After 'chicken tax,' a flood of foreign trucks?

[BlackHorse]

I guess we'll just overlook the fact that a rebadged RAM 700 has already been spotted testing in Michigan.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/01/ram-700-fiat-small-truck-mexico/

[Anthony]

I guess we'll just overlook the fact that a rebadged RAM 700 has already been spotted testing in Michigan.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/01/ram-700-fiat-small-truck-mexico/

 

The Ranger has been seen testing in the US as well as the Everest. It means nothing.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

The Ranger has been seen testing in the US as well as the Everest. It means nothing.

Very true. I've seen the old Territory testing (in right hand drive, no less) as well as several Escape/Kugas with Chinese lettering. Even right hand drive S-550 Mustangs recently.

 

For all we know those RAM whatever they call its are for Mexico or somewhere else where RAM already has a presence.

Edited July 1, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo

[RichardJensen]

That's exactly what they're for.

 

The Ram 700 is sold in Mexico which doesn't have the chicken tax.

[jpd80]

Precisely, just because out of town vehicles are seen around Detroit does not imply any assessment for local use.

Remember the excitement when T6 Ranger showed up in the US for testing purposes, the press when wild with speculation...

 

Ranger is available in Mexico, I'm still a little surprised that it's sold on the US's back doorstep and still not get an opportunity..

Maybe Ford really is that sensitive about it competing with F150 sales, I think it might be a great little diversion for those

buyers wanting something a little smaller or different flavor to full sized US trucks.

Edited July 1, 2015 by jpd80

[Bryan1]

Read the closing statements. It explains all.

 

Fourth, some automakers told Automotive News that the chicken tax is not the only barrier keeping their smaller pickups out of the

United States.

 

Toyota spokesman Scott Vazin said the size of the Hilux would make it a "tweener" in the U.S., overlapping too much

with the full-size Tundra and midsize Tacoma. A Volkswagen spokesman said the company, which has said the tariff was the biggest

impediment to selling the Amarok in America, now also doubts whether the truck is the proper size for the U.S. And a Mazda

spokesman said the BT-50 would be a mismatch for Mazda's sporty, affordable-premium U.S. brand identity.

[jpd80]

Read the closing statements. It explains all.

 

Fourth, some automakers told Automotive News that the chicken tax is not the only barrier keeping their smaller pickups out of the

United States.

 

Toyota spokesman Scott Vazin said the size of the Hilux would make it a "tweener" in the U.S., overlapping too much

with the full-size Tundra and midsize Tacoma. A Volkswagen spokesman said the company, which has said the tariff was the biggest

impediment to selling the Amarok in America, now also doubts whether the truck is the proper size for the U.S. And a Mazda

spokesman said the BT-50 would be a mismatch for Mazda's sporty, affordable-premium U.S. brand identity.

No one expects Toyota to import Hilux when it makes Tacoma locally in the US, it's an either / or proposition.

And VW is not sure of itself, that's why Amorok isn't already here as a locally built product.

 

There's a back story to Ford AP winning the contract over Mazda for the T6 Ranger that replaced the previous Mazda design.

Noq thet Mazda is "divorced" from Ford and now cosying up to Toyota, I expect the Mazda will probably change directions in the future.

Don't rule out a Future BT-50 Pick up shared with Toyota, maybe Tacoma redesign given to mazda to unite Hilux and Tacoma globally..

Edited July 1, 2015 by jpd80

[jasonj80]

Even right hand drive S-550 Mustangs recently.

 

I do like the Export Taillights on the Mustang as well as the MKC much better than the US ones. The White lenses just clean up the back on the car.

 

 

The Ranger would be in the US/Canada now if it made business sense, it must stand on its own merit. It has nothing to do with the F-150 sales, that is an internet roomer. It has no impact on why the Ranger is not sold here. NONE.

 

Ford can't get enough volume out of a plant that made just the Ranger it needs other product, what other product can you put in a plant that also makes it, Everest, Troller, Explorer? You need 250,000 - 300,000 units at a plant and a Ranger might hit 120,000 in the NAFTA region, so you need additional product. Do you have a plant that has a spare capacity of that volume in the world? If yes what are the trade agreements? How will it impact your CAFE numbers? What product mix do you expect? If the Ranger shows up here, it will be either imported or added to another assembly plant.

 

When DTP was planned/built in 2000-2003 it was setup to allow it to build the Ranger as well with the plan at Edison and St Paul would close, after the 2001 recession Ford realized there wasn't 2 1/2 plant volume of F-150's sales and DTP became F-150 exclusive. The decision was made to close Ontario Truck and not retool it for the next F-150. That is also when Ford was in the middle of the Nassar/Ford Battle and the first real signs that the company was in real trouble.

[akirby]

 

The Ranger would be in the US/Canada now if it made business sense, it must stand on its own merit. It has nothing to do with the F-150 sales, that is an internet roomer. It has no impact on why the Ranger is not sold here. NONE.

 

I agree with your premise, but I wouldn't say that it has zero impact. Ford still has to account for any cannibalized F150 sales in the business case. If you think you can sell 100K Rangers but 20K of those would displace a more profitable F150 sale, and if you assume the F150 is twice as profitable, then you're only adding a net 60K of sales from a profit standpoint. So it's not that Ford is protecting F150 (which is what folks like to say) - it's just that it makes the business case that much harder.

[rmc523]

I do like the Export Taillights on the Mustang as well as the MKC much better than the US ones. The White lenses just clean up the back on the car.

 

I didn't realize the Mustang had white lenses for export. Do you have a picture of the MKC anywhere? I can't find one.

[Biker16]

 

The peak demand for compact trucks did not occur back when the US let imports ship over beds separate from cabs for "Domestic Assembly" which effectively circumvented the chicken tax (cf Datsun, Toyota & VW compacts), it occurred about a decade and a half later (mid to late 90s), when the products were thoroughly "Americanized".

 

Nor do I think that there will be an influx of 'low cost compact trucks', given that the overseas trucks built by Ford, Toyota and Nissan are all midsizers.

 

No manufacturer is going to try to get a beachhead in the US on the basis of a small, low cost compact truck--the market is minuscule and sales volumes for even a small dealer base would be starvation level.

 

That leaves what? Hyundai/Kia? As the only manufacturer likely to benefit, and since they don't make trucks anywhere else, why would they build them in Korea and send them here?

 

if you folow the logic that compact buyer left the market because of price and the gap between full and midsize truck was too small, you can also foresee a point when, cheap imported compact pickups will bring some of those buyers back into the segment causing it to grow again.

 

the barriers to entry for the full size segment has always been the manufacturing foot print not the cost of development, so yes you could See imported full sized pickups as well. they wouldn't not have alot of volume but they will put pricing pressure on the segment.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Biker16

[Biker16]

 

Frankly I don't put any stock in the "it won't sell here" point of view because this is the same website that swore hatchbacks would never sell in the US. Now Ford has two of them in their lineup that both sell pretty well.

 

Wow

[rmc523]

 

if you folow the logic that compact buyer left the market because of price and the gap between full and midsize truck was too small, you can also foresee a point when, cheap imported compact pickups will bring some of those buyers back into the segment causing it to grow again.

 

the barriers to entry for the full size segment has always been the manufacturing foot print not the cost of development, so yes you could See imported full sized pickups as well. they wouldn't not have alot of volume but they will put pricing pressure on the segment.

 

I don't think any of us would argue that there is a market for a cheap, compact truck. But what we do argue is what is the cost of trying to pursue that market, and additionally what is the potential gain and/or profit from pursuing that market? I personally think that Ford will re-enter that market, but not with a remake of the (US) Ranger, or importing the ROW Ranger - we've discussed reasons for the ROW Ranger (and products like the Hilux). I think we'll see something either Transit Connect-based or something coupled with a smaller Bronco (likely on that c-platform)....so a truck version of a Bronco. That would give a Bronco program a platform-mate as well as they'd be able to leverage the Bronco name on this new truck without running into a conflict of using the Ranger name.

 

What full size pickups would be imported from overseas? Are there even trucks like F-150 and Super Duty elsewhere in the world? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

[RichardJensen]

 

you can also foresee a point when, cheap imported compact pickups will bring some of those buyers back into the segment causing it to grow again.

 

But where are those compact trucks going to come from? ROW trucks are creeping upward in size, at least w/mainstream mfrs.

 

So if it's a company that has no other presence in the US, why would they build up a dealer network to sell a tiny truck?

[akirby]

And why would they even bother to try and introduce a cheap full-sized pickup that could only be sold in North America - especially when it's a market they don't understand?

[RichardJensen]

Well, I think the idea is that a cheap tiny truck built and sold elsewhere in the TPP/whatever the other one is called would be easier to import to the US after the treaties are in effect, but the only companies with cheap tiny trucks are those that are not building US market competitive product.

[jasonj80]

 

I didn't realize the Mustang had white lenses for export. Do you have a picture of the MKC anywhere? I can't find one.

Sorry should have been the MKZ, MKC uses a similar design as the US to the rear but the lights looks more like the Durango at night and the silver on the US models is where the Amber Turn Signals are on the export. Below are the MKZ and Mustang Photos.

 

[630land]

"I'm not buying a ferrin Ranger!" "

 

"Bring MINE back! And I won't pay over 1996 price!"

[Biker16]

but these are a no brainer

 

[RichardJensen]

Arguably, Ford would have a case for those w/domestic assembly of the Transit Connect.

[rmc523]

 

Sorry should have been the MKZ, MKC uses a similar design as the US to the rear but the lights looks more like the Durango at night and the silver on the US models is where the Amber Turn Signals are on the export. Below are the MKZ and Mustang Photos.

 

 

 

Ah, yes. I'd seen the MKZ like that before. And was able to find the Mustang - it does look pretty cool - actually reminds me of the "light through chrome" of the Continental......come to think of it - I wonder if they could offer the clear/chrome look in the ROW Continental.

 

Anyway, I always thought the clear space in the MKC should've been the amber signals instead of using the same brake light as the turn signal. Oh well.

[Biker16]

Arguably, Ford would have a case for those w/domestic assembly of the Transit Connect.

 

or move all transit connect production to a TPP country, the only issue with non-domestic TC production is "Buy america" Rules for government purchases.

[RichardJensen]

Well, Ford's already leaving that business on the table and they seem to be doing okay.

 

Tough to find capacity in the US for it.

[bzcat]

Well, Ford's already leaving that business on the table and they seem to be doing okay.

 

Tough to find capacity in the US for it.

 

I think a HUGE Govt order could sway that decision... e.g. USPS van tender.

[rmc523]

 

I think a HUGE Govt order could sway that decision... e.g. USPS van tender.

I've thought for a while that TC would make a good USPS van.