Biker16 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The Sub compact CUV segment represents an opportunity to capture buyers who want a form-factor at a certain price Example: buyer-A wants a CUV for the usual reasons. but can only afford a Focus. before the B-CUV segment that buyer would have to look at a used vehicle to meet their price point, but with he lower price CUV like the Trax, HR-V etc, you can move Civic and Cruze buyers into a more profitable form Factor. this is an more salient issue because gas prices are lower making the Car form-factor less attractive. what ford is missing out on is the ability to capture those price sensitive buyers into a more profitable Form Factor (I.E. a B-car being sold a C-car prices) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Regardless of whether the spare tire is external, etc. the EcoSport small CUV market is an emerging market that Ford needs to address in North America where CUV sales are exploding. I'd hate to see Ford being late to the party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-bird Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wonder if the designers couldn't sink the spare tire into the door somehow like the continental look. Even if had to use a space saver. Lift gate would need beefing I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) what ford is missing out on is the ability to capture those price sensitive buyers into a more profitable Form Factor (I.E. a B-car being sold a C-car prices) And the moment fuel prices drop, those buyers seem to change their mind and buy larger vehicles. While the Sub $20K market is still important, the priority must still be with maximizing sales of Escape, Edge, Explorer, Fusion and Focus. Any cars and utes that fall outside that zone are either cost or price constrained.. Focus and Fiesta sales are down at the moment which is to be expected, so it's time to hit the incentives and give buyers reason to purchase them at the moment. I have been in an Ecosport, just my gut feeling but I think a lot of Americans would be put off by the size, when you see them in the flesh, they're a lot smaller than you expect and that goes for the interior too - Focus hatch is a lot more roomy for the same money. I'd like to see next gen Focus and B-Car go to Mexico and for MAP to build next gen Escape and an AWD Utility version of the Focus hatch, I think that would better balance Ford's needs going forward. Edited June 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Why does the spare tire have to go for the US? That's actually nice and convenient. there... rather than trying to fish it out from under the damn thing Also EcoSport really is a terrible name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 And the moment fuel prices drop, those buyers seem to change their mind and buy larger vehicles. While the Sub $20K market is still important, the priority must still be with maximizing sales of Escape, Edge, Explorer, Fusion and Focus. Any cars and utes that fall outside that zone are either cost or price constrained.. Focus and Fiesta sales are down at the moment which is to be expected, so it's time to hit the incentives and give buyers reason to purchase them at the moment. I have been in an Ecosport, just my gut feeling but I think a lot of Americans would be put off by the size, when you see them in the flesh, they're a lot smaller than you expect and that goes for the interior too - Focus hatch is a lot more roomy for the same money. I'd like to see next gen Focus and B-Car go to Mexico and for MAP to build next gen Escape and an AWD Utility version of the Focus hatch, I think that would better balance Ford's needs going forward. why would they take the Focus from MAP and replace it with Escape, and build Escape out of 2 plants? That doesn't really make much sense. Why would they build a Utility version of the Focus when they have the Escape on the same platform? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Why does the spare tire have to go for the US? Because on such a tiny vehicle it looks really stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) why would they take the Focus from MAP and replace it with Escape, and build Escape out of 2 plants? That doesn't really make much sense. Why would they build a Utility version of the Focus when they have the Escape on the same platform? Because if the next gen B and C cars are on the same platform, it's an opportunity to consolidate production to low cost Mexico and Give MAP a more profitable vehicle to produce right on the market's door step. The AWD Focus Hatch would be similar to a Subaru XV and be different enough to capture different buyers ( kinda like baby Edge Vs baby Explorer) Edge production is still a little constrained, I can only imagine what sales would be with more production and supply, especially with next gen engines and power trains. we think 30K/month is great, what if sales could be boosted to 45K or 50K per month.. Edited June 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 And the moment fuel prices drop, those buyers seem to change their mind and buy larger vehicles. While the Sub $20K market is still important, the priority must still be with maximizing sales of Escape, Edge, Explorer, Fusion and Focus. Any cars and utes that fall outside that zone are either cost or price constrained.. Focus and Fiesta sales are down at the moment which is to be expected, so it's time to hit the incentives and give buyers reason to purchase them at the moment. I have been in an Ecosport, just my gut feeling but I think a lot of Americans would be put off by the size, when you see them in the flesh, they're a lot smaller than you expect and that goes for the interior too - Focus hatch is a lot more roomy for the same money. I'd like to see next gen Focus and B-Car go to Mexico and for MAP to build next gen Escape and an AWD Utility version of the Focus hatch, I think that would better balance Ford's needs going forward. You're not going to sell that many Escapes + Wannabe Subaru XVs. You're talking about selling about 400k Escapes/MKCs + 200k XVs in the Americas, or some other fraction thereabouts. I'm not buying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) You're not going to sell that many Escapes + Wannabe Subaru XVs. You're talking about selling about 400k Escapes/MKCs + 200k XVs in the Americas, or some other fraction thereabouts. I'm not buying that. Maybe I can convince you..(maybe not) Last month, Louisville produced 32,792 Escapes and 3,598 MKCs which is pretty much where sales area lthough inventory of Escape is still tight, a second plant would be welcome in delivering a different shipping point for distribution in the northern states. Transportation logistics may also be playing a hand in limiting Ford's ability to get stock to dealers... I threw in the Subaru XV copy because having driven an Ecosport, I think a jacked up AWD Focus hatch would be a better fit than the Ecosport... I just don't see it (Ecosport) pleasing enough American buyers... Edited June 13, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Transportation for northern states is a moot point. Louisville isn't that far from Detroit in the grand scheme of things. If anything, Louisville is more ideal being more centrally located in the country, with far better access to the rail system among pretty much all of the Class I railroads, rather than just the 2 in the Detroit area (4 if you count the canadian railroads, and CN reaches Louisville via the old IC). I think there's a reason that Ford has largely left the small utility market in the US alone, and that is likely due to the redundancy it would cause among the Fiesta hatch, Focus hatch and Escape. Hell, I would even throw the C-max into that mix, even with its compromised cargo area. Might they do something like a XV copy and gain some fringe buyers? Maybe, but I don't see it any time soon. Edited June 13, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 One small tap in the back, and that'll turn into a $5K repair, easily. Visible spare looks "trendy" on a boxy Jeep, but with something as sophisticated and swoopy as a Fiesta, makes it look like a pimple. Europe forced that change from horrible sales and that was the main thing customers complained about. Hard interior plastics was the next. Ford NA needs product, and this would make a good addition, in the next few years, the entries in that segment will triple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Maybe I can convince you..(maybe not) Last month, Louisville produced 32,792 Escapes and 3,598 MKCs which is pretty much where sales area lthough inventory of Escape is still tight, a second plant would be welcome in delivering a different shipping point for distribution in the northern states. Transportation logistics may also be playing a hand in limiting Ford's ability to get stock to dealers... I threw in the Subaru XV copy because having driven an Ecosport, I think a jacked up AWD Focus hatch would be a better fit than the Ecosport... I just don't see it (Ecosport) pleasing enough American buyers... Right, but you're talking about adding a third to a half again as much Escape volume--I just don't the the market justifies that, especially since I would guess we're nearing a peak for annual sales volume before we adjust downward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Anyone know the day's supply of MKC? And where to find it for future reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) I don't think a "tall AWD focus" makes sense, that's what the Escape is. I don't see Ford adding Escape capacity - Initially (2001-2002?) there were two Escape plants (KCAP and Avon Lake) Edited June 14, 2015 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) I don't think a "tall AWD focus" makes sense, that's what the Escape is. I don't see Ford adding Escape capacity - Initially (2001-2002?) there were two Escape plants (KCAP and Avon Lake) Fair comment, just a though as an alternative to Ecosport by someone who has actually driven one... People have every right to disagree because there's no conformation "XV Focus" ever will be produced At the moment, Ford is taxed to the max with producing enough Escapes and MKC for US and Canada I simply wonder whether some of the problem is transport logistics from Louisville to all over the US and Canada A second plant even if shared with other products would enable a second distribution point. Right, but you're talking about adding a third to a half again as much Escape volume--I just don't the the market justifies that, especially since I would guess we're nearing a peak for annual sales volume before we adjust downward. Of course I'm painting a vision of "endless summer" but maybe that down turn is not as near or as sharp as we think. just my opinion but vehicles like Escape and Edge should be less affected by any slowdown but Large tucks and Utes probably will be. Lap of faith stuff and probably not enough business case to get there but who knows what Ford has planned, some see current platforms with short comings, I see them as unifiers - especially for supply base and the next generation being where Ford really shows its wares in diversity on less platforms. Too much blue sky? Anyone know the day's supply of MKC? And where to find it for future reference? Autonews.com - data center but subscription required MKC inventory as at June 1 = 9,000 (102 days) Edited June 14, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And guys, I'm not stubborn, I can see your POV on this too in terms of risk protection if the market tanks. I just choose to be a little more confident with certain segments that Ford can power on with if a down turn happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Fair comment, just a though as an alternative to Ecosport by someone who has actually driven one... People have every right to disagree because there's no conformation "XV Focus" ever will be produced At the moment, Ford is taxed to the max with producing enough Escapes and MKC for US and Canada I simply wonder whether some of the problem is transport logistics from Louisville to all over the US and Canada A second plant even if shared with other products would enable a second distribution point. Of course I'm painting a vision of "endless summer" but maybe that down turn is not as near or as sharp as we think. just my opinion but vehicles like Escape and Edge should be less affected by any slowdown but Large tucks and Utes probably will be. Lap of faith stuff and probably not enough business case to get there but who knows what Ford has planned, some see current platforms with short comings, I see them as unifiers - especially for supply base and the next generation being where Ford really shows its wares in diversity on less platforms. Too much blue sky? Autonews.com - data center but subscription required MKC inventory as at June 1 = 9,000 (102 days) Hm, and normal is around 60 days I think - I was wondering if MKC production could be sent/expanded somewhere else if it were supply constrained. But it appears it isn't. It's a great product - it's a shame that something like that ugly NX takes off just because of the L badge, whereas the MKC is overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Hm, and normal is around 60 days I think - I was wondering if MKC production could be sent/expanded somewhere else if it were supply constrained. But it appears it isn't. It's a great product - it's a shame that something like that ugly NX takes off just because of the L badge, whereas the MKC is overlooked. And this is what Lincoln is up against and why it can't afford to stand still with styling. What we like and dislike is not at issue, what sells is important and if that means changes, so be it.. The market is telling Ford and Lincoln what it wants and what it doesn't want - all they have to do is listen. Edited June 14, 2015 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Fair comment, just a though as an alternative to Ecosport by someone who has actually driven one... People have every right to disagree because there's no conformation "XV Focus" ever will be produced I get that, but a Focus XV wouldn't cost any less for Ford to make, or for someone to buy, than an Escape. One of the primary drivers in this segment is cost. A Focus XV wouldn't address that the way an Ecosport (or Fiesta/B-Max XV) could. At the moment, Ford is taxed to the max with producing enough Escapes and MKC for US and Canada I simply wonder whether some of the problem is transport logistics from Louisville to all over the US and Canada Didn't seem to be an issue for the Explorer Edited June 14, 2015 by sullynd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And the moment fuel prices drop, those buyers seem to change their mind and buy larger vehicles. While the Sub $20K market is still important, the priority must still be with maximizing sales of Escape, Edge, Explorer, Fusion and Focus. Any cars and utes that fall outside that zone are either cost or price constrained.. If you allow for buyer preference toward CUVs people will leav your cars for comparably priced CUVs, except since ford has no entrant buyer are looking elsewhere. With 5 entrants in this segment now up from only 1 entrant 2 years ago, buyer have a choice. Focus and Fiesta sales are down at the moment which is to be expected, so it's time to hit the incentives and give buyers reason to purchase them at the moment. I disagree. I have been in an Ecosport, just my gut feeling but I think a lot of Americans would be put off by the size, when you see them in the flesh, they're a lot smaller than you expect and that goes for the interior too - Focus hatch is a lot more roomy for the same money. I'd like to see next gen Focus and B-Car go to Mexico and for MAP to build next gen Escape and an AWD Utility version of the Focus hatch, I think that would better balance Ford's needs going forward. the Ecosport WB 99.2 L - spare 158 L +spare 168.3 W 69.5 H 64.8 Chevy Trax WB 100.6 L 167.2 W 69.9 H 65.9 they are not that far apart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Hm, and normal is around 60 days I think - I was wondering if MKC production could be sent/expanded somewhere else if it were supply constrained. But it appears it isn't. It's a great product - it's a shame that something like that ugly NX takes off just because of the L badge, whereas the MKC is overlooked. the NX is sexy, youthful and Fun. the MKc isn't. it is kinda pedestrian looking in a youth oriented segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Fair comment, just a though as an alternative to Ecosport by someone who has actually driven one... People have every right to disagree because there's no conformation "XV Focus" ever will be produced At the moment, Ford is taxed to the max with producing enough Escapes and MKC for US and Canada I simply wonder whether some of the problem is transport logistics from Louisville to all over the US and Canada A second plant even if shared with other products would enable a second distribution point. Of course I'm painting a vision of "endless summer" but maybe that down turn is not as near or as sharp as we think. just my opinion but vehicles like Escape and Edge should be less affected by any slowdown but Large tucks and Utes probably will be. Lap of faith stuff and probably not enough business case to get there but who knows what Ford has planned, some see current platforms with short comings, I see them as unifiers - especially for supply base and the next generation being where Ford really shows its wares in diversity on less platforms. Too much blue sky? Autonews.com - data center but subscription required MKC inventory as at June 1 = 9,000 (102 days) Ford has a Second production site in Spain.Again ford isn't behaving like a global automaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 the NX is sexy, youthful and Fun. the MKc isn't. it is kinda pedestrian looking in a youth oriented segment. The NX is far from sexy in my book. I hate Lexus' predator styling, and yes I'm in the demographic they're targeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The NX is far from sexy in my book. I hate Lexus' predator styling, and yes I'm in the demographic they're targeting. What demographic are you? I am a 37 old urban professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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