catan70 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 So I know the 2015 expedition is a much much needed improvement over the current, having said that the expedition looks outdated. It is getting very long in the tooth. We have had the same sheet metal since 2003. I keep hearing that an all new expy will be out in 2017. Has anyone seen it and can comment on it? I feel like ford is missing out in this department big time. Though they do not sell like before, large SUVs carry a brand image. It's quite common to see homes with a ford truck and a gm suv. If ford was aggressive about large SUVs it would help promote the brand more. Almost everytime u see a full size suv on tv it's either an escalade tahoe or surburban and I'm sick of it. I know that the expy is a good vehicle it just doesn't carry the same appeal as the gm's do. With ford dominating in truck sales right now vs gm if they could roll out an all new styled expedition that has the same appeal and desire as the tahoe does then ford could really put pressure on gm. I don't think gm can afford to lose market share in their full size suv division. Anyone know anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 There have been several discussions on the Expedition here over the last year or two. Ford had to wait for the new F150 platform to determine if and how they were going to go forward with the new Expy and Navigator. Given the new lower sales volumes of full-sized suvs they have to share as much of the F150 platform as possible. The refresh was done a couple of years ago but they weren't sure about the F150 platform back then. Waiting is not as bad as pouring lots of money into a vehicle with no future. The new Expedition will use aluminum just like the F150 and that will give Ford a big advantage down the road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The all new, aluminum intensive model is scheduled to come out as a MY2017. The Expedition/Navigator program were put on "review" a few years ago which stalled development of the new model and delayed the MCE from 2013 to 2015. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catan70 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 If it's scheduled for 2017 does that mean they are working on it right now? Anyone know what it might look like? Im hoping that it will have enough appeal to make gm sweat a little. They have dominated that segment for too long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If it's scheduled for 2017 does that mean they are working on it right now? Anyone know what it might look like? Im hoping that it will have enough appeal to make gm sweat a little. They have dominated that segment for too long! If it's due out then, I'd imagine at least preliminary engineering for it is underway. The timing would also depend on how closely related it is to other models like the F150 though, as basing its mechanicals on an existing vehicle would cut down on the engineering requirements and time needed to develop them considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Of course it means they're working on it now and nobody outside of Ford knows what it will look like. But the current Explorer and 2015 Edge concept would be a good approximation. No matter how good it is they may never dominate the segment. Suburban and Tahoe buyers are loyal. Although I just saw a new Suburban this weekend and man is it ugly compared to the old ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 No matter how good it is they may never dominate the segment. Suburban and Tahoe buyers are loyal. Although I just saw a new Suburban this weekend and man is it ugly compared to the old ones. I can handle the looks (except for the disfigured headlights), but the El Cheapo solution they pulled to try to match Ford's fold flat 3rd row seat is laughable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I was shocked at how massive and squared off it looked both front and rear. It's really much worse than the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catan70 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I was shocked at how massive and squared off it looked both front and rear. It's really much worse than the pictures. Haha that's why I think if ford makes it a sharp enough looking suv there's a lot of sales to be taken. The last generation tahoe was a good looking vehicle and even though the expedition had some better features overall the tahoe just looked much much better. This next generation tahoe looks like it will be another silverado meaning just enough to get by but not winning any new customers. I do not think its a good enough looking vehicle that current tahoe owners will rush in to trade their current suv in for. I imagine gm is sweating over their new truck sales being stagnant at best. If ford can put some pressure on them with a sweet looking expedition they'll be peeing their britches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I was shocked at how massive and squared off it looked both front and rear. It's really much worse than the pictures. Yeah, it doesn't hide its mass like the older versions did. I blame the ground-to-rocker, rocker-to-sill, sill-to-roof ratio. It's all sorts of screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catan70 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I was shocked at how massive and squared off it looked both front and rear. It's really much worse than the pictures. Haha that's why I think if ford makes it a sharp enough looking suv there's a lot of sales to be taken. The last generation tahoe was a good looking vehicle and even though the expedition had some better features overall the tahoe just looked much much better. This next generation tahoe looks like it will be another silverado meaning just enough to get by but not winning any new customers. I do not think its a good enough looking vehicle that current tahoe owners will rush in to trade their current suv in for. I imagine gm is sweating over their new truck sales being stagnant at best. If ford can put some pressure on them with a sweet looking expedition they'll be peeing their britches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I can handle the looks (except for the disfigured headlights), but the El Cheapo solution they pulled to try to match Ford's fold flat 3rd row seat is laughable... Unfortunately, I think it's going to be a tough task for Ford marketing folk to sell the IRS to the beancounters in order to maintain that fold-flat 3rd row. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Unfortunately, I think it's going to be a tough task for Ford marketing folk to sell the IRS to the beancounters in order to maintain that fold-flat 3rd row. If Lincoln intends to go after the RR with the next version, IRS is all but required. IRS gives Ford a huge advantage in packaging as well as driving dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Lincoln intends to go after the RR with the next version, IRS is all but required. IRS gives Ford a huge advantage in packaging as well as driving dynamics. Precisely. With L-R gone, the Navigator has the opportunity to move up in technology and performance. With a solid rear axle, it's just an Escalade, and that's just not good enough. Maybe Shelby could even get involved to offer something that might give Cayenne owners something to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Lincoln intends to go after the RR with the next version, IRS is all but required. IRS gives Ford a huge advantage in packaging as well as driving dynamics. We're talking about Expedition not Navigator. I think the Navigator will be a huge upgrade over the Expy with way more features and capability (and price tag). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We're talking about Expedition not Navigator. I think the Navigator will be a huge upgrade over the Expy with way more features and capability (and price tag). Right, BUT the program still encompasses both vehicles and, one would think, that if the platform was adapted for IRS for the Navigator, it would also be included with the Expedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If the rumors about Expedition and Navigator merging back onto the F150's platform are true, I'd think that the next Expedition would very closely resemble the F150. Being able to share sheetmetal forward of the B-/C-pillar would have to be a huge cost savings for the big SUV. Maybe differentiate it in the grille and lights, but use as much of the sheetmetal as possible to free up money for a nicer interior, fold-flat third row, IRS, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If Lincoln intends to go after the RR with the next version, IRS is all but required. IRS gives Ford a huge advantage in packaging as well as driving dynamics. Probably air suspension too for the ride comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Right, BUT the program still encompasses both vehicles and, one would think, that if the platform was adapted for IRS for the Navigator, it would also be included with the Expedition. Unless they take a drastically different direction with Navigator, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I believe that there is a lot of life left in this segment. If fuel prices remain stable and the economy improves, I wouldn't be surprised if the market grew in a couple of years. People will or are getting use to the new reality on gas prices. The MPG differentiation isn't going to be all that great with ecoboost and aluminum compared to vehicles with way lesser or nearly nonexistent utility. The MKC in AWD is only 21 MPG combined with 18/26 city/highway. The current Navigator AWD is 13/15/18 with 5.4 V8 and steel body. Ecoboost and Aluminum should close that gap about 3-4 MPG for each number. The Flex or Edge would put this comparison even closer. There is just nothing as versatile as these vehicles, especially with the fold flat rear seat. They cost a lot, but they have multiples more of room, towing ability and comfort than do CUV's for not that much more fuel burned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 But many people just don't want a large vehicle like that any more now that there are viable smaller crossovers available. We had a 99 Eddie Bauer but hardly ever used the full utility of the vehicle. We downgraded to an Aviator, then an Edge and now an Escape. A lot of the folks who didn't need all that capability have moved on and they aren't going back regardless of mpg. So I don't see the market increasing - if anything these new vehicles will make it easier to hang on to current market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Have to agree with you, we have an Edge and my wife feels it is still too big for daily commutes by herself the 12 miles to work. Don't get me wrong , she loves her car, but for one person, it is awful lot of space. I didn't like the tallness of the Escape but do I like the hunkered down look of the MKC, could be a good replacement with the tow package next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 On the other hand, within 5 years my wife and I will probably have had two more children, bringing the total up to 4. She'll end up getting a minivan for herself. Me, I don't think I'll be ready to go back to FWD for myself just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 the only I know so far is that it will share the F150 platform. The Expedition and Navigator will have an all-aluminum body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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