Bob Rosadini Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Well why we have been led to believe that Ford views commercial trucks as a key business unit, I continue to wonder what Ford management's definition of a "commercial truck" is. Case in point, June issue of Heavy Duty Trucking has a Ford ad. What does it feature? A Transit and in the background two pick ups. Now we know Ford is no longer in the true heavy duty market. But if you are going to spend money to advertise in a mag like HDT, perhaps you could have featured at least a 750 plus a 550 or two in some supporting role? In the same issue was a feature article on new Paccar mediums-starting at class 5- and up to "baby 8" by the way. Makes me wonder. Every time we read a story and a Ford truck "executive" is featured it is a new name. Maybe its time they recruit some truck professionals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Get what you are saying and maybe they recognize that they don’t have a class 8 truck so let’s get their other commercial vehicles that go into a fleet? But than again many of those fleets also need F550’s so what do I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 2 hours ago, kyle said: Get what you are saying and maybe they recognize that they don’t have a class 8 truck so let’s get their other commercial vehicles that go into a fleet? But than again many of those fleets also need F550’s so what do I know! Kyle, As I look at it, "commercial trucks" may not have as large an ad budget as say Explorer does. Absolutely pointless IMO to spend anything on ad dollars in a mag like HDT that is focused as its name implies. Unless you tailor it with something that would catch the typical readers eye...like maybe an F-750 tractor pulling a side loader beverage trailer? This ad takes me back a number of years ago when Ford Fleet I guess doled out the ad dollars and they would be spending ads in the trucking periodicals that covered everything but trucks! All marketing BS. I have to say though, not as bad as some recent ads that featured a 750 crew cab-in Allied Moving orange, pulling a beverage trailer! I will say, that some sharp eye eventually caught that as I did see that orange crew cab hooked to an orange drop deck "bed bug" hauler! I guess no one in commercial truck approves what the marketing guys spend money on. If you are a Ford truck guy stuff like this just fosters the notion that for sure they are not serious about the business-unless its Transits, F-150's and 250 Lariats for the horsey set to pull their trailers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Mile Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) All good points. Can't help but wonder what the response to the ads would be, if the F-Max and Cargo were in the backgound of some pictures. Would likely generate some interesting questions/comments? Edited June 15, 2021 by 40 Mile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 My company recently put out a one-ton dually service body for bid. We had a long standing relationship with a local Ford dealer and our small fleet (5 trucks) are all Fords. However, with the small, local dealer going out of business, we put it out for bid. Here are a few of my observations: GM is still phoning it in. Both Ram and Ford allow you to build a chassis-cab truck online. That is not an option for Chevrolet or GMC. This is one reason no General Motors dealers were invited to bid. We did not get a huge response to our request for proposal. Granted, it was for only one truck, but we do not purchase cheap trucks. The Ford spec was for a Lariat and the Ram spec was for a Larimie. The Ram dealers were slightly more responsive, but the lack of response from Ford was deafening. At the end of the day, we ordered a Ram truck back in February, and should be delivered in about a week from now. To be honest, with the business fleet, and my personal garage of Ford vehicles (5 I own personally, 5 for the business), it really felt Ford was no longer interested in having me as a customer. Besides the lack of marketing to the commercial buyer, they also don't make it very easy to purchase from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 6 hours ago, hwyman3 said: My company recently put out a one-ton dually service body for bid. We had a long standing relationship with a local Ford dealer and our small fleet (5 trucks) are all Fords. However, with the small, local dealer going out of business, we put it out for bid. Here are a few of my observations: GM is still phoning it in. Both Ram and Ford allow you to build a chassis-cab truck online. That is not an option for Chevrolet or GMC. This is one reason no General Motors dealers were invited to bid. We did not get a huge response to our request for proposal. Granted, it was for only one truck, but we do not purchase cheap trucks. The Ford spec was for a Lariat and the Ram spec was for a Larimie. The Ram dealers were slightly more responsive, but the lack of response from Ford was deafening. At the end of the day, we ordered a Ram truck back in February, and should be delivered in about a week from now. To be honest, with the business fleet, and my personal garage of Ford vehicles (5 I own personally, 5 for the business), it really felt Ford was no longer interested in having me as a customer. Besides the lack of marketing to the commercial buyer, they also don't make it very easy to purchase from them. Absolute BS. You would think that the Ford District sales office would be sensitive losing a dealer and would grab that departing dealers customer list and pass it around. I would send a note to the District sales office with a copy to the GM of the unresponsive dealer. You probably have enough to do without wasting time following up on a dumb ass dealer's mistake but given your obvious loyalty to Ford I think they owe you a response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 11 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Absolute BS. You would think that the Ford District sales office would be sensitive losing a dealer and would grab that departing dealers customer list and pass it around. I would send a note to the District sales office with a copy to the GM of the unresponsive dealer. You probably have enough to do without wasting time following up on a dumb ass dealer's mistake but given your obvious loyalty to Ford I think they owe you a response. It wasn't one dealer, it was several dealers. We reached out to many dealers within the states of Maryland and Virginia, within a 150 mile radius. Ford really seems to be taking it's loyal customers for granted. A couple of weeks ago, I attended the All Ford Nationals in Carlisle, PA, one of the largest Ford shows in the country. Ford's display was very lacking. There were 2 Broncos there for you to see, but none of the upcoming products. No Maverick, No Lightning. I would think that with such a large congregation of Ford faithful, they would at least try to peak our interest with at least a Prototype or 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 On 6/15/2021 at 12:18 PM, hwyman3 said: My company recently put out a one-ton dually service body for bid. We had a long standing relationship with a local Ford dealer and our small fleet (5 trucks) are all Fords. However, with the small, local dealer going out of business, we put it out for bid. Here are a few of my observations: GM is still phoning it in. Both Ram and Ford allow you to build a chassis-cab truck online. That is not an option for Chevrolet or GMC. This is one reason no General Motors dealers were invited to bid. We did not get a huge response to our request for proposal. Granted, it was for only one truck, but we do not purchase cheap trucks. The Ford spec was for a Lariat and the Ram spec was for a Larimie. The Ram dealers were slightly more responsive, but the lack of response from Ford was deafening. At the end of the day, we ordered a Ram truck back in February, and should be delivered in about a week from now. To be honest, with the business fleet, and my personal garage of Ford vehicles (5 I own personally, 5 for the business), it really felt Ford was no longer interested in having me as a customer. Besides the lack of marketing to the commercial buyer, they also don't make it very easy to purchase from them. Don't feel too bad, a fleet I know tried to order over 500 F-250's this year and they might get 200. Maybe.... You should have been treated better that you were, but you are just buying one truck, so from the dealer perspective you are pretty much a regular customer. Ordering a chassis/cab is often more involved than a pickup, the truck has to accept the upfitter's body and modifications, if it doesn't the dealer could be stuck with a vehicle that may be hard to sell. GM does not have 'build and price' on their website for chassis/cabs, Ford does not for the heavier Super Duties either. Buyers are encouraged to see a dealer specializing in commercial trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: Don't feel too bad, a fleet I know tried to order over 500 F-250's this year and they might get 200. Maybe.... You should have been treated better that you were, but you are just buying one truck, so from the dealer perspective you are pretty much a regular customer. Ordering a chassis/cab is often more involved than a pickup, the truck has to accept the upfitter's body and modifications, if it doesn't the dealer could be stuck with a vehicle that may be hard to sell. GM does not have 'build and price' on their website for chassis/cabs, Ford does not for the heavier Super Duties either. Buyers are encouraged to see a dealer specializing in commercial trucks. I was just a little surprised. Our spec included the service body as we have the dealer coordinating that with the upfitter. Since I know many dealers have preferred upfitters they work with, we specified a Knapheide, Reading or similar 6 compartment service body. One dealer did talk to his rep from EBY Truck bodies in Pennsylvania, but they could not build to our spec. He then reached out to Reading, but we never heard back from him. I do realize when it comes to a commercial customer, I am a REALLY small fish in a huge pond. If my regular dealer was still around, they would have gotten the sale. Ford seems to be pushing out these small town dealers where families have built a relationship with. I know the only constant is change, but I wonder if they really looked at what their business plan truly costs. We are a small business, and we like to work with other small businesses when we can. I know it's clichéd, but there is something about doing business with a person rather than just being another number. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 18 hours ago, hwyman3 said: Ford seems to be pushing out these small town dealers where families have built a relationship with. I I don't believe that Ford is pushing these small dealers out more than I believe it is larger dealer chain networks buying them up to both expand and protect their market share. In my market, a "local chain" bought the Ford/Lincoln dealer in one market even though they had a big Ford Store in the next town over but they wanted the Lincoln marque to add to their portfolio...then Lincoln goes through their change up several years back and discontinues the franchise at the Ford/Lincoln store...so the local chain decides to just fold the remaining Ford store into their "big" Ford Store and sold the property to another local chain that turned it into a Mitsubishi store..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, twintornados said: I don't believe that Ford is pushing these small dealers out more than I believe it is larger dealer chain networks buying them up to both expand and protect their market share. In my market, a "local chain" bought the Ford/Lincoln dealer in one market even though they had a big Ford Store in the next town over but they wanted the Lincoln marque to add to their portfolio...then Lincoln goes through their change up several years back and discontinues the franchise at the Ford/Lincoln store...so the local chain decides to just fold the remaining Ford store into their "big" Ford Store and sold the property to another local chain that turned it into a Mitsubishi store..... TT-understand what you are saying--no doubt the "big box" multi location dealerships can benefit from the typical "synergisms" associated with consolidations-merge back office functions, centralized HR function etc. But I think Ford also must push the little guy to "upgrade" or else.. think of what one of those hi rise Ford signs cost? Deere is another good example. My local dealership was just that-old family owned operation, then family sold to one of their employees that started with them in '85. This guy ultimately bought two smaller locations in the state and upgraded them-after building a beautiful new store that was his initial one. ( I think I posted a picture of a beautiful LTL-9000 that he had that was one of his two tractors to move units between locations) Long story short last year he is approached by a mega store to sell out. This "mega store" consolidated about 10 locations here in Northeast into a new entity-part of the bigger chain that I've been told has over 70 locations nationwide. The way of the world we live in I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 19 hours ago, hwyman3 said: I was just a little surprised. Our spec included the service body as we have the dealer coordinating that with the upfitter. Since I know many dealers have preferred upfitters they work with, we specified a Knapheide, Reading or similar 6 compartment service body. One dealer did talk to his rep from EBY Truck bodies in Pennsylvania, but they could not build to our spec. He then reached out to Reading, but we never heard back from him. I do realize when it comes to a commercial customer, I am a REALLY small fish in a huge pond. If my regular dealer was still around, they would have gotten the sale. Ford seems to be pushing out these small town dealers where families have built a relationship with. I know the only constant is change, but I wonder if they really looked at what their business plan truly costs. We are a small business, and we like to work with other small businesses when we can. I know it's clichéd, but there is something about doing business with a person rather than just being another number. HYW'..I wouldn't consider you small as you have 5 trucks. Rather I would say you are the kind of customer Ford can't afford to lose IMO. The 250 truck order that 7M talked about is nice for sure but think of what a razor sharp deal that probably was. On a unit basis I wold bet your sale would be more profitable to Ford-and a dealership. This says to me Ford's sales organization is lacking. When a small dealership closes up the Ford district sales organization should be tuned to making sure accounts like yours are identified to the surviving dealers in the area. At least that would make sense to me. Your old dealer worked to build your trust. Gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: But I think Ford also must push the little guy to "upgrade" or else 100% illegal in almost every state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 18 hours ago, akirby said: 100% illegal in almost every state. 100% illegal, but Ford has enough lawyers to bankrupt you while you are in court. Ford does have ways to pressure the small dealers. Maybe Ford holds back shipments of popular models, maybe Ford cuts allocation to the smaller dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, hwyman3 said: 100% illegal, but Ford has enough lawyers to bankrupt you while you are in court. Ford does have ways to pressure the small dealers. Maybe Ford holds back shipments of popular models, maybe Ford cuts allocation to the smaller dealer. They can do small things like reduce allocation but those franchise laws are iron clad and Ford would lose in a heartbeat if they tried to do anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 31 minutes ago, akirby said: They can do small things like reduce allocation but those franchise laws are iron clad and Ford would lose in a heartbeat if they tried to do anything like that. In the end, yes, but they have enough lawyers to bankrupt you during the court process. Through appeals, they can keep it tied up for years, to Ford, not that big a loss, to the small dealer, they can't afford the fight. The laws may be written iron clad, the problem is enforcing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, hwyman3 said: In the end, yes, but they have enough lawyers to bankrupt you during the court process. Through appeals, they can keep it tied up for years, to Ford, not that big a loss, to the small dealer, they can't afford the fight. The laws may be written iron clad, the problem is enforcing them. That is not how it works in the real world. Ford has been sued many times by dealers over these franchise laws and the dealer wins every time. No long drawn out process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 If the dealer survives... Back around '70 I worked for an inner city Mercury dealer which through good management and just plain frugality survived. Ford kept pressuring them to move to the suburbs or sell out to a suburban dealer, in the mid 80s they finally sold out to a suburban Ford dealer and sued Ford for damages. They might have won, but in the end they didn't even have the money to pay their lawyers as Ford kept appealing the case. The dealership they sold to fell victim to the tightening of consumer credit after the 2008 recession and all that's left of that dealership is a big concrete slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwyman3 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, akirby said: That is not how it works in the real world. Ford has been sued many times by dealers over these franchise laws and the dealer wins every time. No long drawn out process. In this real-world situation, that is exactly what Ford was prepared to do, keep it tied up in court until they bled the family dry. The exact scenario GearheadGrrrl described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I hereby publicly dare Ford to drop the F-series mediums! Then they can watch their class 1 thru 5 biz tank! We know dropping class 8 killed medium sales, don't we? It's just like Ford dropped police sedans. They couldn't keep the Fusion?! So they said to the police depts. "Here, use our Explorers and be happy!" So tons of PD's, trying to make some of their officers happy or for whatever reason, started buying Dodge Chargers. So now what's popping up around CT? Dodge SUV police vehicles! So now Ford is losing Explorer sales! Ford is sooooooooooo dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 This is where Daimler has a huge advantage- They can supply a fleet with everything from an A class company car through vans, mediums, over the road tractors, on up to the biggest off road beasts from Western Star. Right now Ford's offerings only range from small SUVs up to a barely medium duty with a pickup cab, and those transverse engine SUVs are probably facing end of life and the F650/750 and step van chassis wouldn't exist without the help of a subcontractor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 11:58 AM, akirby said: That is not how it works in the real world. Ford has been sued many times by dealers over these franchise laws and the dealer wins every time. No long drawn out process. Your original statement.......100% illegal in almost every state. So which is it? I find it hard to believe that Ford does not have the right to insist on certain image standards. And obviously it is all in the details I would imagine how image improvement is presented to the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Your original statement.......100% illegal in almost every state. So which is it? I find it hard to believe that Ford does not have the right to insist on certain image standards. And obviously it is all in the details I would imagine how image improvement is presented to the dealer. It’s exactly what I said. It’s illegal in almost every state. There might be one or two states without these tough franchise laws or only have some of them. These franchise agreements date back to the 50s, 60s, 70s. Ford has no say in how the dealer runs their business. That includes appearance, pricing, customer service (or lack thereof), etc. it’s really sad that they have no control over bad dealers and the only way to get rid of them is to buy them out. Google automotive franchise laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 IMHO, medium duty trucks are NOT a key business component to Ford ! Admittedly, they are selling every Transit they can make but it is a weak replacement to the E-Series vans. Low payload, negligible towing. Why do "dually" Transits tuck the second tire INSIDE the body when all F-Series add fender flair (no sliding door option on dually would solve that problem). The rear brakes are a joke ! You have to remove the axle to remove the rotor ??? Real world life expectancy for rear brakes is ≤30K ! Leaving all design decisions in the hands of EU is a big mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 12 hours ago, theoldwizard1 said: IMHO, medium duty trucks are NOT a key business component to Ford ! Admittedly, they are selling every Transit they can make but it is a weak replacement to the E-Series vans. Low payload, negligible towing. Why do "dually" Transits tuck the second tire INSIDE the body when all F-Series add fender flair (no sliding door option on dually would solve that problem). The rear brakes are a joke ! You have to remove the axle to remove the rotor ??? Real world life expectancy for rear brakes is ≤30K ! Leaving all design decisions in the hands of EU is a big mistake. My opinion is the Transit sells on price and price alone. They are difficult to service and unless you are hauling around bulky light cargo they don't seem to be holding up all too well. My employer passed on the Transit and hopes Chevy will build the old Express for another 25 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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