BORG Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) The 2017 Chevy Malibu Premiere will be the first car to use the new GM developed 9-Speed FWD transmission. It will be replacing their existing 8-speed transmission. For the record, Ford's order guides confirm that the 3.0T in the MKZ and Continental are still using a 6-spd transmission so it's unclear if Ford has any immediate plans to use the transmission. http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/2017-malibu-premier-debuts-new-9-speed-transmission-249785/ Edited May 13, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 There's no 8-speed in the 2016 Malibu, I just checked the catalog. No 2017 Malibu in the parts catalog yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 That 9 speed auto is on a really slow roll out... I would have thought the 2017 Lacrosse and MKZ would have it but neither will use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I've heard that there are some component durability concerns with this unit... I don't know that I'd be rolling it out in a case that they desperately want to regain share in the midsized market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 There's no 8-speed in the 2016 Malibu, I just checked the catalog. 2016 Malibu 2.0T uses the Aisin AF50-8 FWD 8-speed automatic transaxle. See here: http://gmpowertrain.com/product_guide/R_2016_Information_Guide_010516.pdf This is the same 8-speed AT used in several Volvo, Lexus, and BMW vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 There's no 8-speed in the 2016 Malibu, I just checked the catalog. No 2017 Malibu in the parts catalog yet. According to GM Website.Malibu Premier gets 8-speed auto but all other versions are 6-speed........LINK So I wonder if GM plans on switching it's FWD 8-speed line to to 9-speed and that's why they will be up quicker than Ford...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 (edited) So I wonder if GM plans on switching it's FWD 8-speed line to to 9-speed and that's why they will be up quicker than Ford...... According to the MOU between Ford and GM for joint development of next generation automatic transmissions, GM contributed the basic design for 9-speed transverse (FF) transaxle while Ford did so for 10-speed longitudinal (FR) transmission. As such, it's not unexpected that GM will be first to introduce a production vehicle with the 9AT and Ford with the 10AT. The 8-speed Aisin unit will be used in Cadillac XT5. Edited May 16, 2016 by aneekr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1999 White C5 Coupe Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I've heard that there are some component durability concerns with this unit... I don't know that I'd be rolling it out in a case that they desperately want to regain share in the midsized market. Where did you hear this information? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I was surprised Lincoln didn't go with a 3rd party AT for the MKZ or at least the Conti as a stop gap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Where did you hear this information? I'm interested about these details as well, though if PREMiERdrum isn't permitted to reveal sources I completely understand. I wouldn't be surprised if there are component durability issues with the new 9-speed AT. Neither GM nor Ford are known for designing transverse automatic transmissions with good long term reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I was surprised Lincoln didn't go with a 3rd party AT for the MKZ or at least the Conti as a stop gap. Same here. I expected Ford to source the 8-speed Aisin unit for MY 2017 MKZ (non-hybrid) and Continental. The 6F series transmission is at least a generation behind what nearly all other sedans in those prices classes use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Where did you hear this information? Engineering source within Ford. He doesn't feed me much, but what he lets out is solid. He wouldn't elaborate as to if rollout schedules were being delayed or otherwise asjusted, but he also wouldn't say they weren't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Excellent info, thanks guys. So the FWD based 8AT used by GM is sourced from Aisin and limited to XT5....Gotcha. Now the rest makes perfect sense given the respective project leads. Ford must be confident with 10AT going into '17 F150, they are bringing their A dame this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 The 10AT is arriving simultaneously at GM and Ford however, I'm assuming Ford will be doing something in pretty close proximity to Chevy with the 9AT as well. However, if the 3.0T is not getting it at launch for 2017 then it seems a little unlikely that Ford is onboard yet. Ford is famous for incomplete launches because of the way it develops shared systems, so this may just be one of those cases where the new cars launch with the old tech followed 6-12 months later with the new stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 The 10AT is arriving simultaneously at GM and Ford however, I'm assuming Ford will be doing something in pretty close proximity to Chevy with the 9AT as well. However, if the 3.0T is not getting it at launch for 2017 then it seems a little unlikely that Ford is onboard yet. Ford is famous for incomplete launches because of the way it develops shared systems, so this may just be one of those cases where the new cars launch with the old tech followed 6-12 months later with the new stuff. That could actually be a smart move, less chance of problems at launch and a great opportunity to press even harder at 2018 model with new gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Excellent info, thanks guys. So the FWD based 8AT used by GM is sourced from Aisin and limited to XT5....Gotcha. Now the rest makes perfect sense given the respective project leads. Ford must be confident with 10AT going into '17 F150, they are bringing their A dame this year. The 9 speed auto was supposed to have wide launches in 2017 model year, that's why Ford and GM both had all new or significantly powertrain changes planned for their FWD based cars. But obviously there were delays and GM made backup plans to buy 8 speed Aisin transmissions for some of its products (and use the existing 6 speed in others). Ford seemed to have decided to continue with the 6 speed until the 9 speed is ready for primetime. Edited May 16, 2016 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 If GM kept info about issues with the 9 speed back from Ford, and acted on it to lock down supplies of 8 speeds from Aisin, I think we may have seen the end of the Ford/GM transmission JVs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 It seems to me that GM thinks that the potential reliability issues are either A. minimal B. can be easily fixed should they need to be C. Both A and B D have been completely resolved or deemed not a concern Meanwhile Ford is waiting to see how it hashes out and debuting the 10R transmission first. I would have to believe that after the DCT fiasco with the Focus/Fiesta that they are a bit gun shy of there's any hint of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedingtones Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Just when we thought that a 5-speed transmission is enough... Edited May 17, 2016 by speedingtones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) I think a $80K luxury car with 400HP and an aging 6-spd transmission in 2017 is problematic so something must have gone wrong. I know my MKX suffers from the clunky 6-spd transmission, although it's not intolerable and has improved over the years. I don't think I've ever had a Ford with a smooth or responsive transmission that you didn't shift yourself, I'm hoping the 9-speed FINALLY fixes this. Edited May 17, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I don't find the 6F50 in the Edge or MKX (current or previous models) to be clunky at all. I think you're simply impossible to please and have convinced yourself that if it isn't the latest and greatest stuff that it's crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I don't find the 6F50 in the Edge or MKX (current or previous models) to be clunky at all. I think you're simply impossible to please and have convinced yourself that if it isn't the latest and greatest stuff that it's crap. Exactly! Tuned SHO's put alot more power through the transmission then other Ford products and I don't have an issue at all with it...and I've driven nothing but manual transmissions prior to this. I just think he'll never be happy with anything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) I don't think the number of gear ratio is a problem per se but an 8 or 9 speed should return better EPA fuel economy than the 6 so that's where we are at. The real difference is how smooth and efficient is the operation. On the mass market side, I think 6 speed is preferable to the CVT (personal preference) so I think Fusion 1.5T and 2.0T will be competitive with Camry (6 speed), Accord (CVT), Altima (CVT), Passat (6 speed), or Sonata (6 speed). The 6F35 is certainly no better and no worse than the Aisin 6 speed in Camry and Passat (and I think Sonata too). The only question I have is with MKZ and Continental 3.0T AWD which is paired with the 400hp version of the engine. I believe Ford was banking on the 9 speed being available and they even delayed the launch until Job2 later in the model year in case there is delay. But looks like the delay is a lot longer than anticipated and it will miss the 2017 model year completely. The ZF8H transmission is also the defacto standard transmission for luxury cars for smoothness and efficiency of operation... I hope Ford has done some magic programming to make the 6F50 as smooth and efficient as the ZF8H. Edited May 17, 2016 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) I'm mostly interested in a transmission that has been designed for smoother performance. Although it's less of an issue than in my previous MKXs, I have to be careful with the transmission in my new MKX so it doesn't hesitate and clunk into gear harshly when accelerating from a slow stop or turn. It's more obvious in Sport Mode, the transmission jumps and punches harshly when it more quickly picks a gear to be in. With more gears this is typically a smoother experience assuming the software is smart enough. Again it's not a constant problem while driving, only in certain scenarios, but it's one of those things that just doesn't get resolved and I know critics notice it too so I'm assuming it's just the transmission design, it's something a driver eventually gets use to and anticipates if they care. With my last MKX I just learned to accelerate more briskly and aggressively so the transmission isn't confused. Edited May 17, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) The only question I have is with MKZ and Continental 3.0T AWD which is paired with the 400hp version of the engine. I believe Ford was banking on the 9 speed being available and they even delayed the launch until Job2 later in the model year in case there is delay. But looks like the delay is a lot longer than anticipated and it will miss the 2017 model year completely. The ZF8H transmission is also the defacto standard transmission for luxury cars for smoothness and efficiency of operation... I hope Ford has done some magic programming to make the 6F50 as smooth and efficient as the ZF8H. How do we even know it won't show up as Job 2/3 when the 3.0LTT launches? It wouldn't be the first time order guides were off. I mean the order guides show the 3.0LTT is available in FWD for the MKZ. Edited May 17, 2016 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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