theoldwizard Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Im salivating...the thoughts of CD6 enabling the 5.0 to make an appearance in the Explorer............... Mid-sized FWD vehicles have always had an "issue". With modern technology it is easier than ever to get a high horsepower engine transverse mounted in there, but a "robust" transmission is an issue as well as putting "the power down" without inducing torque steer. Ford maybe working on an 8F but do they want to have to make 2 version like the 6F50 and 6F55 ? CD6 RWD will maximize usage of the 10R80. I have not had the opportunity to get "up close and personal" with 4WD F150 so I don't know how similarities/differences there are with the 2WD version. The big challenge on CD6 will be weight and good ride characteristics/handling. Edited February 19, 2018 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I don't now how a FWD and RWD implementation of the CD6 can use the exact same front suspension ! Pretty easy if the engine is still longitudinal as has been hinted at. It would certainly allow more parts sharing but I still question the need for a longitudinal FWD vehicle. If the engine is already north/south it seems like RWD would be easier. Perhaps it’s longitudinal FWD/hybrid for fuel economy and RWD/AWD hybrid for performance versions. That would provide the best fuel economy for the FWD models (and save some cost on the rear axles) while allowing common engines, transmissions and front suspensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 BTW I have been driving the 10 speed in my F150 for the last week and it’s unbelievable. You don’t feel the shifts except during heavy acceleration and it has never gotten caught hunting for gears so far. There are 5 driving modes - eco, sport, snow, tow and normal - and in addition to selectshift manual control you can lock out any number of higher gears in auto mode. Being able to use this transmission in more vehicles is a huge win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I don't now how a FWD and RWD implementation of the CD6 can use the exact same front suspension ! FWIW, the front suspensions of the Mustang and Fusion look remarkably similar on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Agree 100 % ! About 30 years a go, I worked with a fellow engineer at Ford who went on to design the the suspension on the first Ford GT (not the GT40). At a lunch table conversation one day, he said the big difference between EU cars and and US cars that made them ride and drive better was suspension travel. Most US vehicles have only about 6" of total travel (before hitting the bump stops) while EU vehicles have at least 8" of total travel. Suspension travel is good for sedans, sports cars and trucks (look at the Raptor). I can confirm this from conversations Ive had with my Dad. He hasnt worked on a lot of European projects but enough to know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Pretty easy if the engine is still longitudinal as has been hinted at. It would certainly allow more parts sharing but I still question the need for a longitudinal FWD vehicle. If the engine is already north/south it seems like RWD would be easier. Perhaps its longitudinal FWD/hybrid for fuel economy and RWD/AWD hybrid for performance versions. That would provide the best fuel economy for the FWD models (and save some cost on the rear axles) while allowing common engines, transmissions and front suspensions. Im still a believer that it will retain a transverse FWD setup. Theres too much invested in the new 8F transmission for it to only be used in C-platform cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 IIRC, the 777 was a "one off" and only ran a few passes at a drag strip. Last I knew, the 777 was resting comfortably on a dolly in the lobby of one of the Ford engineering buildings. IMO the "Tri 7" can be used (if produced) for a Ford GT engine upgrade or/and a Hellcat/LT5 fighting Mustang and sedan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Im still a believer that it will retain a transverse FWD setup. Theres too much invested in the new 8F transmission for it to only be used in C-platform cars. Plus, where does that leave the Edge? It just switched to the CD4 with the last update. With Fusion update plans pulled, does that mean the Edge is on a dead platform? I can understand maybe switching the Fusion to a stretched C platform. I can understand the logic there. But to orphan the Edge/MKX to a dead platform is a monumental waste. I think there is still a big demand for FWD/AWD mid-size CUV. I'd argue with the major upswing in CUV sales, a FWD Edge and a 7 seat Edge can share space with a 3 Row Explorer. Just from a marketing perspective, Ford has to keep both angles in play. What ever platform Ford goes with for the Edge is fine by me, as long as it exists in its FWD/AWD configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Agree 100 % ! About 30 years a go, I worked with a fellow engineer at Ford who went on to design the the suspension on the first Ford GT (not the GT40). At a lunch table conversation one day, he said the big difference between EU cars and and US cars that made them ride and drive better was suspension travel. Most US vehicles have only about 6" of total travel (before hitting the bump stops) while EU vehicles have at least 8" of total travel. Suspension travel is good for sedans, sports cars and trucks (look at the Raptor). I agree about the suspension, because as a Raptor owner, the suspension absorbs everything amazingly well. Its without a doubt the best riding truck Ive ever ridden in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 BTW I have been driving the 10 speed in my F150 for the last week and its unbelievable. You dont feel the shifts except during heavy acceleration and it has never gotten caught hunting for gears so far. There are 5 driving modes - eco, sport, snow, tow and normal - and in addition to selectshift manual control you can lock out any number of higher gears in auto mode. Being able to use this transmission in more vehicles is a huge win. Still waiting on pictures of this truck you keep taking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Plus, where does that leave the Edge? It just switched to the CD4 with the last update. With Fusion update plans pulled, does that mean the Edge is on a dead platform? I can understand maybe switching the Fusion to a stretched C platform. I can understand the logic there. But to orphan the Edge/MKX to a dead platform is a monumental waste. I think there is still a big demand for FWD/AWD mid-size CUV. I'd argue with the major upswing in CUV sales, a FWD Edge and a 7 seat Edge can share space with a 3 Row Explorer. Just from a marketing perspective, Ford has to keep both angles in play. What ever platform Ford goes with for the Edge is fine by me, as long as it exists in its FWD/AWD configuration. As I said last night, Edge is moving to CD6. I don't know anything about what it will be in the powertrain but based on what I saw it looks to still be FWD to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Still waiting on pictures of this truck you keep taking about. Yes-what F-150? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Still waiting on pictures of this truck you keep taking about. Thought I posted them in the other thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 As I said last night, Edge is moving to CD6. I don't know anything about what it will be in the powertrain but based on what I saw it looks to still be FWD to me. FWD or Transverse FWD? Can be two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Plus, where does that leave the Edge? It just switched to the CD4 with the last update. With Fusion update plans pulled, does that mean the Edge is on a dead platform? I can understand maybe switching the Fusion to a stretched C platform. I can understand the logic there. But to orphan the Edge/MKX to a dead platform is a monumental waste. I think there is still a big demand for FWD/AWD mid-size CUV. I'd argue with the major upswing in CUV sales, a FWD Edge and a 7 seat Edge can share space with a 3 Row Explorer. Just from a marketing perspective, Ford has to keep both angles in play. What ever platform Ford goes with for the Edge is fine by me, as long as it exists in its FWD/AWD configuration. CD4 is dead. Fusion is either moving to a longer C3 transverse FWD/AWD/hybrid, or CD6 (possibly transverse FWD but I think it’s more likely to be longitudinal whether it’s FWD, AWD or RWD hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 So if Edge moves to a stretched C, then that would throw out the idea of 2 length Escape someone had hypothesized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 FWD or Transverse FWD? Can be two different things. I honestly dont know. All I know is platform, what it looks like and when it comes out It doesnt have the obvious proportions of a RWD vehicle like weve seen with the Explorer mules. My gut instinct says it stays transverse FWD based on what weve heard about the capabilities of CD6 and the huge investment in the 8F transmission. I could see Nautilus going either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 So if Edge moves to a stretched C, then that would throw out the idea of 2 length Escape someone had hypothesized. Its not, its going to CD6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I honestly dont know. All I know is platform, what it looks like and when it comes out It doesnt have the obvious proportions of a RWD vehicle like weve seen with the Explorer mules. My gut instinct says it stays transverse FWD based on what weve heard about the capabilities of CD6 and the huge investment in the 8F transmission. I could see Nautilus going either way. If the platform is as flexible as believed, itd be a great easy way to differentiate Edge and Nauti by making the former FWD and the latter RWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I could see: Fusion and Edge - FWD, AWD, FWD HEV, FWD PHEV, smaller engines (2.0T or less) Fusion and Edge ST (Ford performance), RWD or AWD (2.7T, 3.0T) new MKZ, Nautilus, Explorer, Aviator, Continental, Mustang, Lincstang, any other Lincoln product - RWD/AWD/HEV (2.3T and up) Another possibility is to offer base configurations on the Lincolns as FWD especially on HEVs and PHEVs (smaller engines for max mpg) with RWD for higher trims with larger engines including performance hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Another possibility is to offer base configurations on the Lincolns as FWD especially on HEVs and PHEVs (smaller engines for max mpg) with RWD for higher trims with larger engines including performance hybrids. I dont think it makes much sense to engineer 2 totally different drivetrain configurations in the same vehicle regardless of what the platform is capable of. Edited February 19, 2018 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I dont think it makes much sense to engineer 2 totally different drivetrain configurations in the same vehicle regardless of what the platform is capable of. Not if the FWD version is longitudinal. You’re just disconnecting the rear driveshaft and eliminating the rear differential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 But there's still no reason to drive the front axle if you're using a longitudinal engine. It's not more efficient (involves an extra gear set to change direction of the driveshaft and the front CV joints introduce more loss when the front wheels are turned to steer). It's not driving dynamics, rwd is clearly better in that regard. It's not snow because as already stated, the northern states just stock awd models anyways. The only possible reason I could think of is interior packaging since there is less need of a tunnel running thru the rear floorpan. Maybe that's it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 But there's still no reason to drive the front axle if you're using a longitudinal engine. It's not more efficient (involves an extra gear set to change direction of the driveshaft and the front CV joints introduce more loss when the front wheels are turned to steer). It's not driving dynamics, rwd is clearly better in that regard. It's not snow because as already stated, the northern states just stock awd models anyways. The only possible reason I could think of is interior packaging since there is less need of a tunnel running thru the rear floorpan. Maybe that's it? No because you still need the tunnel for AWD whether the engine is transverse or longitudinal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Ask Audi. They must have a good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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