Black Label Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, akirby said: I bet the owner demographics are completely different as well. Hey...what are you trying to say here? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Black Label said: Hey...what are you trying to say here? ? If the leisure suit fits....... ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I really don't think Ford has any intention of expanding Lincoln in India. It is not the right market for Lincoln... Ford can't even figure out how to sell small cars in India, they will be bleeding red ink if they tried to sell luxury SUVs in India. Might as well just set a couple of hundred million dollars on fire and call it a day. The theory about trademark protection probably holds water. Ford has been fighting with Geely on Lync & Co for a while all over the world. It's a low grade whack a mole legal battle one country at a time kind of tedious war of attrition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 The chance of RHD Lincoln is practically zero, so protection of the Lincoln brand is key here. There are people who scan new patents, see something and jump to the wrong conclusion. Geely has been quite cheeky with Linc & Co, it clearly bothers Ford that it sounds like Lincoln. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passis Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 The Lynk & Co story makes all the sense. However, the FordAuthority article brings to the table the discussion of a Lincoln expansion, at least to Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 6 hours ago, akirby said: Again, I think a lot of it comes down to age of the dealership and decades of doing business a certain way with impunity. The imports are much newer and have better franchise agreements and just a generally better attitude. Franchises should have expirations and/or allow modifications over time. Or better yet - kill the franchise laws altogether. Maybe you should support what Elon is trying to do with dealers then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, passis said: The Lynk & Co story makes all the sense. However, the FordAuthority article brings to the table the discussion of a Lincoln expansion, at least to Europe. Let’s be real here, Lincoln is at best four Utilities that were never developed with European tastes in mind, the Continental grille certainly gives the brand a leg in the door but without good PHEVs across the board, the products risk being wall flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, AGR said: Maybe you should support what Elon is trying to do with dealers then. Not as a business strategy. Ford has 3000 dealers. How much would that cost for a mfr to replicate? At $10M per dealership that’s $30B just in startup costs plus all the corporate overhead. Just not feasible for volume mfrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 18 hours ago, jpd80 said: Let’s be real here, Lincoln is at best four Utilities that were never developed with European tastes in mind, the Continental grille certainly gives the brand a leg in the door but without good PHEVs across the board, the products risk being wall flowers. Definitely not in line with European aesthetics but Corsair, Nautilus, and Aviator should have no problem passing NACP and emission tests. So it's not impossible... but I agree that it's kind of a waste of money and effort. Ford won't sell enough to justify the investment. The only viable markets for Lincoln outside North America is still just China and Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, akirby said: Not as a business strategy. Ford has 3000 dealers. How much would that cost for a mfr to replicate? At $10M per dealership that’s $30B just in startup costs plus all the corporate overhead. Just not feasible for volume mfrs. I wasn't suggesting that Ford convert all the dealers to company-owned ones. I was answering your post stating that the dealer franchise laws need to go away, and was just noting that Musk has been trying to do that for years now. Perhaps I should have been clearer. IMO, that is the one big advantage that GM and FCA got with bankruptcy: the right to override state dealer laws. They weeded out most of the bad dealers, and the ones with oddball brand lineups. Now GM and FCA dealers mostly fall in line with the 3 and 1 sales channels, respectively. Edited October 21, 2020 by AGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I didn’t realize GM was allowed to pull franchises in bankruptcy. I assume a lot of that was driven by killing brands though. I’m sure Ford has a few dealers they’d like to get rid of. I think Musk’s disdain for franchise laws was because he wanted to sell directly to consumers. But I agree with him the laws are antiquated and at the least need revisions to allow some control over pricing and customer service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 The state dealer associations are strong, well funded and quick to flex their influence by lobbying legislators when there's a threat to the franchise laws. Years ago Ford wanted to take over a number of CT dealers, eliminate the smaller sales points and then rebuild the remaining points as Ford super stores. Ford's plan didn't last long and was abandoned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 14 hours ago, akirby said: I didn’t realize GM was allowed to pull franchises in bankruptcy. I assume a lot of that was driven by killing brands though. I’m sure Ford has a few dealers they’d like to get rid of. I think Musk’s disdain for franchise laws was because he wanted to sell directly to consumers. But I agree with him the laws are antiquated and at the least need revisions to allow some control over pricing and customer service. There's no question that there are dealerships that Ford would like to get rid of but the franchise laws protect some of the worst, especially those that violate state advertising regulations. The advertising regulations are fairly consistent among states are are primarily concerned with deceptive advertising practices. There are dealerships that exclude destination charges in their advertised sale prices, include rebates and incentives that are only available to select customers (College Graduate, First Responders, etc.) and even include trade value and/or money down. Those dealerships can be fined but otherwise stay in business. After nearly 35 years managing advertising for a number of franchises that my boss owned over the years (Ford, Dodge, Hyundai) I'm well familiar with the regulations in CT, MA, NY & NH. In general terms, Ford can only take limited action against dealerships that violate various Ford policies and standards. Ford can restrict vehicle allocation, cut dealership payments for certain programs, etc. but can't terminate a dealership's franchise unless they violate the franchise agreement. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 It sounds like being a car dealership is like being a government worker or tenured professor. Can't get rid of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) @Rperez, I just called Hooks. Asked about an oil change Monday while I have a few hours. First available was Tuesday afternoon. Asked about a car wash. He said maybe Monday afternoon he could fit me in. Lincoln dealers just suck. Oh well. Edit: As much as FW has grown, I'm shocked there is only one Lincoln dealer there. Edited October 23, 2020 by Black Label 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Black Label said: @Rperez, I just called Hooks. Asked about an oil change Monday while I have a few hours. First available was Tuesday afternoon. Asked about a car wash. He said maybe Monday afternoon he could fit me in. Lincoln dealers just suck. Oh well. Edit: As much as FW has grown, I'm shocked there is only one Lincoln dealer there. Thank you Black Label sir for sharing your experience with Hooks Lincoln. Sorry it wasn't quite the superior experience I hoped they would provide. All of the Lincoln vehicles I owned previously were used ones with over 100k miles on them. Last time I visited Hooks was in 2013. Worked with the parts department, they were fantastic. No gimmicks, no delays, friendly people all around. I guess the Covid-19 situation is causing a lot of stress for dealerships in general. Good point about Hooks being the only Lincoln dealer on the FW side of the Metroplex. There used to be a Lincoln dealer just north of Fort Worth in Hurst, North Hills LM. But North Hills shut down not long after Ford killed the Mercury brand. Grapevine Ford eventually bought about half of North Hills' new vehicle inventory and co-located Lincoln at the existing Ford dealership. Just going by physical facilities, the nicest Lincoln dealer in the Metroplex is Planet Lincoln in Dallas, near Love Field. It opened just last year (with a celebration party event earlier this year) as part of the big redevelopment of the old Braniff complex. They claim to be the largest Lincoln dealership facility in the world with over 267,000 square feet. Edited October 23, 2020 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Thank you Black Label sir for sharing your experience with Hooks Lincoln. Sorry it wasn't quite the superior experience I hoped they would provide. All of the Lincoln vehicles I owned previously were used ones with over 100k miles on them. Last time I visited Hooks was in 2013. Worked with the parts department, they were fantastic. No gimmicks, no delays, friendly people all around. I guess the Covid-19 situation is causing a lot of stress for dealerships in general. Good point about Hooks being the only Lincoln dealer on the FW side of the Metroplex. There used to be a Lincoln dealer just north of Fort Worth in Hurst, North Hills LM. But North Hills shut down not long after Ford killed the Mercury brand. Grapevine Ford eventually bought about half of North Hills' new vehicle inventory and co-located Lincoln at the existing Ford dealership. Just going by physical facilities, the nicest Lincoln dealer in the Metroplex is Planet Lincoln in Dallas, near Love Field. It opened just last year as part of the big redevelopment of the old Braniff complex. They claim to be the largest Lincoln dealership facility in the world with over 267,000 square feet. I may just do my own oil change today before I drive down there tomorrow, or if I think about it more, I may just set up a time at Hooks on Tuesday to check out the place, anyway. Who knows, maybe we will move back down there someday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 That dealership does look nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Wait, wait, wait a minute here. Is that dealership in the old Legend Airlines terminal at Love Field? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Black Label said: Wait, wait, wait a minute here. Is that dealership in the old Legend Airlines terminal at Love Field? Yes sir Black Label you are correct! Planet Lincoln's new dealership facility is at 7767 Lemmon, right next to where the Legend executive terminal used to be. The rest of the Braniff base at Love Field has been redeveloped too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Yes sir Black Label you are correct! Planet Lincoln's new dealership facility is at 7767 Lemmon, right next to where the Legend executive terminal used to be. The rest of the Braniff base at Love Field has been redeveloped too. Wow! I worked for DalFort Aviation from late 1997-200 as a fueler. We had the contract to fuel the Legend DC-9 aircraft and we frequently went to the old Braniff hangar to defuel aircraft in heavy maintenance checks. Edited October 23, 2020 by Black Label 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) So, as I perused their website, I noticed one of the gentlemen in a photo had done several YouTube videos. He had one describing all the Black Label benefits, which maybe his dealership, Planet Lincoln, is, ironically, the only one on the planet to actually provide a good Lincoln ownership experience. Whew, that was a mouthful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_QHLKUjY0 Edited October 23, 2020 by Black Label Adde video but it is not embedding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Label Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) Got a call from the Lincoln Manager at Fair Oaks Ford/Lincoln today. He called in response to my negative online survey I did. Among other things, he seems to really be interested in resolving my issues. Told me, this is the best part, that they are in the middle of building a multi million dollar stand alone Lincoln facility, as discussed here. That was very exciting news to me. He says they are striving to have that facility be what the Lincoln experience ought to be. He said he had just started at Fair Oaks. Sounds like he's serious about making it how it should be. Edited November 10, 2020 by Black Label 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Black Label said: Got a call from the Lincoln Manager at Fair Oaks Ford/Lincoln today. He called in response to my negative online survey I did. Among other things, he seems to really be interested in resolving my issues. Told me, this is the best part, that they are in the middle of building a multi million dollar stand alone Lincoln facility, as discussed here. That was very exciting news to me. He says they are striving to have that facility be what the Lincoln experience ought to be. He said he had just started at Fair Oaks. Sounds like he's serious about making it how it should be. Hopefully that's a good sign and that they'll take care of things for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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