Is there a market for a compact pickup?

[Sevensecondsuv]

Jump seats won't pass modern crash protection tests, that's why they're gone.

No doubt crew cabs still have restricted rear seet room but obviously not enough

to discourage the many buyers who purchase them.

I haven't seen the new crew cab T6 Ranger, but the back seat in my dad's '17 F150 is nothing short of impressive. It's as roomy as my '07 Town Car and then some. The leg room is pretty much equivalent to a Town Car L (the factory 6" stretch that Lincoln was selling to livery fleets). Obviously the T6 Ranger Crew won't be as roomy as an F-150, but I doubt it'll be any worse than a fusion, for example.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv

[Sevensecondsuv]

Putting aside that you're never wrong, you made this same argument about need for a 7/8 truck when the F150 would do.

That's true. I seem to remember a 20+ page thread about 5 years ago where all the usual suspects (myself included) were having a similar argument about getting a new Ranger here in the US. Now that it's here, we still can't stop arguing about it lol.

[jpd80]

I haven't seen the new crew cab T6 Ranger, but the back seat in my dad's '17 F150 is nothing short of impressive. It's as roomy as my '07 Town Car and then some. The leg room is pretty much equivalent to a Town Car L (the factory 6" stretch that Lincoln was selling to livery fleets). Obviously the T6 Ranger Crew won't be as roomy as an F-150, but I doubt it'll be any worse than a fusion, for example.

Rear Leg room in T6 Super cab and Super crew is 31.3" (796mm) and 35.5" (902 mm) respectively

[fordmantpw]

A Super Cab Ranger isn't about seating extra people, it's about having the extra room for some stuff inside the cab, while having the seating available just in case. People who want/need REAL seating in the back are going to buy a crew cab, not a Super Cab.

[akirby]

Putting aside that you're never wrong, you made this same argument about need for a 7/8 truck when the F150 would do.

We were almost all wrong about the mid sized truck market, and nobody knew it until Canyorado proved it wrong.

 

However, that’s about a completely different model.

 

I understand there is a small market for regular cabs but I think we can all agree it would be relatively small and be mostly for cheap fleet sales.

 

A supercab can straddle both markets - fleet sales (XL) and retail (XLT/Lariat+) without any extra tooling or certification/testing that a regular cab would require.

 

If I’m wrong the both Toyota and GM are wrong, too. If neither Ford nor GM nor Toyota make a regular cab model, what else would they buy?

[jpd80]

A Super Cab Ranger isn't about seating extra people, it's about having the extra room for some stuff inside the cab, while having the seating available just in case. People who want/need REAL seating in the back are going to buy a crew cab, not a Super Cab.

Correct, it's the modern alternative to a Single cab with extra room behind the front seats for lock up security

and with the added benefit of seating when needed in a pinch.

[LSchicago]

Are you a fleet buyer?

No.

[Fgts]

The returning Ranger would probably be the size of an '80 RCSB F150 so why not a rwd/awd CD6 Rancho and a Ford/Lincoln sedan to share the cost?.

[Sevensecondsuv]

In weight, yes. They'd be very close. However that '80 F-150 is the exact same width as a current superduty and with the full size front portion and 6.5' box, the wheelbase is probably as long as a T6 ranger supercab wheelbase.

 

So not very apples to apples.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv

[fuzzymoomoo]

I actually prefer the jump seats in the old US ranger because those are legitimately useful for kids at least. A bench rear seat in a supercab compact/midsize truck is just too tight to sit in.

I had to sit in those as a kid growing up. Even then I thought they were a safety hazard. I still cant believe my parents ever put us in them.

[fuzzymoomoo]

I haven't seen the new crew cab T6 Ranger, but the back seat in my dad's '17 F150 is nothing short of impressive. It's as roomy as my '07 Town Car and then some. The leg room is pretty much equivalent to a Town Car L (the factory 6" stretch that Lincoln was selling to livery fleets). Obviously the T6 Ranger Crew won't be as roomy as an F-150, but I doubt it'll be any worse than a fusion, for example.

They didnt have the doors open at NAIAS and the demo units they had on display for us at the plant had the doors locked, but the back seat on the super crew looks to be somewhere around the size of an Escape. The back seat of the crew cab I would say is no bigger than a Fiesta

[akirby]

No.

 

The question is whether fleet buyers would buy a supercab instead of a regular cab. fleet buyers can’t just wait 10 years to replace their vehicles.

[92merc]

For fleet buyers, I think it would be more cost effective if Ford built a truck off the Transit platform. That'll help spread the cost of developing the Transit without having to invest in a lot of cab interior features a Ranger or F150 would have. Leave the Ranger and F150 designed more for the general public.

 

Don't they already have a cab only option for the Transits? If so, then we'd be just talking about adding a box through an up fitter.

[LSchicago]

The question is whether fleet buyers would buy a supercab instead of a regular cab. fleet buyers can’t just wait 10 years to replace their vehicles.

Supercab is a waste of space and metal. Regular and crew cab makes more sense.

[silvrsvt]

For fleet buyers, I think it would be more cost effective if Ford built a truck off the Transit platform. That'll help spread the cost of developing the Transit without having to invest in a lot of cab interior features a Ranger or F150 would have. Leave the Ranger and F150 designed more for the general public.

 

Don't they already have a cab only option for the Transits? If so, then we'd be just talking about adding a box through an up fitter.

 

 

The fullsize Transit is a unibody-would require a decent amount of work to make it a pickup

[jpd80]

 

 

The fullsize Transit is a unibody-would require a decent amount of work to make it a pickup

Incorrect, it's an integral ladder frame and is supplied as a cab chassis in ROW markets

Edited April 5, 2018 by jpd80

[akirby]

Supercab is a waste of space and metal. Regular and crew cab makes more sense.

 

Retail buyers don't want regular cabs. It's a deal breaker not having room for kids and a place to put things out of the weather. Canyorado is selling 25% supercabs and those are probably higher trim levels.

 

Ford would be stupid to replace those sales with cheaper fleet regular cab sales.

 

 

You guys are trying to invent a market that doesn't exist.

[92merc]

Transit Cab chassis:

 

https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/transit-chassis/features/versatility/?intcmp=vhp-featcta-versatility

 

• 138-in. wheelbase with typical upfit body lengths of 10 – 12 ft.
• 156-in. wheelbase with typical upfit body lengths of 13 – 15 ft.
• 178-in. wheelbase with typical upfit body lengths of 16 – 18 ft.

 

Ford needs to start pushing these for fleets with a cab and a box. I think they should also add an AWD/4WD option.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Canyorado is selling 25% supercabs and those are probably higher trim levels.

If that's accurate, then they're doing a lot more fleet than we give them credit for. I don't think I've yet seen a supercab canyorado that wasn't white with black argent bumpers and steel wheels. Meanwhile I also commonly see well optioned retail ones but they are all 4wd crew cabs.

[LSchicago]

 

Retail buyers don't want regular cabs. It's a deal breaker not having room for kids and a place to put things out of the weather. Canyorado is selling 25% supercabs and those are probably higher trim levels.

 

Ford would be stupid to replace those sales with cheaper fleet regular cab sales.

 

 

You guys are trying to invent a market that doesn't exist.

Plenty of retail buyers only want regular cabs. Ford tries to force larger cabs on us by limiting options. I just looked today to see what RCSB 5.0's were available.

[jasonj80]

Plenty of retail buyers only want regular cabs. Ford tries to force larger cabs on us by limiting options. I just looked today to see what RCSB 5.0's were available.

Must be the same large group of retail buyers that also want RWD, V8 sedans; those buyers are actually figments.

[akirby]

Plenty of retail buyers only want regular cabs. Ford tries to force larger cabs on us by limiting options. I just looked today to see what RCSB 5.0's were available.

 

If by plenty you mean a few hundred, you’re right.

 

You guys just aren’t paying attention to how the market has changed. If buyers wanted more retail regular cab F150s Ford would still be making them in all trim levels and in much higher quantities. Even supercab F150s are rare compared to crew cabs. A few months ago there were 2 lariat supercabs in stock within 100 miles.

[Sevensecondsuv]

If by plenty you mean a few hundred, youre right.

 

You guys just arent paying attention to how the market has changed. If buyers wanted more retail regular cab F150s Ford would still be making them in all trim levels and in much higher quantities. Even supercab F150s are rare compared to crew cabs. A few months ago there were 2 lariat supercabs in stock within 100 miles.

That's our point exactly. We all know crew cabs make up 80+% of the market nowadays. Instead of splitting the remaining 20% between reg cab and supercab, why not just consolidate into reb cab only? Those who need the rear seat space rightfully realize that there's no point in half-assing it (no pun intended) with a supercab and go straight to crew cab. Meanwhile there's always certain applications that demand a reg cab, especially on fleet trucks (and vocational rigs now that F150 shares a common cab up through F550).

 

It's supercab that no longer has justification for it's continued existence.

[akirby]

I’ll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you mine. As the owner of 2 supercabs (a 95 ranger and a 2018 F150), I wholeheartedly disagree. I find them immensely useful for carrying an occasional adult, for groceries and other purchases that don’t need to go in the bed. I would not even consider a RC.

 

The ONLY significant market for regular cab f150s is cheap ass work trucks. There will always be some retail buyers who want them but it’s a very very tiny number nowadays.

[jpd80]

The percentage in F150 is more like 70% Crew Cab, 20% Super Cab and the rest is Regular Cabs,

the biggest buyers of the latter are fleets as work trucks and not surprisingly, the last thing Ford supplied

with the roll out of Aluminum F 150 - a decent RC XL was so hard to get for months at a time because

Ford was too busy building other models.

 

Currently, monthly production at Dearborn, Kansas City and Kentucky Truck is 33K, 30K and 38K (Incl Expedition and Navigator)

and about 2,000 S/D cab chassis at Avon Lake. I really think Ford is maxed out on production of existing trucks, they seem to have

no interestin changing their product mix away from what is working.

Edited April 6, 2018 by jpd80