jpd80 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) due to hints that I interpret as more small variants coming, wonder if the U.S** could get both (all) mechanical versions...in one model or a nother? also still nursing a suspicion about a (more) one-piece rear axle being easier to swap with a (mostly) self-contained 'electro-axle' = simplistic/affordable VirtualAwd hybrids & plug-ins ** maybe urban-VS-rural China too Yes and Yes, Perhaps the way we interpret modular design shouldn't be tied to just the chassis. Modular design in next gen probably mean more inclusion of electrification at the start of the design process. So when some are looking at flexibility in terms of size, perhaps that is not needed as much when the correct sizes are chosen in the first place...and perhaps switching between EV, Hybrid and ICE modules is of greater importance to construction.. Edited July 10, 2016 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Honda dealers would kill for true truck products. Only if Gov't forces higher gas prices will compacts come back. But even in 'driver's car paradise' Europe, with "mobility controls" [high gas taxes] CUV's are increasing sales, too. Can get tiresome squeezing 4 people in a Fiesta, and the 'fun to drive' quotient with all that weight is gone. Again, is Ford supposed to whip up new compacts up "tomorrow" just to please one frequent poster on here? Honda is pushing CUV's and Fit has seen cut production. But also, Civic has "newness" on its side. once it wears off, then expect to see "Honda Specials". Ford would be wise to aim new Focus at Subaru and offer AWD. Chasing Civic and Corolla is a waste of time. Mainly they are bought by aging Baby Boomers who think Ford still build Pintos. Edited July 11, 2016 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Ford would be wise to aim new Focus at Subaru and offer AWD. Chasing Civic and Corolla is a waste of time. Mainly they are bought by aging Baby Boomers who think Ford still build Pintos. My thinking is Fords aim with the Focus is more at VW (but without the need of having Bay City Roller tartan seat covers :-) ) and offer AWD Edited July 11, 2016 by MKII 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Focus will not have twist beam... The upper income level Chinese buyers that Ford is courting with Focus will not accept it. Plus AWD Focus is probably baked in for C3 and IRS+AWD is much easier to engineer. I'm expecting Ford will bring back the Focus X-Road (or something very similar to it with AWD) to compete with VW Alltrack. Escort will have twist beam (it already does). Edited July 11, 2016 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Focus will not have twist beam... The upper income level Chinese buyers that Ford is courting with Focus will not accept it. Plus AWD Focus is probably baked in for C3 and IRS+AWD is much easier to engineer. I'm expecting Ford will bring back the Focus X-Road (or something very similar to it with AWD) to compete with VW Alltrack. Escort will have twist beam (it already does). Wonder what Ford is testing on that spied in the USA MK3 Focus mule wearing rear twist beam? Edited July 12, 2016 by MKII 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Wonder what Ford is testing on that spied in the USA MK3 Focus mule wearing rear twist beam? A Fiesta based Compact car, similar cost to build as Fiesta but sold at today's Focus pricing? Does Fiesta become the new compact car for Ford and Focus move up to compete with Corolla and Cruze? Does Ford Ka then replace current Fiesta? Edited July 12, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Wonder what Ford is testing on that spied in the USA MK3 Focus mule wearing rear twist beam? A Chinese Escort replacement on the Mk3 Focus platform? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 That is the next-gen Focus mule running with a twist beam suspension, it has only been spotted on the US mules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 It is about an inch or two wider than today's Focus as well. You can see where the deck lid was welded together in the middle by the elongated Ford emblem indent (and the extra inch or so of space on either side of the rear window) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Maybe the widening required updates to the mule's suspension and it was just easier to slap on a twist beam instead of modifying IRS. They might just need powertrain mule testing that isn't affected by rear suspension. But production final will have the proper IRS. I'm just spit-balling here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) But the Euro spied MK3 Focus mule is running rear IRS. My thoughts are similar to what jpd80 mentioned about a larger car replacing the current USA Fiesta. Edited July 12, 2016 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I would be shocked if Ford offered a twist beam Focus. The B-segment in the US is now well established, I would also be surprised if Ford messed with their global strategy and make a US-only Fiesta orphan. I could see Ford designing an EU/US specific interior for the Escort and bringing it to the US to prop up sales, but I think that makes sense only when and if gas prices rise. For now, I am expecting IRS on the focus (all Foci) and global Fiesta with twist-beam suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Would they use twist-beam in the new electrified vehicles based on the C3 platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Fiat's Dart is dead for 2017, so less competition!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I think the Focus mules we are seeing are actually the higher end Ecosport replacement. The Honda HR-V uses a Torson bar rear suspension and other smaller CUV's do also, so you can still have AWD with it. Otherwise its the next gen Escort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 It's likely a suspension variant of the new Focus platform, we saw this with VW. The Escort is a Chinese developed product, you won't see it in Dearborn. The Ecosport and Escape can't share a platform because there are huge cost differences that a twist beam won't cheapen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 A Chinese Escort replacement on the Mk3 Focus platform? sounds reasonable/reasonably-accurate (gotta be something for the 4rth world parts of the U.S & China) except there are not going to any platforms anymore at FoMoCo re: a diff comment Wonder if a base-hybrid (cheapo with just Fwd) could use the beam rear and a high-trim/performance hybrid/plug-in would get electroid-Virtual-Awd ? ....both^ with "Focus" (U.S)badging all guessing of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 It's likely a suspension variant of the new Focus platform, we saw this with VW. The Escort is a Chinese developed product, you won't see it in Dearborn. You want to try again? http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-ford-taurus-prototype-spied-in-detroit/#photogallery The Ecosport and Escape can't share a platform because there are huge cost differences that a twist beam won't cheapen. But the Ecosport Plus (short Focus) or whatever you call it won't be a "cheap" car. Look at this way: 172″ L x 72″ W x 58″ H: Focus Hatchback 169″ L x 70″ W x 63″ H: Honda HR-V 178″ L x 72″ W x 66″ H: Escape You can make a Focus Hatchback look like an CUV pretty easily A Small CUV starts around 20K...a Focus starts at 16K and the Fiesta at 14,580..plenty of room to make $$$ off a smaller CUV on a Focus platform. The Ecosport starts at ~$16k in Mexico vs ~$18K for a Escape using Ford Mexico pricing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) You want to try again? http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-ford-taurus-prototype-spied-in-detroit/#photogallery But the Ecosport Plus (short Focus) or whatever you call it won't be a "cheap" car. Look at this way: 172″ L x 72″ W x 58″ H: Focus Hatchback 169″ L x 70″ W x 63″ H: Honda HR-V 178″ L x 72″ W x 66″ H: Escape You can make a Focus Hatchback look like an CUV pretty easily A Small CUV starts around 20K...a Focus starts at 16K and the Fiesta at 14,580..plenty of room to make $$$ off a smaller CUV on a Focus platform. The Ecosport starts at ~$16k in Mexico vs ~$18K for a Escape using Ford Mexico pricing The Taurus and Continental were co-developed on CD4 which does come from Dearborn, it's also 'rumored' that Taurus was originaly intended for US consumption as well. The old C2 Focus upon which the Escort is based is just a parts bin car slapped together in China and for China only. And you do realize however that C3 is underpinning the Escape...so how do you achieve a cheaper, smaller and more FE Crossover that is essentially the same size using the same hardware? And the suspension of a Crossover is where things differ the most in Crossover platforms and clearly this mule isn't riding higher so they are NOT testing a Crossover platform in this instance. Edited July 13, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The Taurus and Continental were co-developed on CD4 which does come from Dearborn, it's also 'rumored' that Taurus was originaly intended for US consumption as well. Yet we still see Rangers/Everests/Ecosports in the US, even though we haven't gotten them (yet) Look at the Subcompact CUV market: CX-3 Wheelbase (101 in) Length (168 in) Width (69 in) Height (61 in) curb Weight 2,800 lb HR-V Wheelbase (102.8 in) Length (169.1 in) Width (69.7 in) Height (63.2 in) Curb weight:2,952 Buick Encore Wheelbase (100.6 in) Length (168.5 in) Width (69.9 in) Height (64.8 in) Curb weight: (2,851 lb) (2WD) (3,056 lb) (4WD) Subcompact CUV"s are nearly identical in size to a Focus Hatchback...which weighs almost the same as they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Yet we still see Rangers/Everests/Ecosports in the US, even though we haven't gotten them (yet) Look at the Subcompact CUV market: CX-3 Wheelbase (101 in) Length (168 in) Width (69 in) Height (61 in) curb Weight 2,800 lb HR-V Wheelbase (102.8 in) Length (169.1 in) Width (69.7 in) Height (63.2 in) Curb weight:2,952 Buick Encore Wheelbase (100.6 in) Length (168.5 in) Width (69.9 in) Height (64.8 in) Curb weight: (2,851 lb) (2WD) (3,056 lb) (4WD) Subcompact CUV"s are nearly identical in size to a Focus Hatchback...which weighs almost the same as they do. You do realize what a big difference all these vehicles have in width to the Focus/Escape right? All of them are at least 2-inches narrower, that's a bigger difference than Focus and Fusion which is only 1-inch apart. So no, they aren't similar at all. Edited July 13, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The new Civic is huge, and same size as a 1998 Accord, should Focus be as big as a '96 Taurus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I don't care what the tape measure says - there is way more than 1 inch of interior width difference in Fusion/Focus. I owned both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 You do realize what a big difference all these vehicles have in width to the Focus/Escape right? All of them are at least 2-inches narrower, that's a bigger difference than Focus and Fusion which is only 1-inch apart. So no, they aren't similar at all. But yet again for example the Encore is within an inch or so vs the Focus. And the Escape has about an extra inch of hip room vs the Focus...even thought its on the same platform. We don't really need something as small/crude as the Ecosport...a smaller Escape or something based on the Focus hatchback would fit the bill for a smaller CUV. as for gas mileage: Subcompact CUV's get better City MPG due to lower weights, but the highway MPG isn't that far off an Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I don't care what the tape measure says - there is way more than 1 inch of interior width difference in Fusion/Focus. I owned both. Interior wise, the Fusion is Hip Room - Front 55 Hip Room - Rear 54.4 Shoulder Room - Front 57.8 Shoulder Room - Rear 56.9 Focus: Shoulder Room - Front (in.) 55.6 Shoulder Room - Rear (in.) 52.6 Hip Room - Front (in.) 53.9 Hip Room - Rear (in.) 52.8 So the Fusion is about 2 inches wider, but yet Subcompact CUV's offer roughly the same interior space as the Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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