Ford ratings in Consumer Reports, below average reliability

[Deanh]

The thing is, you don't have to say yes to reading the texts, and you don't have to use apps. Those are the individual users choice.

 

What I don't understand is, if your customers are not tech savvy, then why are dealerships showing people how to use everything?? This will cause confusion and overload. Shouldn't there be questions asked about what people will use the system for?? If they want to use basic functions, show them the basic day to day functions. These are not difficult, and there is not layer upon layer of "pages" to learn.

 

Basically, if the person has a no cell phone............................ VERY basic functions. If they have a flip phone, basic functions. If they have a smart phone, ask them what they do on it, and show them how to do those functions on the MFT.

 

It is about knowing your customers, and giving them the information they need. This is the salespersons job. If they have no clue as to the tech ability of their customer, then they are not asking the right questions. Too much information is not a good thing.

 

This would be like explaining all the mechanical specs of a vehicle, and all of the maintenance they can do at home, and all of the mods they can do to the vehicle, to someone looking for a A to B appliance. It is the sign of a sales force that is not doing their job.

 

MFT has a ton of capability that I will never use. So, I don't use it. All of the main functions are very easy to use, as they are no more "rocket science," than a bunch of buttons. To the person who has had turn dial climate control, auto climate control can be a daunting task to be learned. Yet the world advances and they will adapt.

sadly we have to due to ford mandates and its pre-occupation with CSI....when it comes to MFT sadly, that hill is too steep to climb due to the fact people dont retain everything they are told, even after 3 or so visits, but in Fords eyes the onus is solely in the delivery persons lapsn....so consequently CSI has declined....ironically I thought we had it bad until a friend of mine bought an Audi...THAT system is out of control......

[transitman]

Extreme 4X4 is spot on. Great customer service means taking the time to understand your customer, learning their needs and wants, following through after the initial contact or final sale, teaching them what they need to know and using that information to generate return business. Unfortunately, it seems some sales people and companies don't approach it like that. I get a personal e-mail from my car salesman on my birthday and that means a lot to me. I've also bought many items from radios, TV's and large appliances from Best Buy and I'm sure they have my personal information on file, even an electronic e-mail masquerading as a personal e-mail with discount coupons or warranty reminders would make me feel better about buying there.

Technology in cars and everywhere else is not going away. You can avoid some technology in cars, for now, by purchasing the cheapest, most stripped down, basic model offered. But someone who's older and has the income or savings doesn't want to do that, so they are going to have a technology laced car if they want it or not. I don't know what age groups BOF members are in, but I'm 57 and remember dial phones and metal dashboards. I grew up in the greatest time for Rock and Roll, I enjoy music and have converted all my music to digital, not because I'm hip, but because it sounds better, is more portable and that's how music is "sold" these days. There's no age limit on technology, the only limits are on what an individual wants and needs. Once she learned how to search Google, play games, find crossword puzzles online and e-mail, you couldn't drag my 80+ year old Mother away from her computer, but that's all she used it for. She didn't use 90% of what the computer could do, but that didn't matter, she used what she wanted and needed. MFT/MLT can only play AM talk radio, if that's all you want it or need it to do.

Edited May 25, 2013 by transitman

[Edstock]

I think we'll past the point eventually of buttons and knobs and I am glad Ford has taken the chance to be first on the market regardless of the crap along the way. No more reaction, it's proaction and you're going to take a hit. My original SYNC and Smartphone and Ipod had features I never used but using the ones I had were no more of an issue then using a new piece of equipment anyway. My beef was voice recognition when I tried Newfie, Cape Bretoner, Quebecois, Prairie, Pretentious Torontonian, English Montrealer to Stoner British Columbian. It didn't recognize 'Coldplay', 'A Perfect Circle' and even 'Gordon Lightfoot'! That was infuriating.

 

Did you try the Preston Manning sub-dialect of "Prairie" as demonstrated on AirFarce? Maybe it'll recognize reform.

[Hugh]

Did you try the Preston Manning sub-dialect of "Prairie" as demonstrated on AirFarce? Maybe it'll recognize reform.

That's Funny! Ha Ha Ha!

[BORG]

I have the Clarion system in my wife's Edge and MFT in my daughter's Focus and my Fusion. I'll take MFT every day of the week.

I would never want the Clarion system back.

[BORG]

Hey.

 

Your parents went through the same thing. Why should your generation be any different?

Actually, the least confusing thing about the Focus/Escape for me was the climate controls, for me it was the stalks and the wiper controls It's funny just how many vastly different ways Ford can engineer a stalk from one generation to the next.

[Edstock]

Actually, the least confusing thing about the Focus/Escape for me was the climate controls, for me it was the stalks and the wiper controls It's funny just how many vastly different ways Ford can engineer a stalk from one generation to the next.

 

The engineer in charge of that is known as the Mad Stalker, just so's ya know.

[4d4evr-1]

Hi you all. I'm here again with my comments about Ford and tech. My wife and I are retired and bought a C-Max last November. We bought the C-Max after planning to purchase an Escape for 2 years waiting for the Kuga to come from EU. Wanted the high seating, space to haul and MFT so we could adapt to the tech before we got any older. Before we could decide on the color for the Escape the C-Max arrived and the 47x47x47 was too much to refuse. so we purchased the C-Max SEL with everything except the glass roof. There was no price difference between Escape and C-Max so no extra cost for hybrid and with 8 year and 100K warranty on hybrid system no worries about extra costs based on our driving history.

 

We have over 7000 miles and are now averaging over 45 MPG and that continues to rise as the weather warmed. Most trips are now over 50 and some in the 60's. We have Iphones and no issues with Sync. MFT touch has worked with no issues. Voice activation so some controls do not always work but if so I have touch screen touches that do. We also have buttons to control sound, temp and nav. I think CR has boxed themselves in on the complaints about MFT and this has become a pissing match and I try not to pull mine out in public.

[JasonM]

Why is there a new thread on a report from last year, Oct 2012 ?

 

Why doesn't CR report actual things-gone-wrong?

 

Why does CR use tiny bubbles to report analytical data?

 

Why does Borg whine like a spoiled child all the time?

 

What methodology does CR use to predict reliability in the future?

 

Does CR's methodology to predict the future also work for the stock market, the weather, and Powerball numbers?

 

 

 

 

CR would be more useful to consumers if they provided actual comparative data rather than hiding behind bubbles.

 

If CR wanted to be meaningful, providing actual data would help consumers could make better informed decisions.

 

For example, should consumers really buy a Ford over a BMW or Infiniti or Cadillac because Ford's are more reliable over a 3 year period?

 

If you are only buying one vehicle (and not 100) is 1.27 problems per vehicle vs 1.33 problems per vehicle really a determining factor?

 

[Biker16]

Actually, the least confusing thing about the Focus/Escape for me was the climate controls, for me it was the stalks and the wiper controls It's funny just how many vastly different ways Ford can engineer a stalk from one generation to the next.

 

I had the opposite experience, with the single stalk I am constantly clicking on the high beams with using the wipers, especially the single wipe function. To me its just too much on one stalk.

 

Ironically the 2008 focus stalks were north American, while the 2000 and 2012 were European.

[NickF1011]

ahem...when I have an hour to waste, i will take my valuable time and make a list of items I consider frivilous..NOT....I truly cant be bothered...like I said, YOU may be considered tech savy...MOST are not barring the 35 an under OMG, LOL, smiley face ### gotta text # crowd.....do i REALLY need to be read a text???????? Apps....REALLY?.....realize Nick, theres STILL a lot of "old school" buyers being alienated by what they consider "gimmicks" .....I deal with them daily, and cant say i dis-agree....

The two things you kind of sort of mentioned are both functions you can completely ignore if you want, and neither of those two things in any way interfere with using any other functions of MFT if you choose to ignore them.

 

So in other words, you don't have an answer.

Edited May 26, 2013 by NickF1011

[kenp77]

Why is there a new thread on a report from last year, Oct 2012 ?

 

Why doesn't CR report actual things-gone-wrong?

 

Why does CR use tiny bubbles to report analytical data?

 

Why does Borg whine like a spoiled child all the time?

 

What methodology does CR use to predict reliability in the future?

 

Does CR's methodology to predict the future also work for the stock market, the weather, and Powerball numbers?

 

 

 

 

CR would be more useful to consumers if they provided actual comparative data rather than hiding behind bubbles.

 

If CR wanted to be meaningful, providing actual data would help consumers could make better informed decisions.

 

For example, should consumers really buy a Ford over a BMW or Infiniti or Cadillac because Ford's are more reliable over a 3 year period?

 

If you are only buying one vehicle (and not 100) is 1.27 problems per vehicle vs 1.33 problems per vehicle really a determining factor?

 

I believe this is quite close to what CR ratings r for these manufactures??

[azulejost]

I thought MFT was a great idea when first unveiled and before I owned it. A few months of ownership and I was quite done with it's seemingly constant refusal to pair bluetooth to my phone. That made it hard to comply with the hands-free law and even when it would work there was a great deal of background noise that made conversations challenging at highway speed, compounded by heavy rain pounding on the panoramic roof.

 

But since the winter update, I have to say the Escape's version of MFT with duplicate, stand-alone hard controls including climate control knobs is just fine. Gone are the Bluetooth issues although I continue to have the occasional GPS issue and find the map telling me I'm flying through grass and side streets while continuing down the main road.

 

To me, the main thing is to have the radio and climate controls functional without relying on the touch screen. Additional features accessible only on the screen are fine, but those are things both frequently adjusted and long present on automobiles. Navigation almost always requires touch screen interaction or those annoying scroll knobs to enter addresses.

[JasonM]

I believe this is quite close to what CR ratings r for these manufactures??

 

Not according to the OP who stated " according to CU fords are well below average in quality"

 

The OP is using a "study" published in Oct 2012 to break this "news".

 

The JDPower Dependability Study is from this year and paints a totally different picture. Lincoln is #3 of all makes

 

The difference is JDPower uses things-gone-wrong over a three year period. CR uses an unknown methodology without any analytical data presented beyond tiny bubbles. Somehow CR generates a "Predicted Reliability" score. There's no mention by CR if they use a Ouija board or tarot cards to predict the future.

 

Regardless, most manufacturers are not that far one way or the other from the industry average of 126/100.

 

Because of this, "Things Gone Right" is more important for consumers as witnessed by the surge in Fusion sales.

 

[RichardJensen]

Wait. That original link is from 2012?

 

That's just ridiculous. I didn't even look. I figured we were around April 2013/"CR Auto Issue" time, and that stuff was current.

 

Regardless, I've found CR's bubbles to be somewhat useful. They've done a good job predicting trouble spots on my cars.

 

But it's still a trailing indicator produced by an outfit that has shown itself to be less than credible in how it evaluates vehicles.

[silvrsvt]

ahem...when I have an hour to waste, i will take my valuable time and make a list of items I consider frivilous..

 

Your dealership doesn't have anyone to do training? I was offered training on my SHO and my parents (both in their 60s) had it offered to them when they got their Escape Ti...they had weekly classes on from what I understood from what my dad was telling me. Both dealerships are completely different demographics also...parents live in an area with at least 1.5+ million customers (and about a half dozen Ford dealers) and I live in an area that is prob 1/3 of the population they do with only 3 dealerships (2 are owned by the same people in my county)

 

I can understand your frustration for training customers if its taking away sales time from you, but to attack it because your dealership hasn't hired someone to teach it...well thats their problem

[transitman]

When I picked up my Focus, the salesman took the time to pair my phone and walk me through the basic functions of MFT and steering controls. He didn't get too deep, but showed me how to set the radio presets, hook up devices and use the climate controls and phone. I figured out on my own time how to browse music and fine tune the sound, it took all of 15-20 minutes from his sales time. That's what I consider good customer service from a well trained Ford salesman who's dealership knows there's value in making sure the customer is treated well. I came back just over a year later to purchase my Escape.

[Deanh]

Your dealership doesn't have anyone to do training? I was offered training on my SHO and my parents (both in their 60s) had it offered to them when they got their Escape Ti...they had weekly classes on from what I understood from what my dad was telling me. Both dealerships are completely different demographics also...parents live in an area with at least 1.5+ million customers (and about a half dozen Ford dealers) and I live in an area that is prob 1/3 of the population they do with only 3 dealerships (2 are owned by the same people in my county)

 

I can understand your frustration for training customers if its taking away sales time from you, but to attack it because your dealership hasn't hired someone to teach it...well thats their problem

Yes we do, every dealership does.......but back to my initial question...should it really be this complex???????????? doesnt the necessity of constant "training" underline the very issue?

[Deanh]

The two things you kind of sort of mentioned are both functions you can completely ignore if you want, and neither of those two things in any way interfere with using any other functions of MFT if you choose to ignore them.

 

So in other words, you don't have an answer.

yes I do...there should be no need for individuals to constantly need "refreshes"....YOU may retain, a majority do NOT...or cant be bothered...so in your mind the system is fine no?....welcome to the 1% Nick....it IS A) overly complex B) overkill C) demands a steep learning curve D) is NOT going away irrespective of commonly voiced complaints.....

[Extreme4x4]

As Nick said, please list what is complex about it, and what you would change.

 

It sounds like your Ford store has decided to teach people everything there is to know about it, whether they will use 1% of that, or not. Thus, you are providing information overload, so the customer isn't even retaining the basic functions.

 

Please list what needs to be simplified in the functions that 90% of the people will use 99% of the time.

 

It is easy to complain about something, but not so easy to explain what needs to be done to fix it. Starting over is not a solution, it is a copout. Also, please understand that there is this 1% that can't remember what those 37 buttons do either. Or, how to use their 3 dial climate control to its most efficient. Or, how to set radio stations on a DIN digital stereo. So, why should MFT be any different??

[Deanh]

As Nick said, please list what is complex about it, and what you would change.

 

It sounds like your Ford store has decided to teach people everything there is to know about it, whether they will use 1% of that, or not. Thus, you are providing information overload, so the customer isn't even retaining the basic functions.

 

Please list what needs to be simplified in the functions that 90% of the people will use 99% of the time.

 

It is easy to complain about something, but not so easy to explain what needs to be done to fix it. Starting over is not a solution, it is a copout. Also, please understand that there is this 1% that can't remember what those 37 buttons do either. Or, how to use their 3 dial climate control to its most efficient. Or, how to set radio stations on a DIN digital stereo. So, why should MFT be any different??

Im not going to list what I perceive as its weakness's, the list would be long, and truth be told, Im over it after experiencing the continual rotating door of questions and issues...in my mind one only has to open the manual and look at the list of prompts to question how valid, or important 1/2 of them are, they really are NOT necessary and move too far from the "basics"....then add Sync Services....IMO the system has been designed by a computer geek appesing him/ herself with "nifty" litle macros, and there-in lies half of the issue....YES we show the basics, THEN the customer discovers some "back-door" of questionable interest and its game on...back to the dealer. I DO wonder, if Ford had kept the system more simplistic, if 99% of the re-flashes would be necessary or if the dreaded "lockups" would have happened so regularly. So, I guess my point is, would there be all the issues, and complaints, and CSI issues, had Ford kept the system more basic.....? I would MUCH rather hear complaints about what the system COULD be, and should have from a small % of clients, than "DAMN THIS OVER THE TO PIECE OF $....t" " Hey Dean IM back for another re-flash..." "Hey its dropped my phone AGAIN"..."Hey the nav system wont...." etc etc....I do understand where you and Nick are coming from, but based on my hands on with customers, I think you are a relatively small %.....what would I change, hmm, hard to say, its pretty evolved and any simplifications I would suggest could be perceived as a step back, so Im in a lose lose situation. In the meantime, I will continue voicing my "figure out what is important to you and ignore the rest" advice...

Edited May 27, 2013 by Deanh

[RichardJensen]

based on my hands on with customers, I think you are a relatively small %.....

 

Wrong.

 

You're only talking to people with problems. How many people are going to call you up every day and say, "Hey Dean, system's working awesome. Just thought you should know."

[Deanh]

Wrong.

 

You're only talking to people with problems. How many people are going to call you up every day and say, "Hey Dean, system's working awesome. Just thought you should know."

true, but sometimes I feel thats what we are here for....listening boards for complaints....maybe thats why I may be coming off as pretty negative towards the system myself...if all one hears is "bitching"..one can become a little "jaded"....and for my attitude towards it I offer an apology...but MAN it gets frustrating...and seriously, i only hear 100% positive froma VERY small %, and part of that is from people like myself, cant be bothered with it....hell, I get frustrated showing the system...,may be a generation issue....

[Deanh]

perhaps Im just a tad jaded due to the fact that the rest of the vehicles are pretty much flawless, I have basically ZERO complainta about everything BUT the MFT / sync system....so, sorry if what Im stating is coming off as a rant....

[kenp77]

Not according to the OP who stated " according to CU fords are well below average in quality"

 

The OP is using a "study" published in Oct 2012 to break this "news".

 

The JDPower Dependability Study is from this year and paints a totally different picture. Lincoln is #3 of all makes

 

The difference is JDPower uses things-gone-wrong over a three year period. CR uses an unknown methodology without any analytical data presented beyond tiny bubbles. Somehow CR generates a "Predicted Reliability" score. There's no mention by CR if they use a Ouija board or tarot cards to predict the future.

 

Regardless, most manufacturers are not that far one way or the other from the industry average of 126/100.

 

Because of this, "Things Gone Right" is more important for consumers as witnessed by the surge in Fusion sales.

 

Actually CU did not say well below avg., just below avg. which JD powers confirms, albeit only one point..