New Light & Medium Duty News

[Rick73]

On 1/22/2025 at 8:15 PM, 7Mary3 said:

Wait a minute, 'fordauthority' might have it wrong.  Essex might be building the 6.8L along with the 7.3L, not the Powerstroke.

 

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/ford-begins-prep-work-for-new-engine-line-at-essex-engine

Is it possible Windsor Star may have the “new engine line” part of news correct, but assumption on engine details being a 6.8/7.3 liter pushrod V8 wrong?  I don’t see a direct quote from Ford stating that it’s a Godzilla line, though I may have missed it.  I can just as easily interpret the first few paragraphs to mean it’s an all-new V8 engine for Super Duty pickups.  As expensive as Super Duty pickups have become, I could see Ford developing a new DOHC V8, particularly to support upcoming hybrid Super Duty.

 

One option could be based partly on 6.8/7.3 displacement range, which already share some dimensions with old 6.2L SOHC V8.  Basically a dual-cam long-stroke modern 6.2 in 7-liter range.

 

Another possibility could be a long-stroke taller-deck Coyote around 6 liters in displacement.  Also to support hybrid Super Duty.  Main difference with previous speculation above being smaller bore spacing, limiting overall displacement to approximately 6 liters.

 

 

“Despite the uncertainty brought by President Donald Trump’s tariff threats, Ford Motor Company is pushing ahead with the expansion of its engine production capacity at its Essex Engine Plant.

 

The company is currently doing cement work in a vacant portion of the plant in preparation to install the machinery needed to create a new V-8 engine line.

 

The line will give Ford the extra capacity needed to meet the needs of the Oakville Assembly Plant, which is being retooled to begin making F-Series Super Duty trucks in 2026, and its sprawling Kentucky Truck Assembly complex.”

 

[7Mary3]

I have not seen the 7.3L/6.8L specifically mentioned in the articles about the new engine line either.  I rather doubt if it is a new engine that it would be a larger displacement derivative of the 6.2L 'Boss'.  A 7L+ version of the 'Boss' was being considered but even with SOHC heads the engine was too tall and wide to fit in the Super Duty platform, and that is why 'Godzilla' went back to pushrods.     

[Rick73]

IIRC Ford was able to fit 5.4L DOHC in Mustang and Navigator, and that engine was a raised-deck longer-stroke variant of 4.6L Modular.  The original 5.4L was later enlarged to 5.8L by increasing bore diameter.  Since Coyote head design makes engine narrower and lower than original 4.6L DOHC, which significantly improves packaging, it would seem logical that a raised-deck Coyote could fit in larger vehicles like Super Duty pickups.  Since Ford has increased bore up to 94 mm, using a deck height similar to 5.4L V8 could yield a 6L Coyote variant.  With a slightly taller deck height than original 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10, to increase stroke/bore ratio for added torque, fuel efficiency, and reduced emissions, a displacement of at least 6.2L may be possible without making engine any larger than original 5.4L DOHC V8.

 

I personally prefer Godzilla V8 simplicity and lower cost, but also think that if Ford is planning a Hybrid or other electrified Super Duty in next couple of years, a long-stroke Coyote variant may be a possibility; among others of course since it’s all speculation at this time.

[akirby]

Is this true?  WTF?

 

[jpd80]

On 1/25/2025 at 4:17 AM, 7Mary3 said:

I have wondered how many 7.3L's the Windsor Annex line is capable of producing, Ford made it sound like it was a low-volume operation.  But now with the 6.2L replaced by the 6.8L and more applications for the 7.3L it's not too hard to see the need to add a line for the 7.3L in the Essex facility.  I wonder if the Essex line will eventually replace the Windsor Annex line.

 

Regardless of where Ford builds the 7.3L, they really need to get a handle on the cam/lifter issue many of these engines have.  I am afraid the 7.3L is starting to get a reputation......

 

Yes, the 6.8L has a shorter stroke.  It's supposed to have a cast iron crankshaft as opposed to the 7.3L's forged crank.  The other big differece is Ford will not let you have a 7.3L in a F-250 or F-350 XL unless you buy both STX Appearance Package and the XL Driver Assist Package for $9645 on top of the $1000 for the 7.3L engine.  That's a awfully expensive crankshaft.  To be fair the 7.3L also comes with the larger 10R140 transmission while the 6.8L uses the smaller (and more reliable from what I am seeing) 10R100. 

 

You know, the best driveline combination the Super Duty ever had from a reliability and cost-of-ownership standpoint was the 6.2L with the 6R140 transmission.  I am sorry they are both gone now. 

Also, 6.8 V8 was limited so only given to base model versions in F Series and E Series. Now it looks like 6.8/7.3 is added to Essex where the 5.0 is made - probably more room there and trying to increase Windsor plant.

 

The 6.2 Boss was an enigma, so close yet so far. Ford had intended 5.8/6.2/7.0 versions of the Boss, imagine if they skipped 6.2 and had just built 5.8 and 7.0 versions. That would have allowed Ford to drop the 5.4 and 6.8 Mods years earlier.

 

Canadian SD production may be a way of giving Canada and ROW markets trucks that are separate to US production exports.

That may be less political for Canada, Mexico and South America……

Edited January 26 by jpd80

[7Mary3]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Is this true?  WTF?

 

 

No, but that seems close to some old trucks I have driven.  Or tried to drive, for that matter!

[7Mary3]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Also, 6.8 V8 was limited so only given to base model versions in F Series and E Series. Now it looks like 6.8/7.3 is added to Essex where the 5.0 is made - probably more room there and trying to increase Windsor plant.

 

The 6.2 Boss was an enigma, so close yet so far. Ford had intended 5.8/6.2/7.0 versions of the Boss, imagine if they skipped 6.2 and had just built 5.8 and 7.0 versions. That would have allowed Ford to drop the 5.4 and 6.8 Mods years earlier.

 

Canadian SD production may be a way of giving Canada and ROW markets trucks that are separate to US production exports.

That may be less political for Canada, Mexico and South America……

 

The 2 things that killed the 'Boss' engine were its external dimensions and cooling issues in high-GVW vehicles.  The 5.8L got no better fuel economy than the 6.2L, and the 7.0L couldn't replace the 6.8L V-10. 

[Bob Rosadini]

14 hours ago, Rick73 said:

IIRC Ford was able to fit 5.4L DOHC in Mustang and Navigator, and that engine was a raised-deck longer-stroke variant of 4.6L Modular.  The original 5.4L was later enlarged to 5.8L by increasing bore diameter.  Since Coyote head design makes engine narrower and lower than original 4.6L DOHC, which significantly improves packaging, it would seem logical that a raised-deck Coyote could fit in larger vehicles like Super Duty pickups.  Since Ford has increased bore up to 94 mm, using a deck height similar to 5.4L V8 could yield a 6L Coyote variant.  With a slightly taller deck height than original 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10, to increase stroke/bore ratio for added torque, fuel efficiency, and reduced emissions, a displacement of at least 6.2L may be possible without making engine any larger than original 5.4L DOHC V8.

 

I personally prefer Godzilla V8 simplicity and lower cost, but also think that if Ford is planning a Hybrid or other electrified Super Duty in next couple of years, a long-stroke Coyote variant may be a possibility; among others of course since it’s all speculation at this time.    AMEN

 

[Rick73]

13 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Yeah, for an ICE pickup I’d take Godzilla any day, but honestly don’t see either 6.8- or 7.3-liter pushrod V8 working well in hybrid applications.  My speculation that it may be a larger-displacement DOHC V8 is mainly based on expecting that Ford may electrify Super Duty in near future.  I can’t even think of a single hybrid vehicle today that uses a pushrod engine.

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Yeah, for an ICE pickup I’d take Godzilla any day, but honestly don’t see either 6.8- or 7.3-liter pushrod V8 working well in hybrid applications.  My speculation that it may be a larger-displacement DOHC V8 is mainly based on expecting that Ford may electrify Super Duty in near future.  I can’t even think of a single hybrid vehicle today that uses a pushrod engine.

 

This statement rings true as all one has to do is look at Escape and Escape hybrid. The "regular" Escape uses a 1.5L 3 cylinder turbocharged motor while Escape hybrid uses a 2.5L 4 cylinder normally aspirated DOHC motor.

[jpd80]

17 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

The 2 things that killed the 'Boss' engine were its external dimensions and cooling issues in high-GVW vehicles.  The 5.8L got no better fuel economy than the 6.2L, and the 7.0L couldn't replace the 6.8L V-10. 

At the time, Ford was pushing 6.7 Powerstroke diesel sales in MD so the failure of the 6.2 in MD engine test was unfortunate but it was deemed cheaper to resurrect the 6.8 V10 for MD use than complete development of the 7.0 V8 Boss - remembering that it was already provisioned for in the 5.4 plant switchable equipment (roughly four hours to change over).

Edited January 26 by jpd80

[Oac98]

On 1/25/2025 at 8:53 PM, jpd80 said:

Also, 6.8 V8 was limited so only given to base model versions in F Series and E Series. Now it looks like 6.8/7.3 is added to Essex where the 5.0 is made - probably more room there and trying to increase Windsor plant.

 

The 6.2 Boss was an enigma, so close yet so far. Ford had intended 5.8/6.2/7.0 versions of the Boss, imagine if they skipped 6.2 and had just built 5.8 and 7.0 versions. That would have allowed Ford to drop the 5.4 and 6.8 Mods years earlier.

 

Canadian SD production may be a way of giving Canada and ROW markets trucks that are separate to US production exports.

That may be less political for Canada, Mexico and South America……

I’m glad to see Ford is forging ahead with this project. Construction has started at stamping plant and large piling machines and excavators and dump trucks are on site doing prep work. The main plant is empty and paint shop is progressing. Still a long way to go before we go back. 

[Oac98]

On 1/25/2025 at 8:53 PM, jpd80 said:

Also, 6.8 V8 was limited so only given to base model versions in F Series and E Series. Now it looks like 6.8/7.3 is added to Essex where the 5.0 is made - probably more room there and trying to increase Windsor plant.

 

The 6.2 Boss was an enigma, so close yet so far. Ford had intended 5.8/6.2/7.0 versions of the Boss, imagine if they skipped 6.2 and had just built 5.8 and 7.0 versions. That would have allowed Ford to drop the 5.4 and 6.8 Mods years earlier.

 

Canadian SD production may be a way of giving Canada and ROW markets trucks that are separate to US production exports.

That may be less political for Canada, Mexico and South America……

I agree with you on your reasoning in regards to Canadian and ROW markets.

[rmc523]

On 1/25/2025 at 5:44 PM, akirby said:

Is this true?  WTF?

 

 

lol - how in the world do you even figure out where it is?

[Rick73]

On 1/25/2025 at 7:53 PM, jpd80 said:

Also, 6.8 V8 was limited so only given to base model versions in F Series and E Series. Now it looks like 6.8/7.3 is added to Essex where the 5.0 is made - probably more room there and trying to increase Windsor plant.

Did Ford announce they would use 6.8L V8 in E-Series, or are they using in other markets outside US?  I recall that when Ford replaced the 6.2L V8 and 6.8L V10 in E-Series, they used two versions of 7.3L Godzilla V8.  I think they called them Premium and Economy, though the price difference was so minor that most buyers went with Premium.  As I recall the Economy variant was dropped a year or two ago.  However, I don’t recall ever seeing the 6.8L Godzilla V8 in E-Series specs.  It would seem a logical replacement for the previous Economy engine, but preliminary 2026 E-Series specs still only show 7.3L Premium.

[jpd80]

16 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Did Ford announce they would use 6.8L V8 in E-Series, or are they using in other markets outside US?  I recall that when Ford replaced the 6.2L V8 and 6.8L V10 in E-Series, they used two versions of 7.3L Godzilla V8.  I think they called them Premium and Economy, though the price difference was so minor that most buyers went with Premium.  As I recall the Economy variant was dropped a year or two ago.  However, I don’t recall ever seeing the 6.8L Godzilla V8 in E-Series specs.  It would seem a logical replacement for the previous Economy engine, but preliminary 2026 E-Series specs still only show 7.3L Premium.

Limited production of the 6.8 has been stopping its use in anything other than F Series, it has been anticipated for several years and the 7.3 base engine seems to be covering things nicely. I think the idea was to eventually offer a more fuel efficient versions but if gas prices stay low, it won’t make much difference.

[twintornados]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

....I think the idea was to eventually offer a more fuel efficient versions but if gas prices stay low, it won’t make much difference.

 

[jpd80]

D’OH, I’m missing the obvious,

it just occurred to me that the extra Godzilla production would be all about more 7.3s, not the 6.8, buyers love the 7.3 and Ford can’t build enough of them.

[Rick73]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Limited production of the 6.8 has been stopping its use in anything other than F Series, it has been anticipated for several years and the 7.3 base engine seems to be covering things nicely. I think the idea was to eventually offer a more fuel efficient versions but if gas prices stay low, it won’t make much difference.

As I recall, the 7.3L “Premium” V8 was the standard on E-Series, and the “Economy” version received a credit of something like -$350 IIRC.  While researching buying a small motorhome built on E-Series, I could not find a single one that had the Economy engine.  I later read the Economy engine was “cheaper” to buy, but not marketed to save fuel.  Build differences were minor, though I don’t recall what they included.

 

The newer 6.8L version makes a little sense for SD pickups that may drive around unloaded much of the time, but for larger trucks and E-Series box trucks and motorhomes that weigh much more and also have much higher drag than a pickup, the 6.8L makes little sense to me.  It’s not going to save significant gas other than maybe when idling.  I’m curious if idea for a 6.8L V8 by destroying a 7.3L came more from technical or sales/marketing. 🤔

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

D’OH, I’m missing the obvious,

it just occurred to me that the extra Godzilla production would be all about more 7.3s, not the 6.8, buyers love the 7.3 and Ford can’t build enough of them.

As manufacturers evaluate options to replace diesel engines, I thought Ford would consider stroking 7.3L to even larger displacement; maybe as high as +/- 8L.  Instead they did the very opposite with 6.8L though for a different reason.

[Bob Rosadini]

Amazing to me, thinking old school and cubic inches, a 352/360 was adequate in a 250 while today a 6.8-414 cubes is standard.  And the 7.3-445 cubes has I believe  more HP/Torque than the old Super Duty 477 that was the middle engine in a T-950 tandem!  I guess driver expectations sure have changed-to saying nothing of climbing a grade with a 5 speed box and a 4 speed auxiliary behind it😎

[7Mary3]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

D’OH, I’m missing the obvious,

it just occurred to me that the extra Godzilla production would be all about more 7.3s, not the 6.8, buyers love the 7.3 and Ford can’t build enough of them.

 

I suspect a substantial number of 7.3L engines Ford produces are for warranty replacement.  When a 7.3L experiences cam/lifter failure under warranty, Ford replaces the complete engine as the failure typically puts a lot of metal debris into the oil.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I suspect a substantial number of 7.3L engines Ford produces are for warranty replacement.  When a 7.3L experiences cam/lifter failure under warranty, Ford replaces the complete engine as the failure typically puts a lot of metal debris into the oil.

Are they failing that frequently?

[7Mary3]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Are they failing that frequently?

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1664537-7-3-godzilla-catastrophic-failure.html

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoBV12M2BUs

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdODNCV1dis

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18mq8l71J9U&t=388s

 

An internet search of 'Ford 7.3L cam and lifter failure' will produce a number of results.  The problem, unfortunately for the owner, often does not manifest itself until around 60,000 miles and the warranty has expired.  It would seem that the cause of the the problem has been somewhat hard to pinpoint, though I suspect Ford was not paying much attention to it initially.  When the problem first became apparent around 2021 in high mile 7.3L's (particularly those with high idle time) it seemed to me that the most plausible explaination was there was an issue with the camshaft or lifter roller material.  As the number of 7.3L's in service became greater in the ensuing years the issue also became more common, despite reported changes to the cam and lifters (new part numbers?).  Presently I have seen reports of cam and lifter failures happening in 7.3L's up to the 2022 model year so it would seem that whatever was done up to that point was ineffective, however there has recently been a TSB issued for an ECM re-flash for certain 7.3L equipped vehicles that increases oil pressure at idle through the variable output oil pump.  Oil pressure certainly could be an issue causing excess cam/lifter wear, hopefully the TSB will correct the issue.  Personally I wonder if the issue isn't at least in part caused by the 7.3L's aggresive cam profile (.5" lift on intake with a steep ramp), and a tall valve spring.  The 7.3L reportedly uses the exact same lifter that non-AFM GM LS/LT V-8's have used for years.           

Edited January 29 by 7Mary3

[twintornados]

13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

D’OH, I’m missing the obvious,

it just occurred to me that the extra Godzilla production would be all about more 7.3s, not the 6.8, buyers love the 7.3 and Ford can’t build enough of them.

 

I can see more 6.8L in lower end E-Series to free up 7.3L production for F-Series.