RichardJensen Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Among manufacturers overall, Ford's sales performance last month was subpar once again. Right. Because there's never going to be another economic downturn, and therefore Ford should be carrying excess capacity even in the best possible times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it's not like the Ford brand outsold everyone else in May or anything like that. Right. It's the fact that Ford Motor Company (as a whole) registered the greatest decrease in U.S. sales during May '15 compared to May '14 among its peers: American Honda, Toyota Motor Sales USA, Nissan North America, Volkswagen Group, General Motors, and FCA. Edited June 3, 2015 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Right. Because there's never going to be another economic downturn, and therefore Ford should be carrying excess capacity even in the best possible times. Excess capacity is an issue throughout the global automotive industry, and Ford is no exception. In terms of being prepared for the next economic downturn, as an investor I'm more concerned about Ford's capital structure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Right. It's the fact that Ford Motor Company (as a whole) registered the greatest decrease in U.S. sales during May '15 compared to May '14 among its peers: American Honda, Toyota Motor Sales USA, Nissan North America, Volkswagen Group, General Motors, and FCA. And. Still. Outsold. Almost. Every. Other. Company. In. The. Country. Right about now you sound like a guy who would watch Don Larsen's perfect game in the '56 World Series and then call him a mediocre player because he went 0-for-2 with a strikeout at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Right. It's the fact that Ford Motor Company (as a whole) registered the greatest decrease in U.S. sales during May '15 compared to May '14 among its peers: American Honda, Toyota Motor Sales USA, Nissan North America, Volkswagen Group, General Motors, and FCA. You realize that that "greatest decrease" is equal to 3,300 fewer cars sold. That really is not that much at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Just imagine what could be if Ford wasn't constrained by production capacity and supplier short falls. Maybe it's time to switch gears from "survival mode" to add a little more production in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I visited my local Ford-Lincoln dealer on Sunday, when it was closed. There was a long row of MKCs in the back of the lot, in several colors and trim levels. Our dealer has plenty to buy if you want one. One problem is that this dealer is the only Lincoln dealer left in the Harrisburg area, but ALL of the Lincolns are parked in the very back of the lot, where they can't be seen by people driving by or walking by the dealership. (This dealership is located along the main thoroughfare running through Harrisburg's western suburbs.) If this dealer is any indication, Ford has a lot of work to do if wants dealers to promote Lincolns. Edited June 3, 2015 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamamultitasker Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 aneekr, I believe your chart is accurate, but misleading since it probably includes the finance arm of Ford. The last I looked, the Ford balance sheet was rock solid and the finance division appropriately capitalized. It's hard to tell without the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 This again? Guys, the only product that has a chance of being added to MAP is a potential compact Lincoln that's based off the Focus, and even that's up in the air right now. It won't be the Escape and it certainly won't be MKC. It's just not going to happen. If it was, they wouldn't be cutting a shift. You can cut a shift and add it back later when demand is there. Figure the next contract is going until 2019 which means it will include the next C car platform which will require upgrades in the plant, that's when you do your changes to allow more variation in product to be produced. I also wonder if a plant or 2 won't be closed in the next contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You can cut a shift and add it back later when demand is there. Figure the next contract is going until 2019 which means it will include the next C car platform which will require upgrades in the plant, that's when you do your changes to allow more variation in product to be produced. I also wonder if a plant or 2 won't be closed in the next contract. it's still not going to happen. There's not enough room on the floor for the parts needed for another model that's so drastically different than what's already built there. You people do realize that when Ford says MAP is their most flexible plant, they mean that is the only plant in the world that produces PHEV, FHEV, BEV and conventional drivetrain vehicles all on the same line right? As for closing 2 plants, not a chance. Ford is capacity constrained enough as it is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A powertrain or stamping plant could be closed if noting is allocated to them in the next contact. Afaik, Dearborn Engine has no product after late next year. Woodhaven is dead man walking until a plan is developed for it (I think Ford has plans in its back pocket). With the investments being made in Mexico, we could have one too many transmission plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Excess capacity is an issue throughout the global automotive industry, and Ford is no exception. Excess capacity is absolutely not an issue for Ford in the US market, the market to which you are referring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) A powertrain or stamping plant could be closed if noting is allocated to them in the next contact. Afaik, Dearborn Engine has no product after late next year. Woodhaven is dead man walking until a plan is developed for it (I think Ford has plans in its back pocket). With the investments being made in Mexico, we could have one too many transmission plants.With all the work going on in Livonia and Van Dyke, I can't imagine either of them closing any time soon. Also doesn't Dearborn Engine make engines for the Focus and Escape? (I forgot about parts plants) I could see Romeo closing before Dearborn Engine, and shipping all of their work to Dearborn. Edited June 3, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 aneekr, I believe your chart is accurate, but misleading since it probably includes the finance arm of Ford. The last I looked, the Ford balance sheet was rock solid and the finance division appropriately capitalized. It's hard to tell without the numbers. Fords automotive debt is in the ballpark with the other company's. Ford Credit has large debt that they turn into a big profit. The debt is secure to a point.This is a money machine for Ford. This is a competitive advantage for Ford. Ford has some problems,but it is not their debt to capital structure. Put it another way,Ford Credit skewed the ratio, but over the last 3 years it covered Ford of Europe's 3.5 billion dollars in losses. Borrowed money well managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) "...It's the fact that Ford Motor Company (as a whole) registered the greatest decrease in U.S. sales during May '15 compared to May '14 among its peers: American Honda, Toyota Motor Sales USA, Nissan North America, Volkswagen Group, General Motors, and FCA." Nissan, Koreans, and Toyota now dump into fleets and no longer sell for full sticker, like in the 80's. And GM and FCA? LOL, they can still teeter into bailout mode again, so let them make all the rental cars and future BHPH sleds. VW? :P:P:P $39 a month leases on boring Jettas will surely make them the most profit! Edited June 3, 2015 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) informed at a meeting today, California sales UP 7%....and that's with supply severely choked by Rail Car constraints.... Edited June 3, 2015 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Right. I simply do not see static sales as an issue given where we're at in this business cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 With all the work going on in Livonia and Van Dyke, I can't imagine either of them closing any time soon. Also doesn't Dearborn Engine make engines for the Focus and Escape? (I forgot about parts plants) I could see Romeo closing before Dearborn Engine, and shipping all of their work to Dearborn. The product at Dearborn only goes into the current Focus, and it disappears with the new model in '17. Never let plant investment fool you into thinking your plant won't close. My home plant had a massive investment a couple of years before it closed. So did Norfolk. And you forgot Sharonville. They make transmissions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The product at Dearborn only goes into the current Focus, and it disappears with the new model in '17. Never let plant investment fool you into thinking your plant won't close. My home plant had a massive investment a couple of years before it closed. So did Norfolk. And you forgot Sharonville. They make transmissions too. Heh, I always forget Sharonville even exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Never let plant investment fool you into thinking your plant won't close. My home plant had a massive investment a couple of years before it closed. So did Norfolk. Lots of times its because of pre-exisiting requirements from the government. When my dad worked at Edison, they spend big money on something that was finished 6 months before the plant was closed. They pulled it out and used it some place else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Glad to see the Explorer selling like hot cakes, proving the nay sayers wrong, as usual. Some claimed "no one wants a unibody Ford SUV', or my favorite, "The D3 platform is a flop, kill it off". Also, cops love them, and the Crown Vic is ancient history. Even taxi companies abandoned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 @630...don't forget it also lacks off-road chops and cant tow much.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm glad Ford is finally making some money on D3. But it's not an SUV. Not in my book anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I'm glad Ford is finally making some money on D3. But it's not an SUV. Not in my book anyway. There's a big difference between a Utility and a genuine 4WD, I still believe there's room for a soft-roader and an off-roader. As successful as Explorer is, I'm sure that a 4WD T6 Everest would account for good monthly sales with either 3.2 diesel or an Ecoboost. Edited June 5, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 @630...don't forget it also lacks off-road chops and cant tow much.......... Well, 90% of common SUV drivers never go 'off road' and tow what? Get an F-150 4 door, or an Expedition to tow. Going Off Road? Buy a Jeep Wrangler. Sales show that there's no need to have all Ford's SUV's be 'heavy duty'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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