Ford ratings in Consumer Reports, below average reliability

[nebelkopf]

I can't remember the last time I burned a disc for music. While it may still be useful for some, disc media is going the way of the cassette tape in short order.

 

I guess (remember, I'm an old fart)! Actually, I'm not interested in new burns, but wanted to use older (heavy metal) disks already burned. I do burns on 32 G sticks, and plug the pod-- so I guess not so old!

[nebelkopf]

MFT just needs refinement, and SIMPLIFICATION....seems the designers got carried away with gimmicks, macros and subscreens, the Clarion system in comparison was simpler and thus veiwed as more "user friendly"......sometimes I think the publics thirst for "gadgets" is counter intuitive...an opinion mimicked by CR's criticism...CR has a somewhat flawed propensity to applaud simplicity while ignoring what CONSUMERS are demanding....

 

Absolutely agree: Software, Software, Software! My only problem with CR (and others), is when they equate the rating of the entire vehicle based on MFT.

[NickF1011]

MFT just needs refinement, and SIMPLIFICATION....seems the designers got carried away with gimmicks, macros and subscreens, the Clarion system in comparison was simpler and thus veiwed as more "user friendly"......sometimes I think the publics thirst for "gadgets" is counter intuitive...an opinion mimicked by CR's criticism...CR has a somewhat flawed propensity to applaud simplicity while ignoring what CONSUMERS are demanding....

How much simpler can you make it? Almost every function you use on a regular basis is still on the main screen or directly on the main subsystem screen one layer below it.

 

The one thing that I'm almost certain will change in future designs though is the return of some physical switches/knobs to the console below the touch screen. The capacitive buttons (particularly their small size) are my biggest gripe with MFT in my Edge. They are difficult to locate at a glance and press the right number of times. The touchscreen portion works pretty much exactly as I expected it to. However, I think going back and forth between capacitive and resistive interfaces causes a lot of the frustration in terms of response to input. It's not that they don't work (for most owners anyway), it's that they work differently right next to one another.

Edited May 24, 2013 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

How much simpler can you make it? Almost every function you use on a regular basis is still on the main screen or directly on the main subsystem screen one layer below it.

 

The one thing that I'm almost certain will change in future designs though is the return of some physical switches/knobs to the console below the touch screen. The capacitive buttons (particularly their small size) are my biggest gripe with MFT in my Edge. They are difficult to locate at a glance and press the right number of times. The touchscreen portion works pretty much exactly as I expected it to. However, I think going back and forth between capacitive and resistive interfaces causes a lot of the frustration in terms of response to input. It's not that they don't work (for most owners anyway), it's that they work differently right next to one another.

simpler the better IMO.. the screen is berarable, and ok IMO.....and buttons and knobs definitely need adressing....as does the voice recognition which at times can be infuriating....theres no doubt though, it WILL get better.....

[Deanh]

Absolutely agree: Software, Software, Software! My only problem with CR (and others), is when they equate the rating of the entire vehicle based on MFT.

bingo...and thus my CR angst........

[NickF1011]

simpler the better IMO.. the screen is berarable, and ok IMO.....and buttons and knobs definitely need adressing....as does the voice recognition which at times can be infuriating....theres no doubt though, it WILL get better.....

Simpler how? Examples? If anything, I don't think there's enough on the home screen, particularly in the climate quadrant.

 

As for the voice recognition, I find it to be faaaar better now than it was when first released. I think that's really a limit of the technology at this point though. Even things like Siri and Google Voice are still relatively hit-or-miss in terms of translating voice inputs.

[nebelkopf]

How much simpler can you make it? Almost every function you use on a regular basis is still on the main screen or directly on the main subsystem screen one layer below it.The one thing that I'm almost certain will change in future designs though is the return of some physical switches/knobs to the console below the touch screen. The capacitive buttons (particularly their small size) are my biggest gripe with MFT in my Edge. They are difficult to locate at a glance and press the right number of times. The touchscreen portion works pretty much exactly as I expected it to. However, I think going back and forth between capacitive and resistive interfaces causes a lot of the frustration in terms of response to input. It's not that they don't work (for most owners anyway), it's that they work differently right next to one another.[/

 

 

The iPod world is getting used to "touch, roll, finger-manipulate" of capacitive screens. Would it be easier if the system used only glass capacitive touch screens (at least that negates some of the trigger press problems of the plastic resistive touch display)? Always some problems pop up-- press with gloves, etc. No perfect world yet!

 

[Deanh]

Simpler how? Examples? If anything, I don't think there's enough on the home screen, particularly in the climate quadrant.

 

As for the voice recognition, I find it to be faaaar better now than it was when first released. I think that's really a limit of the technology at this point though. Even things like Siri and Google Voice are still relatively hit-or-miss in terms of translating voice inputs.

I invite you to come on down and demonstrate the system on a regular basis, the very fact it takes so long underlines my statement....I almost feel people start nodding off.....and sure enough even the second visit isnt enough...you have to understand Nick, a majority of people arent as tech savy as you ( I will include myself in that gender ) and seriousl ARENT interested in 90 % of the features, its mental overload to most, which makes me question why half of the features are even there to begin with.....I would suggest a bare basics system with reflash "upgrades" to those that deem certain features, considered gimmicks by most, necessary....and I will EMPHATICALLY say, the voice recognition is sub-par, the biggest complaint I get is the voice/ Nav system....then again, lot of Hispanic/ exotic street names here in So Cal....

[papilgee4evaeva]

I'm 6'-1/2" and wear a 34" inseam, Borg, and i fit into a Taurus with well over 2" to spare in the foot wells, and it appears that's where most of our height difference lies.

 

 

I'm 6"3", with a 36" inseam. I can fit in most cars comfortable, even a Fiesta (headroom is better than a Focus). But the MKS is the most baffling design I have run into yet. It's like an SUV foot-well has been married to a conventional sedan. Therefore NOTHING lines up right. I can't get close enough to the wheel because the footwell is to short, and the wheel can't come close enough to me. I can't raise the seat up high enough to absorb my legs because my head hits the ceiling, and reclining back takes me further away from the dashboard. I mean something is wrong when I can fit more comfortably in an MKZ than an MKS.

 

Huh. Thought both of y'all were shorter, especially you, BORG. I got you confused with Nick. My bad.

 

RE: the Taurus/MKS, I (at an admittedly shorter 5'10") have had space in the car no matter what. But it is shaped oddly up front.

[nebelkopf]

I invite you to come on down and demonstrate the system on a regular basis, the very fact it takes so long underlines my statement....I almost feel people start nodding off.....and sure enough even the second visit isnt enough...you have to understand Nick, a majority of people arent as tech savy as you ( I will include myself in that gender ) and seriousl ARENT interested in 90 % of the features, its mental overload to most, which makes me question why half of the features are even there to begin with.....I would suggest a bare basics system with reflash "upgrades" to those that deem certain features, considered gimmicks by most, necessary....and I will EMPHATICALLY say, the voice recognition is sub-par, the biggest complaint I get is the voice/ Nav system....then again, lot of Hispanic/ exotic street names here in So Cal....

 

Solution? As with many user systems, select "basic, competent, expert" or some such. We do it on the Hybrid driver screen.

[Deanh]

Solution? As with many user systems, select "basic, competent, expert" or some such. We do it on the Hybrid driver screen.

Not a bad idea at all.........

[Hugh]

I really liked the look of the 1st gen of the SONY setup and there were complaints of interface which have been resolved by the current setup IIRC. I find the lower trims of the centre consoles less then appealing. Just my personal taste that's all.

[Deanh]

I really liked the look of the 1st gen of the SONY setup and there were complaints of interface which have been resolved by the current setup IIRC. I find the lower trims of the centre consoles less then appealing. Just my personal taste that's all.

we had a 2014 Feista here last week....center console was the SONY....very nice cosmetic improvement....

[silvrsvt]

I will EMPHATICALLY say, the voice recognition is sub-par, the biggest complaint I get is the voice/ Nav system....then again, lot of Hispanic/ exotic street names here in So Cal....

 

I think the problem is that people have too high of expectations (and be little bit lacking in the patients dept)...voice recognition for the most part is very hard (unless you have a server farm like Siri does, and that even has its own issues) to get perfect. I get frustrated with the system at times, but you know what? You can manually enter where you need to go if is that big of a problem.

 

My biggest issue with MFT is it not quite connecting up to my phone when I first start it and I try to make a call 2-3 minutes into driving (dials out but never switches to my phone on the Sync system) and it constantly repeating the same song when it decides that it wants to re-index my USB stick for some reason or another. I've had other odd cases where it would hang on a song it was playing previously (when I shut the car down last) and just going to the next song would fix it.

 

Anyone have any idea when we'll see the next upgrade to MFT? Seems like 3.5.1 has been out for at least 6 months?

[Extreme4x4]

If you actually listen to what "Flo" is saying, when you are trying to set the navigation, it actually works quite well.

 

I am not a techie. For goodness sakes, I don't even own an MP3 player (although I put songs on my sons..................... love Zune, but bad charging cable. Aughhhhh). I still have a Blackberry Bold. However, I think the patience thing is the biggest problem. People are trying to skip over a lot step by step with the navigation system. Then it doesn't do what they thought it would, and they get pissed. It reminds me of when my Mom started working on a computer. She would get so angry, because she thought it was a computer................ so it was smart and should know what she was wanting to do. I had to explain to her that a computer is stupid, and you have to go through everything step by step. She still has a hard time understanding that Paypal and her bank account are not the same thing.

 

This is what manufacturers deal with. The truth of the matter being, it is amazing that these systems are as easy to use as they are. No amount of consumer testing can come close to the reality of all the different levels of "techie" out there.

 

I don't understand the problem with the touch buttons. They make an audible sound that tells you that you hit the button. While you do have to glance, it takes no more time than looking at the old 3 dial climate control knobs. There is just no tactile contact. I think it is just that "don't like new things," thing.

[phil1336]

For many of us Baby Boomers aka: Aging Dinosaurs, we choose (not) to be forced to adapt to Techie Gadgets but they are rammed down our throat anyway. Last year I rented a top of the Line 2013 Focus Hatchback. I was`nt able to figure out how to use the HVAC System! The Owners Manual was`nt in the Glove Box either. Sometimes its better to just K.I.S.! Uuuggggg...........

[jasonj80]

U forget CR ratings come from subscribers who report on problems with the vehicles they own, I am one and when I fill out the annual quetionnaire I am very honest with the problems I have had with the vehicle I am reporting on, I don't know how much fairer it could get..

 

I know that but, what is the sample size how many vehicles do they need to have a sample size? If the sample size shows that there is an avg of 115 problems per 100 vehicles, and Ford has 117 and Honda 112. Ford has below avg showing and Honda better, but in the real world the difference isn't great at all. What about from 5 years ago, the avg could have been 140 with Honda at 130 and Ford at 150, so today's Ford is more reliable than a Honda or 5 years ago.

 

 

[kenp77]

I know that but, what is the sample size how many vehicles do they need to have a sample size? If the sample size shows that there is an avg of 115 problems per 100 vehicles, and Ford has 117 and Honda 112. Ford has below avg showing and Honda better, but in the real world the difference isn't great at all. What about from 5 years ago, the avg could have been 140 with Honda at 130 and Ford at 150, so today's Ford is more reliable than a Honda or 5 years ago.

 

Ya I don't know what their sample size per manufacture would be, they do have a large number of respondents to the questionairs, and that being said I sure don't take their ratings on any number of items as the gospel but sometimes CR is spot on with some ratings..

[Biker16]

Never mind MFT, ford products consistently were rated poorly for body hardware, and minor transmission issues.

 

Body hardware is basic build quality.

 

Minor transmission issues wasn't limited to the Fiesta and Focus but to almost every 6f transmission, the fiesta was rated poor in 2011 but below average in 2012.

[NickF1011]

I invite you to come on down and demonstrate the system on a regular basis, the very fact it takes so long underlines my statement....I almost feel people start nodding off.....and sure enough even the second visit isnt enough...you have to understand Nick, a majority of people arent as tech savy as you ( I will include myself in that gender ) and seriousl ARENT interested in 90 % of the features, its mental overload to most, which makes me question why half of the features are even there to begin with.....I would suggest a bare basics system with reflash "upgrades" to those that deem certain features, considered gimmicks by most, necessary....and I will EMPHATICALLY say, the voice recognition is sub-par, the biggest complaint I get is the voice/ Nav system....then again, lot of Hispanic/ exotic street names here in So Cal....

 

And nowhere in that response did you make any actual suggestions on what to simplify. What do you consider "gimmicks"? And which of those "gimmicks" make the system more difficult to use? What would you remove? And of those features you would remove are forced on the owner and aren't already able to be avoided if the driver so chooses?

[RichardJensen]

For many of us Baby Boomers aka: Aging Dinosaurs, we choose (not) to be forced to adapt to Techie Gadgets but they are rammed down our throat anyway. Last year I rented a top of the Line 2013 Focus Hatchback. I was`nt able to figure out how to use the HVAC System! The Owners Manual was`nt in the Glove Box either. Sometimes its better to just K.I.S.! Uuuggggg...........

Hey.

 

Your parents went through the same thing. Why should your generation be any different?

[Deanh]

Hey.

 

Your parents went through the same thing. Why should your generation be any different?

easy....his parents knew what a land line was AND a dial phone..........

[Deanh]

And nowhere in that response did you make any actual suggestions on what to simplify. What do you consider "gimmicks"? And which of those "gimmicks" make the system more difficult to use? What would you remove? And of those features you would remove are forced on the owner and aren't already able to be avoided if the driver so chooses?

ahem...when I have an hour to waste, i will take my valuable time and make a list of items I consider frivilous..NOT....I truly cant be bothered...like I said, YOU may be considered tech savy...MOST are not barring the 35 an under OMG, LOL, smiley face ### gotta text # crowd.....do i REALLY need to be read a text???????? Apps....REALLY?.....realize Nick, theres STILL a lot of "old school" buyers being alienated by what they consider "gimmicks" .....I deal with them daily, and cant say i dis-agree....

Edited May 25, 2013 by Deanh

[Extreme4x4]

The thing is, you don't have to say yes to reading the texts, and you don't have to use apps. Those are the individual users choice.

 

What I don't understand is, if your customers are not tech savvy, then why are dealerships showing people how to use everything?? This will cause confusion and overload. Shouldn't there be questions asked about what people will use the system for?? If they want to use basic functions, show them the basic day to day functions. These are not difficult, and there is not layer upon layer of "pages" to learn.

 

Basically, if the person has a no cell phone............................ VERY basic functions. If they have a flip phone, basic functions. If they have a smart phone, ask them what they do on it, and show them how to do those functions on the MFT.

 

It is about knowing your customers, and giving them the information they need. This is the salespersons job. If they have no clue as to the tech ability of their customer, then they are not asking the right questions. Too much information is not a good thing.

 

This would be like explaining all the mechanical specs of a vehicle, and all of the maintenance they can do at home, and all of the mods they can do to the vehicle, to someone looking for a A to B appliance. It is the sign of a sales force that is not doing their job.

 

MFT has a ton of capability that I will never use. So, I don't use it. All of the main functions are very easy to use, as they are no more "rocket science," than a bunch of buttons. To the person who has had turn dial climate control, auto climate control can be a daunting task to be learned. Yet the world advances and they will adapt.

[Hugh]

I think we'll past the point eventually of buttons and knobs and I am glad Ford has taken the chance to be first on the market regardless of the crap along the way. No more reaction, it's proaction and you're going to take a hit. My original SYNC and Smartphone and Ipod had features I never used but using the ones I had were no more of an issue then using a new piece of equipment anyway. My beef was voice recognition when I tried Newfie, Cape Bretoner, Quebecois, Prairie, Pretentious Torontonian, English Montrealer to Stoner British Columbian. It didn't recognize 'Coldplay', 'A Perfect Circle' and even 'Gordon Lightfoot'! That was infuriating.