redo Q/C at Flat Rock. At least I do not remember reading that getting the MKZ built and out the factory doors was the problem, or as Borg put it their inability to control the production schedule.

I know it was reported using the wording " quality inspections that can't be handled fast enough" but this seems like PR speak masking a problem

that the Hermosillo priority is get em built and out of the plant as quick as possible.

 

There must of been quite of pile up of already built MKZ's when someone with some balls noticed Q/C problems not being reported and said this just won't do, for Ford to set up another Q/C inspection station at Flat Rock. Yes/No?

 

This is all part of the normal launch procedure for a new model. They don't have time to do the QC inspections on the existing backlog AND new ones rolling off the line at the same time. The Fusion problems have probably contributed to the backlog by taking up plant resources.

[Biker16]

Lincoln can't routinely discontinue products for extended periods of time like that and hope to survive. If this is how they are doing business, they need their own factory.

 

why do you think a new factory would solve this issue?

 

does Audi and Lexus have their own factories? The issue with OAC is the vehicles but the plant itself, it needs to be redone.

[BORG]

why do you think a new factory would solve this issue?

 

does Audi and Lexus have their own factories? The issue with OAC is the vehicles but the plant itself, it needs to be redone.

 

Lincoln is slave to Ford's product cycle since everything is built down the same line, therefore there is no room for Lincoln to set its own product schedule and production table. Ultimately this really isn't a big issue for Lincolns since they are now and for the long-term strictly tied to Ford products and the level of production differentiation is actually very trivial, however if we start seeing long gaps between product transitions then we have a problem with infrastructure and Ford needs to work more closely with Lincoln, or Lincoln needs to work more closely with Ford.

Edited February 18, 2013 by BORG

[Biker16]

Lincoln is slave to Ford's product cycle since everything is built down the same line, therefore there is no room for Lincoln to set its own product schedule and production table. Ultimately this really isn't a big issue for Lincolns since they are now and for the long-term strictly tied to Ford products and the level of production differentiation is actually very trivial, however if we start seeing long gaps between product transitions then we have a problem with infrastructure and Ford needs to work more closely with Lincoln, or Lincoln needs to work more closely with Ford.

 

 

but the architecture is all new even in the future when ford and Lincoln are separated you will still have shared platforms and more importantly Shared processes and suppliers. it will be more flexible when all plants and vehicle are moved to one ford Architectures but this go round they need to get these plants on the same page, process wise and in plant layout.

[Edstock]

and the level of production differentiation is actually very trivial,

 

Sharing a platform still results in a huge number of Lincoln-specific parts, from the dies for the different greenhouses to the trunk carpet. You're entitled to your opinion, but mine is that it ain't trivial at all.

[jpd80]

Lincoln is slave to Ford's product cycle since everything is built down the same line, therefore there is no room for Lincoln to set its own product schedule and production table. Ultimately this really isn't a big issue for Lincolns since they are now and for the long-term strictly tied to Ford products and the level of production differentiation is actually very trivial, however if we start seeing long gaps between product transitions then we have a problem with infrastructure and Ford needs to work more closely with Lincoln, or Lincoln needs to work more closely with Ford.

It's already about five or six months since the 2013 Fusion launched and we're only just seeing significant stocks of MKZ arriving at dealerships

That's a fair old delay as most makers will be readying 2014 models soon, what will Lincoln do with timing its 2014 MKZ......

[Edstock]

what will Lincoln do with timing its 2014 MKZ......

 

Um, just try to get production increased as much as possible?

[saintlaz1]

Off Topic- Was it cheaper to send the MKZ's to Flat Rock than Sending the inspectors to Mexico?

 

Anyway, I really dont think that Edge design is forward enough, Would have liked to see them go for it more.

[jasonj80]

Off Topic- Was it cheaper to send the MKZ's to Flat Rock than Sending the inspectors to Mexico?

 

Anyway, I really dont think that Edge design is forward enough, Would have liked to see them go for it more.

 

This isn't MKZ specific - it is very common to see lots full of cars around Detroit from all manufactures while quality checks are done or parts are replaced. I think people just noticed the MKZ hold as it was a bit longer. But in the past 6 month I have seen lots full of Fusion's, Escape, Edges, C-Max, F-150, Rams, Grand Cherokees, Caravans, ATS, SRX, Altima's. Usually they have a trailer or a drive-thru portable tent setup where the checks are done or parts are replaced on the vehicles.

 

Also Flat Rock is going to be making Lincolns so maybe this was a introduction to the type of checks they will be doing in the Future.

[silvrsvt]

Off Topic- Was it cheaper to send the MKZ's to Flat Rock than Sending the inspectors to Mexico?

 

Anyway, I really dont think that Edge design is forward enough, Would have liked to see them go for it more.

I have to agree with you on both comments...the new Edge looks decent from the sneak peak we got from this presentation, but I also agree its not a big change like the Explorer and Escape got when they got redone.

 

Also Flat Rock is going to be making Lincolns so maybe this was a introduction to the type of checks they will be doing in the Future.

 

Since when? MKZ production is staying in Mexico...unless your talking about MKS down the road

[BORG]

Some Fusion production is coming to Flatrock but MKZ will remain in Mexico.

 

Ford spoke about its temporary "luxury car" inspection center at Flatrock which was setup to deal with the initial quality check glut for the MKZ. This is actually still going on, but Ford indicated they had no plans to make this a permanent arrangement.

 

My local dealers actually have a very good supply now, both of the cars I initially held are still available after arriving a little more than two weeks ago. They aren't flying off the lots because there are no incentives on them, making them some of the most expensive Lincolns to buy or lease right now. If you want an MKZ, you are paying a premium to be the first (one of the reasons I was turned off by it, almost $200 per/month more to lease a car with the same MSRP as an MKX). Not that I wouldn't have paid that for a car I really wanted, but I just couldn't intellectually make that leap without feeling financially irresponsible when I knew I already liked the MKX. The dealers still aren't happy about that because they just yanked some of the steep incentives on the MKX and MKS, but at least they can deliver to a glut of anxious customers.

 

As for the new Edge, the reason it slipped by unnoticed is because it doesn't look remarkably different, which says allot. I'm sure in the full 360 it looks very different, but the fascia has some pretty standard Ford SUV characteristics. I really like it, most of that comes down to the fact they didn't make something unexpectedly weird and gratuitously unique just for the sake of doing so. The design is smart and attractive. I was afraid the Edge would look to the EcoSport and the hideous Territory for inspiration and turn the car into a grotesque alien fish abomination. I'm not a big fan of the bass mouth look permeating Ford and I'm glad to see the cars I buy are not adopting it, which gives me hope for the future. So in the end, I like the Edge because it escaped the new corporate ugly

Edited February 19, 2013 by BORG

[NickF1011]

I have to agree with you on both comments...the new Edge looks decent from the sneak peak we got from this presentation, but I also agree its not a big change like the Explorer and Escape got when they got redone.

 

 

Since when? MKZ production is staying in Mexico...unless your talking about MKS down the road

 

Yeah well, the Edge was already a generation ahead of the last Escape and Explorer stylistically when it was first launched. I didn't really expect anything drastic for the redesign.

[jasonj80]

 

 

Since when? MKZ production is staying in Mexico...unless your talking about MKS down the road

 

Model was not called out but a Lincoln vehicle was allocated to Flat Rock in the contract. I would assume the next MKS but who knows.

[SoonerLS]

Off Topic- Was it cheaper to send the MKZ's to Flat Rock than Sending the inspectors to Mexico?

It might be cheaper to send the inspectors to Hermosillo (but maybe not, depending on personnel and transport contracts), but that doesn't do as much to speed up production as shipping the cars off to Michigan. I'm betting their calculus was that it's better to have the MKZs awaiting final QC at an underutilized plant in Michigan rather than holding up an assembly line that's running at (or above) capacity trying to clear the backlog.