RichardJensen Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Where are you getting Warranty costs from? THIS is what I wrote: Ford seems to have had higher than expected warranty costs associated with it. I have made the operative word gigantic so that you have no excuse for failing to read it. I base my INFERENCE on this: http://www.fordproblems.com/tsbs/Focus/2013/ Count the number of DCT related TSBs, and compare them to every other vehicle system. and this: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/transmission-woes-addressed-by-ford-but-too-late-for-consumer-reports/?_r=0 "The brand’s PowerShift transmission was cited by Consumer Reports on Tuesday as a reason for the automaker’s decline in the magazine’s annual reliability survey." Frankly, no one with an ounce of sense would argue that the DCT has been a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Dearborn Michigan, USA. Uh, no. The DCT is a Getrag-Ford JV in Cologne, Germany. You get one more guess where the DCT was developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Uh, no. The DCT is a Getrag-Ford JV in Cologne, Germany. You get one more guess where the DCT was developed. the Dry DCT for all ford's in made in mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 THIS is what I wrote: I have made the operative word gigantic so that you have no excuse for failing to read it. I base my INFERENCE on this: http://www.fordproblems.com/tsbs/Focus/2013/ Count the number of DCT related TSBs, and compare them to every other vehicle system. and this: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/transmission-woes-addressed-by-ford-but-too-late-for-consumer-reports/?_r=0 "The brand’s PowerShift transmission was cited by Consumer Reports on Tuesday as a reason for the automaker’s decline in the magazine’s annual reliability survey." Frankly, no one with an ounce of sense would argue that the DCT has been a success. So you don;t know how much Warranty costs are for the DCT, thanks for answering. The Focus has 7 issues while the Fusion has 6 Transmission issues. http://www.fordproblems.com/tsbs/Fusion/2013/ Consumer Reports is a horrible source for information and has ZERO credibility on BON. I am disappointed you are citing them as a Source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 So you don;t know how much Warranty costs are for the DCT, thanks for answering. Troll, troll, troll your boat...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Consumer Reports is a horrible source for information That judgment was not based on CU's testing, it was based on extensive complaints from their subscribers. Do you think that subscriber complaints are irrelevant because they are CU subscribers? Do you think that people were every bit as happy with the DCT as they were with a conventional automatic? And that Ford has not had more issues with the DCT than they would have had with a conventional automatic? You think that the widespread complaints about *this* transmission are so much stuff and nonsense? That the multiple issues reported on this forum (at least three members have either personally had or know someone who had DCT issues) have resulted in *no* additional costs to Ford beyond their budget for this transmission? And regardless of where the DCT is *manufactured*, it was *engineered* in Europe. Edited December 16, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Considering my daughter's 2012 Focus almost left her stranded 20 miles from home last Friday night due to a transmission problem and it's the 4th time it's acted up - I'm with RJ on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I had a co-worker who had a Focus rental on our last business trip and he was constantly complaining about the transmission. He was on the phone constantly with the rental agency trying to trade it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I had a co-worker who had a Focus rental on our last business trip and he was constantly complaining about the transmission. He was on the phone constantly with the rental agency trying to trade it out. The only driveability issue I've seen is when you're backing up and let off he gas it freewheels in neutral. Feels very strange but works fine. My daughter has complained about some bucking/stuttering but I've not been able to replicate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Simple solution, go 3 pedal manual and all of these little complaints vanish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) The feel of a powershift is more "familiar" to drivers with manual transmission experience, it can be very off putting to people who have only experienced automatic transmissions. Without SFE, the best a 2.0 Focus with powershift can achieve is a 37 mpg official rating, the heavier Fusion 1.5 EB auto is only 1 mpg less. So it's highly likely that a 6F auto could have filled the bill and got similar fuel economy - Ford Europe probably didn't even consider it because the bulk of their business is already manual trans and power shift customers anyway. Edited December 16, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I've had personal seat time in a Fiesta with the DCT and it was a miserable experience. I spent a lot of tim crawling around in city traffic jams and it flat out could not decide on how to handle the experience, holding gear a LOT longer than it should, then sometimes quickly shifting to second and third, causing the whole car to shake as it bucked and tried to kill with the ECU valiantly working to keep it from dying. If it had been a full stick, I could have just crawled around in second, but the DCT didn't want to hold in the gear. Once up to speed, it behaved splendidly, but, crawling around in city traffic, every shift was pained, resulting in noise, jerking of the driveline, and just a generaly harsh experience. I've been a passenger in a Focus with the DCT that has been back to the dealer a couple times for "fixes to the transmission" and, while it did behave a bit better in traffic than the fiesta, it still wasn't a picnic in traffic. A co-worker recently purchased mazda 3s hatchback and the experience is night and day different. Its behavior in traffic is incredibly docile, the acceleration is excellent for the vehicle, and not once did the transmission's behavior intrude on the experience of riding in the vehicle. The kicker, the Mazda, with more power, a traditional automatic, and a boat load of options increasing its weight was averaging 2 mpg better than the Focus from earlier in the paragraph. Both drivers live in the same area, commute to the same building, and take similar routes. This is the issue. The DCT isn't doing Ford any favors unless they absolutely have to have it to keep the Focus competitive with respect to fuel economy numbers. Yes, I realize that what I said above can be considered anecdotal, but, its no different than what I see on here and other forums every day. The DCT is an albatross around Ford's neck in that segment and either needs a complete rethinking and reimplementation or needs to be replaced with a 6AT or CVT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Simple solution, go 3 pedal manual and all of these little complaints vanish Not mpg. Most manuals are not as fuel efficient as the CVTs and DCTs and newer TC automatics even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not mpg. Most manuals are not as fuel efficient as the CVTs and DCTs and newer TC automatics even. Depends on how you drive it. You have far greater control over efficiency without s computer telling you what gear you should be in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) It also may be a case that the Fusion is now way more popular than Focus will ever be and that Ford should keep building out Fusion in preference to making Focus measurably better.... just a thought. Edit, Ford Europe and Ford Asia Pacific now sell 1.0 Ecoboost with 6F auto trans, not Powershift DCT. I think that's a big statement for increased understanding of customer expectations with an "automatic". Edited December 16, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Depends on how you drive it. You have far greater control over efficiency without s computer telling you what gear you should be in I have virtually complete control over gear selection with selectshift. What it does buy you is the ability to coast with the clutch in. And it doesn't really matter what mpg you get on the street - for the mfr only CAFE matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 not sure that's correct Akirby...manuals don't get the EPA numbers when TESTED, in real life the exact opposite happens in my experience, and I have owned 4 Fiestas, only one was manual and it trounced the Autos. All of my manual trans cars have gotten better than their auto equivalents based on what customers have told me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Fact - automatics still get better EPA ratings which is what counts for CAFE. I said you have the ABILITY to control your gears in selectshift mode - but hardly anyone actually does that with an auto all the time. And you still have the clutch advantage, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 irony, the CVT in the freestyle, the regular 6 speed auto got better mileage................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I also prefer the engine braking a manual displays over an auto....something Im really familiar with riding the bike all the time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I also prefer the engine braking a manual displays over an auto....something Im really familiar with riding the bike all the time.... I didn't say anything about preference or pleasure. My mustang and/or porsche will be manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 buy two Porsches, put on in the front of the house, one in the back...front and rear Porsches.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What it does buy you is the ability to coast with the clutch in. Automatics with ADFS will get better fuel economy than that (if done properly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Automatics with ADFS will get better fuel economy than that (if done properly). What does Active Directory Federation Services have to do with Fuel Economy? Did you mean cylinder deactivation? It's very hard to keep that engaged - the slightest throttle pressure seems to re-activate it. And it would also apply to manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What does Active Directory Federation Services have to do with Fuel Economy? Did you mean cylinder deactivation? It's very hard to keep that engaged - the slightest throttle pressure seems to re-activate it. And it would also apply to manuals. See, Windows domain systems get better fuel economy than non-domain systems. Active Deceleration Fuel Shutoff. As you coast, it shuts the fuel off. Doesn't apply to manuals when you push the clutch in, otherwise it would die. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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