Uncamoed 2015 Mustang nose shots

[NickF1011]

Agreed but I think we've done the retro thing now and it was a success. Its still a success, just not as much as it had been at one time. I still think the '05 body style with tweaked handling, brakes and 5.0 power would sell like hell. Most people I think prefer those years to the current iteration.

 

Is the '05 body really that different from the current one? No. I think the whole overall retro look has done it's job but it's time to move on. The trick now is to move into a more modern aesthetic while still making it look like a logical follow-up to the current car. Hopefully this does the job.

 

Looking to the past though, it's not like Ford has always been concerned with satisfying purists with a familiar look. The 1979 Mustang looked nothing like any Mustang prior to it, yet it was still an extremely successful design. The styling was completely different, but the packaging was familiar. I think that's the part that Ford needs to maintain more than the outward appearance in most regards.

[grbeck]

Looking to the past though, it's not like Ford has always been concerned with satisfying purists with a familiar look. The 1979 Mustang looked nothing like any Mustang prior to it, yet it was still an extremely successful design. The styling was completely different, but the packaging was familiar. I think that's the part that Ford needs to maintain more than the outward appearance in most regards.

 

It was a different time for Ford (and the domestic auto industry in general) in late 1978 when that Mustang debuted. The 1971-73 Mustangs were not particularly well-regarded, and many people felt that 1974-78 Mustang II was TOO small. The Mustang II sold well at first, thanks to the Arab Oil Embargo in December 1973, but once gas started flowing again, sales of the GM F-bodies took off. The Chevrolet Camaro was selling as fast as GM could make it from 1977-79, and the Pontiac Firebird set sales records during these years. There was a feeling that Ford had essentially abdicated this market to GM, as the Mustang II was more of a competitor for the Toyota Celica, Chevrolet Monza, etc., than the F-bodies.

 

People were ready for something different, and they were ready for something that made a clean break with the recent past. It helped that the Fox-body Mustang was a dramatic improvement over its predecessor - roomier and stronger while also being lighter. The ergonomics were also a great leap forward over the Mustang II.

 

At this point, I'm not sensing any great dissatisfaction with the 2005 and up Mustangs.

Edited October 7, 2013 by grbeck

[NickF1011]

At this point, I'm not sensing any great dissatisfaction with the 2005 and up Mustangs.

 

Despite it selling at its lowest levels in 2 decades?

 

Those who have them are certainly satisfied. It's an incredible car on paper. The best Mustang ever by far in that regard. But that hasn't been translating to sales over the past few years.

Edited October 7, 2013 by NickF1011

[Harley Lover]

Proportions look odd, and the notched lower rear window isn't in the current Ford or Lincoln design languages... Next-gen MKX? Aviator?

 

Look up the current Galaxy, that rear window is very close to its design.

 

Edited October 7, 2013 by Harley Lover

[SoonerLS]

Despite it selling at its lowest levels in 2 decades?

Hasn't its market segment also been flat, if not down, over the last decade or so? As I recall, the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger basically split the market that the Mustang had all to itself for several years.

[grbeck]

Despite it selling at its lowest levels in 2 decades?

 

Those who have them are certainly satisfied. It's an incredible car on paper. The best Mustang ever by far in that regard. But that hasn't been translating to sales over the past few years.

Is that because of changes in the marketplace, as opposed to anything wrong with the car itself? Is there much of a market for two-door coupes anymore? I've also read that Chrysler has been offering hefty incentives to move Dodge Challengers.

 

If I recall correctly, the 1979 Mustang sold almost 400,000 units. That was on top of healthy sales for the Camaro and Firebird (not to mention all of the personal luxury coupes on the market at that time). l wouldn't be surprised if, in 2013, the total market for affordable coupes is about 400,000 units.

[Tico]

So now people will whine it is not drastic enough of a change? OMG! I think there was so my hype and hand wringing that it would be "completely new" that people's imaginations ran wild! I think the front end looks great. Looks like a mix of the 99-04 "new edge" and the current car. It will be very interesting to see the back end of the car. They has more of a mystery as far as I am concerned. Also remember this car is supposed to be much shorter than the current car. Even shorter then the SN95 Mustangs. So it will look plenty different from the current car even if it is not "EVO enough" for some people and not "retro enough" for others. Between IRS, more engine choices, and other upgrades it should out sell the Camaro once again. I plan on buy one from this upcoming generation.

[SoonerLS]

If I recall correctly, the 1979 Mustang sold almost 400,000 units. That was on top of healthy sales for the Camaro and Firebird (not to mention all of the personal luxury coupes on the market at that time). l wouldn't be surprised if, in 2013, the total market for affordable coupes is about 400,000 units.

If you look at pony car sales, they may not even break 200K units this year.

[NickF1011]

Hasn't its market segment also been flat, if not down, over the last decade or so? As I recall, the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger basically split the market that the Mustang had all to itself for several years.

 

The Mustang was selling better then than it is now for most of the time the Camaro and Firebird were still on the market together, so...

 

Is that because of changes in the marketplace, as opposed to anything wrong with the car itself? Is there much of a market for two-door coupes anymore? I've also read that Chrysler has been offering hefty incentives to move Dodge Challengers.

 

If I recall correctly, the 1979 Mustang sold almost 400,000 units. That was on top of healthy sales for the Camaro and Firebird (not to mention all of the personal luxury coupes on the market at that time). l wouldn't be surprised if, in 2013, the total market for affordable coupes is about 400,000 units.

 

I think the market is still there. It's not as large as it was, but like you mentioned, there are far fewer players in it to compete against too.

 

Challenger has actually been creeping ever closer to the Mustang's sales. Camaro is flat out beating it. Based on the historical run of Mustang almost always outselling Camaro previously, it should be expected to have a larger market footprint now as well, but it doesn't. I just think people are tired of the retro. I expect Challenger sales to start diving soon too if they don't move forward with its design.

[SoonerLS]

The Mustang was selling better then than it is now for most of the time the Camaro and Firebird were still on the market together, so...

But what was the market like at the time? Maybe they should be outpacing the Camaro, but if the market is smaller now, it's unrealistic to expect them to sell like they did back then. FWIW, as of September, only the Challenger is up; the Mustang and Camaro are both down, year-over-year.

I just think people are tired of the retro. I expect Challenger sales to start diving soon too if they don't move forward with its design.

If that were it, none of the pony cars, which are all very retro, would be selling well.

[ZanatWork]

I think the fact that the Mustang has the most antiquated rear suspension of the three hurts sales, and that informed potential buyers know that the current car-which I think looks and certainly drives great-is basically a place-holder until the new one comes out. All the little front-end glimpses and attempted graphic mock-ups regarding the new car will have an effect of making some people delay their purchase.

The market is smaller. The Camaro is winning, but often by not much...so there's an average of arround 20K monthly sales to split among the 3 real players.

[akirby]

I think the fact that the Mustang has the most antiquated rear suspension of the three hurts sales

 

I think that's an urban myth. That "antiquated" rear suspension outperforms or matches the IRS competition and the vast majority of mustang buyers wouldn't know the difference anyway.

 

Not saying they shouldn't change to IRS, but there is nothing about the current SRA setup that is lacking.

[Tico]

But what was the market like at the time? Maybe they should be outpacing the Camaro, but if the market is smaller now, it's unrealistic to expect them to sell like they did back then. FWIW, as of September, only the Challenger is up; the Mustang and Camaro are both down, year-over-year.

If that were it, none of the pony cars, which are all very retro, would be selling well.

Maybe it is just a generational thing. I am not saying all young people but a large majority of them don't give to $@#^$ about pony cars. Young people are not exposed to RWD. I think it is a problem if they live where it snows. They don't think that a V8 is cool. They only think it uses too much gas. They think two doors is stupid, how will my friends get in the car. There parents always had Honda's and Toyotas. They grew up during the "rice boy"era where civics with huge wings and fart can mufflers were cool. The older generation that did group up with V8 RWD coupes doesn't want them for many of the same reasons. They want something "practicle". It is not that any of the FWD sports coupes outsell the Pony Car segment, they don't. MOST people just don't want a coupe anymore. They sure don't want RWD. Maybe AWD. Maybe a sports sedan. Yes there still are about half million of us each year that want a real pony car. But I doubt we will ever see 400,000 mustang sold again unless GM and Mopar drop out.

[silvrsvt]

One thing to consider also Nick, is that Mustang price is quite a bit more dearer then it was 20-30 years ago. I'm sure its more profitable now then it was even in 2005 with the new platform. Lets not get too hung up with how many units are sold. The best sales year of the S197 Mustang was in 2006 or 07, before the Economy took a turn for the worse and as far as I'm concerned, it still hasn't turned the corner to recovery just yet. Things don't suck as badly as they did back then, but they still haven't come back either.

 

The market place has increased competition and crappy economy working against it. The market for a car that is "practical" as the Mustang hasn't recovered yet. Alot of people are driving cars that are 5-7 years old on average and the primary car (thats more practical) will be the one thats replaced, not a second car like the Mustang.

[akirby]

Exactly. The times they are a-changin'.........

[silvrsvt]

Maybe it is just a generational thing. I am not saying all young people but a large majority of them don't give to $@#^$ about pony cars. Young people are not exposed to RWD. I think it is a problem if they live where it snows. They don't think that a V8 is cool. They only think it uses too much gas. They think two doors is stupid, how will my friends get in the car. There parents always had Honda's and Toyotas. They grew up during the "rice boy"era where civics with huge wings and fart can mufflers were cool. The older generation that did group up with V8 RWD coupes doesn't want them for many of the same reasons. They want something "practicle". It is not that any of the FWD sports coupes outsell the Pony Car segment, they don't. MOST people just don't want a coupe anymore. They sure don't want RWD. Maybe AWD. Maybe a sports sedan. Yes there still are about half million of us each year that want a real pony car. But I doubt we will ever see 400,000 mustang sold again unless GM and Mopar drop out.

 

Those same people can't even afford or even want a car...so its not like its going to be an increase in sales there either. Looking at my generation (X) we aren't going to be able to start buying "fun" cars again for another few years when we start hitting our 50s and our children are grown up more. I don't care, I've owned two Mustangs before the age of 40, so doesn't bother me

[SoonerLS]

But I doubt we will ever see 400,000 mustang sold again unless GM and Mopar drop out.

At the height of the Mustang-only pony car segment, the Mustang only hit 166K units. I don't think we'll see a 400K pony car segment again unless something drastic happens; there's just too much competition in the US market for what is, essentially, a niche product to sell that well.

Edited October 7, 2013 by SoonerLS

[akirby]

Even my buddy who's in his mid 60's just bought a Miata instead of a pony car. There are too many other choices today and far less interested buyers.

[Anthony]

Is that because of changes in the marketplace, as opposed to anything wrong with the car itself? Is there much of a market for two-door coupes anymore? I've also read that Chrysler has been offering hefty incentives to move Dodge Challengers.

 

Quite the contrary. Chrysler has kept incentives down on Challengers pretty much since it came out. It sells in consistent numbers most months without wild swings with little to no advertising. It's actually done better as of late. ...and that's pretty much the same exact model you see on that came out 6 years ago (refresh is next year).

 

Current incentives is only .9% financing for a whopping 36 months or a wallet busting $1k.

 

Edit: I follow the incentives on it because I want one. But I've decided to wait on the refresh.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Intrepidatious

[Tico]

Those same people can't even afford or even want a car...so its not like its going to be an increase in sales there either. Looking at my generation (X) we aren't going to be able to start buying "fun" cars again for another few years when we start hitting our 50s and our children are grown up more. I don't care, I've owned two Mustangs before the age of 40, so doesn't bother me

Those same people ARE buying cars. Some of my kids friends have older siblings in college or just out (20 to 25). They ARE buy new cars. Fiesta, Cruze, Corolla, little Kia s and Hunyadi s. Practical stuff with small price tags (if you can believe 20K is small now a days!)

 

I am also Gen X I guess. (40s). I have still have my '04 Mustang GT. Drive it 365 days a year, in the snow too. Kids are used to crawling in and out of the back. Of course our other car is an SUV so.... I plan to pass the 2004 on to my oldest kid in two years when I buy my new 2016 GT. But I am far from the average consumer!

[EBFlex]

Not saying they shouldn't change to IRS, but there is nothing about the current SRA setup that is lacking.

 

Bull.

 

The ride is very choppy and the car gets unsettled while going over bumps, etc.

 

I drove my roommate's Mustang into work one day and the ride was absolutely annoying. The ride in my Ram is far better. Every little bump made the car bounce.

[Joe771476]

For the life of me I can't understand how Camaro outsells Mustang! Here in CT/New England, I see three or four times as many Mustangs as Camaros. Is New England the twilight zone? And every Camaro I see is mono-colored, no stripes, no hood scoops....nothing! BORING! I haven't seen two Mustangs that are identical yet! It's the same way it was with heavy trucks! Every other class 8 truck in New England was a Ford (and then Sterlings), but the nationwide numbers didn't translate. Do New England Ford dealers do a better job here?

[ZanatWork]

It's considerably limited in comparison, so it's no myth. On the other hand, Ford has basically evolved it as far as they can...but now can move on to a much more modern setup.

I've worried that the weekend-warrior drag racers will avoid the upcoming car, but many of them use older models, anyway...not much threat to new Mustang sales.

I think that's an urban myth. That "antiquated" rear suspension outperforms or matches the IRS competition and the vast majority of mustang buyers wouldn't know the difference anyway.

 

Not saying they shouldn't change to IRS, but there is nothing about the current SRA setup that is lacking.

[Edstock]

Is that because of changes in the marketplace, as opposed to anything wrong with the car itself? Is there much of a market for two-door coupes anymore?

 

I don't know. But Honda have gone to a lot of effort to make an Accord coupe, and Nissan's Altima coupe plus the luxo labels indicates that they believe there is, or that the market that does exist should be catered to for the perceived marketing benefit to the brand from offering a full model range.

[Anthony]

Altima coupe is not returning for the newest gen (the holdover coupe for this year is the last gen).