New Light & Medium Duty News

[Bob Rosadini]

I'm used to seeing an occasional UPS F-650 during my trips on I 495 which is the outer most beltway around  Boston but the other day I saw 4.  At least one was new as instead of old school mirrors it had the large "aero" mirrors supported by one lower mounting arm.

[Joe771476]

7 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

I'm used to seeing an occasional UPS F-650 during my trips on I 495 which is the outer most beltway around  Boston but the other day I saw 4.  At least one was new as instead of old school mirrors it had the large "aero" mirrors supported by one lower mounting arm.

If Ford does something stupid like abandoning the medium duty segment, then all credibility that they've accrued will be tossed out the window and they will kiss the class 1 thru 5 biz goodbye!

[7Mary3]

34 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

If Ford does something stupid like abandoning the medium duty segment, then all credibility that they've accrued will be tossed out the window and they will kiss the class 1 thru 5 biz goodbye!

 

I would like to see Ford be successful in class 6 and 7, but if they were to leave that market I doubt it would have any effect on their class 1-5 truck sales.  As I have said before, I work for one of the largest utility fleets in the western United States and we haven't bought a new F-650 in over 10 years, but we still buy plenty of class 2-5 Ford trucks.   

[Joe771476]

15 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I would like to see Ford be successful in class 6 and 7, but if they were to leave that market I doubt it would have any effect on their class 1-5 truck sales.  As I have said before, I work for one of the largest utility fleets in the western United States and we haven't bought a new F-650 in over 10 years, but we still buy plenty of class 2-5 Ford trucks.   

Glad to hear that, but here in CT back around 1997 when they found out they couldn't purchase anymore Ford class 8 trucks, the DOT and the MDC water agency noticeably started buying Chevy and Dodge cars and pickups. They had been used to buying all Fords from cars to class 8 because it was convenient to do business with the same make/brand and dealers for 50 years!  Before 1997, I can't remember seeing anything but Fords in the garages. They even bought Ford backhoes/loaders and mowing tractors!  That's how loyal to Ford they had been. Chrysler/Dodge gained the most because when customers went looking to a new source for heavy trucks in 1997, Daimler (Freightliner and Sterling) had merged with Chrysler around that time.  The Freightliner dealer(s) told customers, "Hey we sell smaller trucks and cars (Dodge) too!"  I think the main reason why anybody buys as many Ford light and medium duty as they do is because of the aluminum rust free bodies.

[7Mary3]

Keep in mind that most large fleets buy low bid, and beyond that there really isn't much 'loyalty' to any particular brand.  Chrysler up into the 70's was very successful in fleet sales, in those years they sold everything from cars to class 8 diesels and were very aggressive with pricing and incentives.  You saw a lot of Dodges, both cars and trucks, in fleets back then.  It is also true that at one time Ford, GM, and Chrysler all sold cars and trucks up through class 8 and that was something of an advantage for fleets in that they only had to deal with one manufacturer and dealer network.  However, those days are long past as commercial truck sales and service is so specialized customers for those vehicle want to deal with dedicated truck dealers, not car dealers that sell a few trucks on the side.  I would have to disagree wih your point about DaimlerChrysler and Freightliner.  I never once saw a combined Dodge Ram/Freightliner dealer, nor could you ever buy parts or get service for a Freightliner at a Dodge/Ram dealer, maybe unless it was one of those Sterling Bullitt trucks.  The fact that Freightliner was part of DaimlerChrysler was invisible to the customers of either make.  Ram truck sales dramatically improved during those years because their trucks got a lot more competitive, not because of the corporate tie with Freightliner!  Also, did you realize that for many years Renault owned both AMC/Jeep and Mack Truck?  I doubt that had any affect on Jeep sales.  I have a little experience in railroading.  GM used to build better than half of the diesel-electric locomotives in this country (probably the world too) and the parts for those locomotives often came in GM boxes.  I always wanted to try ordering a locomotive part from a Chevy dealer just to see what would happen!   

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Keep in mind that most large fleets buy low bid, and beyond that there really isn't much 'loyalty' to any particular brand.  Chrysler up into the 70's was very successful in fleet sales, in those years they sold everything from cars to class 8 diesels and were very aggressive with pricing and incentives.  You saw a lot of Dodges, both cars and trucks, in fleets back then.  It is also true that at one time Ford, GM, and Chrysler all sold cars and trucks up through class 8 and that was something of an advantage for fleets in that they only had to deal with one manufacturer and dealer network.  However, those days are long past as commercial truck sales and service is so specialized customers for those vehicle want to deal with dedicated truck dealers, not car dealers that sell a few trucks on the side.  I would have to disagree wih your point about DaimlerChrysler and Freightliner.  I never once saw a combined Dodge Ram/Freightliner dealer, nor could you ever buy parts or get service for a Freightliner at a Dodge/Ram dealer, maybe unless it was one of those Sterling Bullitt trucks.  The fact that Freightliner was part of DaimlerChrysler was invisible to the customers of either make.  Ram truck sales dramatically improved during those years because their trucks got a lot more competitive, not because of the corporate tie with Freightliner!  Also, did you realize that for many years Renault owned both AMC/Jeep and Mack Truck?  I doubt that had any affect on Jeep sales.  I have a little experience in railroading.  GM used to build better than half of the diesel-electric locomotives in this country (probably the world too) and the parts for those locomotives often came in GM boxes.  I always wanted to try ordering a locomotive part from a Chevy dealer just to see what would happen!   

Hah How true on the Renault connection.  As for your railroad days, talk about consolidation.  As a bit of a buff I remember the Alco, FairbanksMorse,GE, EMD days.  When I was in college my winter/"spring" breaks were spent working in a wholesale beef plant.  We got swinging beef delivered by truck and rail.  NY, NH & Hartford RR. RS-1 Alcos.  Green  & Orange!

[SoonerLS]

On 3/23/2025 at 4:58 PM, Joe771476 said:

If Ford does something stupid like abandoning the medium duty segment, then all credibility that they've accrued will be tossed out the window and they will kiss the class 1 thru 5 biz goodbye!

You really think that stopping an annual sales volume that doesn’t even amount to two weeks of production at DTP is going to materially affect F-Series sales?

[Joe771476]

On 3/24/2025 at 1:36 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Keep in mind that most large fleets buy low bid, and beyond that there really isn't much 'loyalty' to any particular brand.  Chrysler up into the 70's was very successful in fleet sales, in those years they sold everything from cars to class 8 diesels and were very aggressive with pricing and incentives.  You saw a lot of Dodges, both cars and trucks, in fleets back then.  It is also true that at one time Ford, GM, and Chrysler all sold cars and trucks up through class 8 and that was something of an advantage for fleets in that they only had to deal with one manufacturer and dealer network.  However, those days are long past as commercial truck sales and service is so specialized customers for those vehicle want to deal with dedicated truck dealers, not car dealers that sell a few trucks on the side.  I would have to disagree wih your point about DaimlerChrysler and Freightliner.  I never once saw a combined Dodge Ram/Freightliner dealer, nor could you ever buy parts or get service for a Freightliner at a Dodge/Ram dealer, maybe unless it was one of those Sterling Bullitt trucks.  The fact that Freightliner was part of DaimlerChrysler was invisible to the customers of either make.  Ram truck sales dramatically improved during those years because their trucks got a lot more competitive, not because of the corporate tie with Freightliner!  Also, did you realize that for many years Renault owned both AMC/Jeep and Mack Truck?  I doubt that had any affect on Jeep sales.  I have a little experience in railroading.  GM used to build better than half of the diesel-electric locomotives in this country (probably the world too) and the parts for those locomotives often came in GM boxes.  I always wanted to try ordering a locomotive part from a Chevy dealer just to see what would happen!   

You're right, there were no combination Freightliner/Dodge dealers that I know of. But it doesn't mean they couldn't send them to the other one. Well like I said, the MDC garage was loaded with Fords until around late 1990's/2000's when the class 8 biz was bought by Daimler/Freightliner and rebranded Sterling. Did you notice that the "S" was still squeezed into an oval logo? A Ford stipulation? Anyway, when I started seeing non-Ford class 8 trucks in the MDC garage/lot, I began to see Dodge and also Chevy light trucks.  Ditto for CTDOT. Coincidence?  Maybe.  I think I noticed the same thing with MASSDOT. GM made everything back then! Detroit Diesel, Allison and Electromotive. Ford and GM are shells of what they used to be. And why is the logo for General Motors now gm instead of GM?  Yeah I know, they wanted it to be more mellow or inclusive or modest or whatever. Talk about emasculation! Hideous. It's GM, not gm. I'm a Ford guy but come on!  Ford just sold a bunch of F750's to the CTDOT which had been buying Freightliners and Internationals for the last 25 years. I can't believe that Ford OUTBID them!

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

You're right, there were no combination Freightliner/Dodge dealers that I know of. But it doesn't mean they couldn't send them to the other one. Well like I said, the MDC garage was loaded with Fords until around late 1990's/2000's when the class 8 biz was bought by Daimler/Freightliner and rebranded Sterling. Did you notice that the "S" was still squeezed into an oval logo? A Ford stipulation? Anyway, when I started seeing non-Ford class 8 trucks in the MDC garage/lot, I began to see Dodge and also Chevy light trucks.  Ditto for CTDOT. Coincidence?  Maybe.  I think I noticed the same thing with MASSDOT. GM made everything back then! Detroit Diesel, Allison and Electromotive. Ford and GM are shells of what they used to be. And why is the logo for General Motors now gm instead of GM?  Yeah I know, they wanted it to be more mellow or inclusive or modest or whatever. Talk about emasculation! Hideous. It's GM, not gm. I'm a Ford guy but come on!  Ford just sold a bunch of F750's to the CTDOT which had been buying Freightliners and Internationals for the last 25 years. I can't believe that Ford OUTBID them!

Joe,

My bet is those 750's are gas powered  jobs meant for light duty plow work-intersections, ramps, parking areas  or maintenance work-just like Mass DOT that has similar 750s.  Biggest reason Ford gets these orders I would bet is they are far cheaper than any F'liner or International as up until now at  Ford offers the only gas engine in a class 6 or 7 conventional cab.

With the release of the 6.7 Cummins gas engine that has changed, although I would have to believe that it will be a more costly option than a 7.3 powered 650/750 . 

 

But some  agencies might be willing to pay the premium for that engine for the sake of fleet commonality given the class 8 trucks in their fleet.

While I don't know what the 7.3's torque curves are, the Cummins gas engine does put out significant torque at lower RPM.  That capability might justify its premium over a 7.3.

Also as long as  Ford refuses to offer air brakes in a gas powered 650/750 that will be another benefit the Cummins provides in a class 6, 7 truck. 

[Joe771476]

On 3/26/2025 at 9:50 AM, Bob Rosadini said:

Joe,

My bet is those 750's are gas powered  jobs meant for light duty plow work-intersections, ramps, parking areas  or maintenance work-just like Mass DOT that has similar 750s.  Biggest reason Ford gets these orders I would bet is they are far cheaper than any F'liner or International as up until now at  Ford offers the only gas engine in a class 6 or 7 conventional cab.

With the release of the 6.7 Cummins gas engine that has changed, although I would have to believe that it will be a more costly option than a 7.3 powered 650/750 . 

 

But some  agencies might be willing to pay the premium for that engine for the sake of fleet commonality given the class 8 trucks in their fleet.

While I don't know what the 7.3's torque curves are, the Cummins gas engine does put out significant torque at lower RPM.  That capability might justify its premium over a 7.3.

Also as long as  Ford refuses to offer air brakes in a gas powered 650/750 that will be another benefit the Cummins provides in a class 6, 7 truck. 

I think those DOT trucks are diesel. I have a buddy at CTDOT, I'll ask him.  Those F750's are plowing and sanding. How much more can they ask of them?

[Joe771476]

 

Kenworth Announces Sunset of the Iconic W900, T800, and C500 Models | Kenworth

 

Ford is back in the tractor biz!  Well sort of!

 

Farmer uses Ford F-250 pickup truck for plowing and it makes a perfect tractor

[twintornados]

On 3/29/2025 at 5:40 PM, Joe771476 said:

Ford is back in the tractor biz!  Well sort of!

 

Farmer uses Ford F-250 pickup truck for plowing and it makes a perfect tractor

 

Of course, the article doesn't really specify that he is using an 86-87 F-250, but man, watch that beast go!!

 

 

[GearheadGrrrl]

Nebraska Tractor Tests used to review trucks advertised for tractor work like Jeep, Land Rover, and Unimog. They didn't do too well against real tractors because they simply didn't have the low speed gearing and suspension reacting to ground engagement loads probably didn't help either. That said, for light tractor work it'll probably work OK.

[Joe771476]

Looks like a first generation Ford LTL9000!

 

Troopers nab commercial vehicle driver 'trying to make it from Iowa to Tennessee' for several serious violations

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Looks like a first generation Ford LTL9000!

 

Troopers nab commercial vehicle driver 'trying to make it from Iowa to Tennessee' for several serious violations

Amazing that  there are idiots out there that think in this day and age they could get away with something like this.  Plenty of LTL's still working up here-and most of them look like show trucks!

[7Mary3]

23 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Plenty of LTL's still working up here-and most of them look like show trucks!

 

In California, the only pre-2011 medium/heavy trucks you see outside of a truck show are GM Topkicks and Kodiaks and Ford F-Series with gas engines.  But, have to admit, the air is a lot cleaner around here these days. 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

In California, the only pre-2011 medium/heavy trucks you see outside of a truck show are GM Topkicks and Kodiaks and Ford F-Series with gas engines.  But, have to admit, the air is a lot cleaner around here these days. 

7M,  When that became official the export market must have been booming?

 

Even with our winter time salt conditions that raise hell on vehicles there are still a ton of pre 2011's on the road.I had commercial plates on my B-61x...1956..up until two years ago.  Registered for 35,000 lbs. Only issue I ever had was suddenly on my plate renewal they asked for a DOT number.  I had a battle over that as I was not a business, I just happened to have a big truck that I used to maintain my property, my kids property, charity work at fairgrounds etc.

Finally got in touch with a live person at DOT in DC and his attitude was..."we have told these state agencies we don't want the system cluttered with guys like you".  He put me in touch with the right Fed DOT guy in Mass. and in turn I passed info to my rep in State Legislature and suddenly my renewal showed up.  When I switched to Antique plates, I got insurance through Hagerty saving about $1000 in insurance and about another $1000 in registration costs.

 

Do miss the sound of the turbo though when its loaded😎   Think I may sell it and put the money in my 68 Bronco.

[Joe771476]

The Truck That Started It All: Americas First Pickup and Its Legacy | TORK US

[7Mary3]

I depends who you ask.  I don't think this one was the first either, but it's from 1917.  Based on the standard U.S. Army ambulance of the first World War:

 

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/hf19/lots/r0067-1917-gmc-model-16-ton-express/

[twintornados]

5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I depends who you ask.  I don't think this one was the first either, but it's from 1917.  Based on the standard U.S. Army ambulance of the first World War:

 

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/hf19/lots/r0067-1917-gmc-model-16-ton-express/

 

Basically, the "stripped chassis" of the era...the Ford was the first "factory built" light pickup....

[Bob Rosadini]

6 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Basically, the "stripped chassis" of the era...the Ford was the first "factory built" light pickup....

Agree on "factory ..light pickup".  That GMC that 7M posted is a beauty in any case..says 3/4 ton but it looks heavier than that.

If you want to see something interesting go to ..Americanheritagemuseum.org

This is an unbelieveable museum nearby in Hudson/Stow Ma. 

 

Click on "exhibits" and then "WWI Trench Experience".  After you go in the main entrance, this is  the first exhibit/show you will see-you have the option of being in that trench or viewing from an upper balcony.  But it is a "show" and you are then listening to the shelling etc. Not something you would take a 5 yr old to see.

Note it identifies the ambulance  as a Model T..which I thought was the predominant WWI ambulance.

[Joe771476]

Six minutes of fun! It took place in Lynnville MA. A couple Macks, a C-series Ford.

 

(537) 40th Annual MAFAA Fire Truck Parade (2017) - YouTube

[Joe771476]

Check it out.

 

(571) 1956 Ford C500 COE Marmon Herrington 4x4 Open Cab Range Tender Fire Truck - YouTube

[Bob Rosadini]

18 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Check it out.

 

(571) 1956 Ford C500 COE Marmon Herrington 4x4 Open Cab Range Tender Fire Truck - YouTube

Wow,  I would have to say impressive..all the little details that make sense.  Like the ability to replenish the Indian pumps.. not one faucet but four!  Only thing IMO missing?  Adequate "brush bars" to protect the vehicle pushing through the woods.

Only other "wildfire" truck more far out than this one is a C series that was in Texas-not sure where it was built, but it was powered by a V-903 Cummins.

Not quite sure how they managed to fit that under the cab of a C model but they did.

[7Mary3]

Gorgeous restoration!