Admiral Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I never knew mediocrity was a bold move. Way to go Ford! You'd think the person that pulled the trigger on this project would have realized they were firing a blank. I have a bad feeling the Edge will land with a thud, just like this coifed turd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Am I the only one who likes the front end on the Navigator? I didnt like it in the photos, but in person its much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgey Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) The Navigator also has THE worst quality record of any car in the industry. The update is a design catastrophe and is hardly suffecient to sustain sales. Edited August 30, 2006 by Edgey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 This is another mediocre refreshened product Ford has launched. The 6 speed helps, but doesn't make up for lack of engine necessary for this playing field. I'm not insulted by the interior dashboard, although I agree with the instrumentation....so much more could have been done. Not sure who the hell approved the grille, but it is hideous. And they KNEW this too because they have a package that adds it, therefore, it's something they knew didn't work well for some other consumer clinics they may have shown it to. Whats sad is, that the Navigator helped defined, if not, was the leader in this segment. WHo would have thought back in 98, a luxurified Expy would bring all these players along to market. And that now, it has resorted to this mediocredy. As I have said, if you do something, do it right, if not, dont bother... And this is one of those moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 You shouldn't have to hope for an update from a brand new vehicle. Lincoln totally dropped the ball. You're absolutely right, we shouldn't. But we all know that for some reason, Ford will never introduce a vehicle right off the bat with everything they should. The Fusion was introduced without an AWD option and without side airbags standard. Now the Navigator has a lesser engine then it had in 2004 (when it still had a 32V DOHC engine) and a grille too ugly for the JC Whitney catalog and they call it "New". What an embarrassment. It's really simple, change the ugly ass grille (I hope the aftermarket already has one waiting), put 22" wheels on it and either offer the old Lightning/Harley engine (or supercharge the 3V 5.4) tuned to 400HP as an option (to make it competitive in magazine comparos) and that's it. Then it could be top 2 or 3 instead of dead last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) The Navigator also has THE worst quality record of any car in the industry. The update is a design catastrophe and is hardly suffecient to sustain sales. Not true. JD Power Associates study on 2005 vehicles. Problems per a hundred vehicles. Lincoln was third on the list at 151, behind Lexus at 139, and Porsche at 149. Ford was at 231. Cadillac at 175. Merc at 195. Inifinity at 178. Over a three year study, Lincoln was still high on the charts for reliability. Edited August 30, 2006 by 92merc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Not true. JD Power Associates study on 2005 vehicles. Problems per a hundred vehicles. Lincoln was third on the list at 151, behind Lexus at 139, and Porsche at 149. Ford was at 231. Cadillac at 175. Merc at 195. Inifinity at 178. Over a three year study, Lincoln was still high on the charts for reliability. More due to the OTHER Lincolns in the lineup. The Navigator itself is rather trouble prone from what I have heard. This new one ain't gonna help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) Had to look it up to see what you guys were talking about. Seems like it's saying "look away, I'm hidious". Some interesting comments from some other folks. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/08/the-800...coln-navigator/ Edited August 30, 2006 by Hemiman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Once again, I question whether Ford has the ability to bring product to market that is competitive. My opinion is that the current product development group is too wrapped up in the psycho-graphics of the consumer to remember that they are building cars and not fashion accessories. Just not enough real cars guys left. Don't you think for a minute that a real car guy would never let a vehicle out the door that performed more poorly than the product it replaced, and below the standard of every competitive product? Somehow I bet that they never even drove the beast. Probably, they just checked off a list of hot button items that scored on the "must have" feature list. If the product development people are not misdirected, if this is the best they could do, then we are really in trouble. What it means is that all they had to work with was not even remotely enough. They had to take a chance on a cosmetic design that would polarize the product. Love it, or hate it, knowing that any strong opinion would be better than just complete apathy. Performance is a parity attribute in this class. You don't have to be the best, but you absolutely cannot be the worst. Ford MUST build at least in limited numbers, vehicles that offer better than adequate performance. If the test Navi was the fastest in the group, I can guarantee you that it would have changed the way people feel about the looks. The funky grill now stands for slow and clumsy, instead of powerful and agile. People would probably buy a lower powered and cheaper version, if they read revues of the halo version that were positive. How many V6 Mustangs get sold because they were "just like" a GT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVTCobra Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 What are the "AS-TESTED" prices in the comparrison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think the question needs to be asked, who's responsible for bringing uncompeititve vehicles to production. The keyword would be "define competitive". The 6A, IRS aren't enough to make it surpass the negatives. This is truely a negative from many angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 What are the "AS-TESTED" prices in the comparrison? Took me a second to get the mag back...lessess, here... Mercedes- $68,075 Audi- $64,520 Infiniti- $55,300 Cadillac- $66,110 SS Losertania- $59,015 The base prices were all in the 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The really, REALLY sad part of this is, and we all know it, they're using the same tune in the 5.4L 3V as it is installed in the Expy and NAvi. 300 HP, 360 lbs of torque. With some minor, and I do mean minor (change the ignition timing and fuel mapping to support premium gas, minor exhaust changes, etc) changes, a 3V 5.4L should be easily capable of 330 HP and 395+ lbs of torque. That would have at least made it mid-pack in the performance ballpark. Styling is too subjective in my opinion. I don't like the grill and find the interior not inspiring, but not bad either. If this is the best the T1 platform has to offer, why are they moving the F-150 to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 The instrument cluster might actually be form an Old Fairmont Wagon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo_diesel_focus Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 For goodness sake! I happen to think the new Lincoln Navigator looks neat. I think it will sell very well. It looks solid, classy and different and will no dout sell in large numbers. I would buy one if I had the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Had to look it up to see what you guys were talking about. Seems like it's saying "look away, I'm hidious". Some interesting comments from some other folks. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/08/the-800...coln-navigator/ The first words out of my mouth - involuntarily - were "Holy shit!" My second thought was what I have thought all along: Lincoln should not be making trucks. They've been doing it for years now, and they still haven't changed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fllcobra Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I believe the new Nav will sell well. The problem with C/D is they are car guys. 0-60 is at the top of the list with car guys, but not SUV drivers. SUV drivers are now concerned with gas mileage, roominess and refinement. As long as the new Navigator provides a quiet ride, can pull a big boat, and is reliable, it will sell very well. As far as styling goes, it is much nicer than the previous model it replaces. Unfortunately, Cadillac did a better job with the Escalade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Once again I'm lost in a corner all by myself i guess. The Navi don't look all that bad to me. I did not read the CD test yet but rarely have i seen a Ford product or domestic come out on top in any of their cpmparos. Furthermore it's surprising how often winning a CD contest does not correlate to more sales IMO. Not only that, isn't everyone here at BON bitching about fuel efficiency and long term vehicle costs??? If I'm not mistaken the Navi is the only one in the test that will run at stated performance levels on regular grade fuel. What gives with you people? What would you greenie weenies say if Ford stabbed the regular fuel 362hp 425 lb/ft 3v V10 in there? That engine is under estimated and under used in my opinion. It should be an option in the Navi and the F150. That would quickly emasculate just about all any competition has to offer, but would you naysayers ever be happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I believe the new Nav will sell well. The problem with C/D is they are car guys. 0-60 is at the top of the list with car guys, but not SUV drivers. SUV drivers are now concerned with gas mileage, roominess and refinement. As long as the new Navigator provides a quiet ride, can pull a big boat, and is reliable, it will sell very well. As far as styling goes, it is much nicer than the previous model it replaces. Unfortunately, Cadillac did a better job with the Escalade. I disagree completely, the styling is terrible, It is a step down in both exterior and interior design, and WTF is lincoln doing with the old ass intrument console? They need to stop with this retro crap interior because they just over due it in the wrong way. Styling will turn people to the competition, not to mention the tail lights are cheap and fake looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGallun Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Once again I'm lost in a corner all by myself i guess. The Navi don't look all that bad to me. I did not read the CD test yet but rarely have i seen a Ford product or domestic come out on top in any of their cpmparos. Furthermore it's surprising how often winning a CD contest does not correlate to more sales IMO. Not only that, isn't everyone here at BON bitching about fuel efficiency and long term vehicle costs??? If I'm not mistaken the Navi is the only one in the test that will run at stated performance levels on regular grade fuel. What gives with you people? What would you greenie weenies say if Ford stabbed the regular fuel 362hp 425 lb/ft 3v V10 in there? That engine is under estimated and under used in my opinion. It should be an option in the Navi and the F150. That would quickly emasculate just about all any competition has to offer, but would you naysayers ever be happy? no they wont, too many moonbats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) Once again I'm lost in a corner all by myself i guess. The Navi don't look all that bad to me. I did not read the CD test yet but rarely have i seen a Ford product or domestic come out on top in any of their cpmparos. Furthermore it's surprising how often winning a CD contest does not correlate to more sales IMO. Not only that, isn't everyone here at BON bitching about fuel efficiency and long term vehicle costs??? If I'm not mistaken the Navi is the only one in the test that will run at stated performance levels on regular grade fuel. What gives with you people? What would you greenie weenies say if Ford stabbed the regular fuel 362hp 425 lb/ft 3v V10 in there? That engine is under estimated and under used in my opinion. It should be an option in the Navi and the F150. That would quickly emasculate just about all any competition has to offer, but would you naysayers ever be happy? People buying 50-60k jumbo luxury SUV's don't really have fuel in mindm people who purchase lower end products have fuel in mind. I guess it was to be expected that on this forum someone would find a reason to praise Ford for providing a ton less horse power for the same price....................uck Edited August 30, 2006 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The really, REALLY sad part of this is, and we all know it, they're using the same tune in the 5.4L 3V as it is installed in the Expy and NAvi. 300 HP, 360 lbs of torque. With some minor, and I do mean minor (change the ignition timing and fuel mapping to support premium gas, minor exhaust changes, etc) changes, a 3V 5.4L should be easily capable of 330 HP and 395+ lbs of torque. That would have at least made it mid-pack in the performance ballpark. Styling is too subjective in my opinion. I don't like the grill and find the interior not inspiring, but not bad either. If this is the best the T1 platform has to offer, why are they moving the F-150 to it? First thing the styling said to me was Lincoln Escalade. It really has the feel of a warmed over Escalade in terms of its presence. As for the "performance" issue, its pretty simple. I took one look at the spec, noticed that the ZF6HP26 auto tranny was replaced by the Ford 6R, and bingo, I read this as 6R75. Which means that the tranny is laready at its outer limits, and definitely not inside old SysEngs specs. A Lincoln should have a DOHC4V head on tha 5.4 block... just like it used to have. But with what looks to be an anemic tranny, there is no way to go past the numbers they put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 I believe the new Nav will sell well. The problem with C/D is they are car guys. 0-60 is at the top of the list with car guys, but not SUV drivers. SUV drivers are now concerned with gas mileage, roominess and refinement. As long as the new Navigator provides a quiet ride, can pull a big boat, and is reliable, it will sell very well. As far as styling goes, it is much nicer than the previous model it replaces. Unfortunately, Cadillac did a better job with the Escalade. I have 3 issues with the above. 1. DEAD LAST IN ALL PERFORMANCE CATEGORIES is a failure for a brand new vehicle, and I don't care what market niche it's in. Add in the fact that it tied for worst estimated fuel economy, and the vehicle-on a specification level-got bitch slapped at its own debut party. 2. The responses I've seen and heard about the styling have been, let's say, a long ways from positive. 3. That instrument cluster is beyond horrid. It harkens me back to the bad ol' days when you could buy a Fairmont under a half-dozen names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The instrument cluster might actually be form an Old Fairmont Wagon! Yeah, it seems Detroit is bound and determined to use that dash form with the stick up cowl for the instruments, just like straight out of a K-car. seen this on GMC/Chev new trucks, the F150, the up coming SuperDuty, and now this. Read My Electrons Mr. Ford... DUMB! They also think their gonna flog that speedo/tach setup on everything from Mustangs thru "panthers" and these new Lincolns. Take it from the DON of the "panther mafia" this ain't gonna make it! :titanic: It just isn't gonna fly with any part of the upscale demographic. Oh, and before I put out a "contract"... wheres my "glass" ( all digital ) instrument panel??? :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenJ Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Oh, and before I put out a "contract"... wheres my "glass" ( all digital ) instrument panel??? :shrug: It died in the 80's! No one uses digital gauges anymore! Except maybe the new Civic and that's it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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