akirby Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Rangers09 said: Not sure why you are bringing your BEV preferences over to the Super Duty Forum, since at the present time we have zero BEV options and none on the horizon. The direct to consumer model is an interesting discussion, but I suggest keeping it to Super Dutys. Just because this subject is in the super duty forum doesn’t mean the discussion should be limited to super duties. This issue isn’t unique to Super Duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 4 hours ago, akirby said: How much work does Best Buy do when you walk in and buy a tv? How much work does Target do when you buy stuff there? It’s a business who has employees to pay, rent to pay, financing stock i ce tory for test drives, etc. And they make a hell of a lot less profit percentage wise than any other retail business. I don't know and I don't care. Their prices are public for all to see and at MSRP or below. Those stores openly compete for business. They don't try to get some customers to pay more than others, they don't try to price gouge when there is a real or artificial shortage. Cars are higher priced items so it makes sense that the margin percentage is lower. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but there is a reason why lots of people dread the car buying process but have no issue going to Best Buy to get a new TV. I think, in general, most dealership owners make pretty darn good money. They definitely take a big risk and should expect to get a big reward. IMHO customers would prefer a better car buying experience than they have had in the past. My local Toyota dealership is great to deal. They have lots of repeat customers and some will drive past multiple other dealers just for the hassle free experience in sales AND service. I don't know of another dealership in my area with a similar reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 The point I was making is you said they didn’t deserve any profit on a special order because they didn’t do any work which is ridiculous, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Monoman said: I don't disagree with that but how much actual work are they really doing for me if someone goes to ford.com and creates a build sheet for exactly what they want? I agree that the more effort they put into a sale or value added for the customer (test drives, answering questions, etc) then they need to get more in return. 22 minutes ago, akirby said: The point I was making is you said they didn’t deserve any profit on a special order because they didn’t do any work which is ridiculous, Really? I don't think I said they don't deserve any profit. That would be silly. People gotta eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Monoman said: Really? I don't think I said they don't deserve any profit. That would be silly. People gotta eat. I think you’re confusing sales commissions with dealership profit. The dealership has the same costs regardless of whether the salesperson spends 5 minutes or 5 hours with you. And by the time you factor in operating expenses a dealer who sells below invoice is not making a profit. The ones that do are making it up elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 hours ago, akirby said: I think you’re confusing sales commissions with dealership profit. The dealership has the same costs regardless of whether the salesperson spends 5 minutes or 5 hours with you. And by the time you factor in operating expenses a dealer who sells below invoice is not making a profit. The ones that do are making it up elsewhere. I'm not but rather than go back & forth here we can save it for another day .. over a beer/bourbon. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Monoman said: I'm not but rather than go back & forth here we can save it for another day .. over a beer/bourbon. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Monoman said: I'm not but rather than go back & forth here we can save it for another day .. over a beer/bourbon. ? Sure. Are you going to ask for the beer and bourbon below cost? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 On 2/13/2022 at 9:50 AM, Watson138 said: Agreed. There are certainly some dealerships that do very little. That's why I'd be a fan of going to a direct to consumer model. Cut out the middle man. 1st sign of ANY issues Id love to see the correspondence directly with Ford Corporate...guess what...based on experience...you'd get absolutely NO WHERE...Ill also add that YOUR profession is of the same classification as 99% are...a middle man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 On 2/11/2022 at 7:21 AM, akirby said: That’s my point. Nobody has a problem paying well below MSRP a when it’s a buyer’s market (my F150 was discounted almost $10k) but they do t like it when it’s the other way around. perfectly put...classic case of its all fine a dandy until it effects one personally...mind you that's NOT just the car business is it?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 hours ago, akirby said: Sure. Are you going to ask for the beer and bourbon below cost? ? No but I'm sure if we don't go to some fancy foo foo place where we have to tip everyone that looks at us then we can get a fair price. ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 4 hours ago, twintornados said: I see you are into the finer things in life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedFletcher Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Deanh said: 1st sign of ANY issues Id love to see the correspondence directly with Ford Corporate...guess what...based on experience...you'd get absolutely NO WHERE...Ill also add that YOUR profession is of the same classification as 99% are...a middle man... So my experience wouldn't change? My only complaint with the current market is that every dealer near me had a 5k market adjustment and then made it 10k within a few days of one another. Yet the same practice if done milk or wheat farmers would get slapped for price gouging and collusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 24 minutes ago, NedFletcher said: So my experience wouldn't change? My only complaint with the current market is that every dealer near me had a 5k market adjustment and then made it 10k within a few days of one another. Yet the same practice if done milk or wheat farmers would get slapped for price gouging and collusion. Milk and food are essential to survival. A new vehicle is 100% luxury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedFletcher Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, akirby said: Milk and food are essential to survival. A new vehicle is 100% luxury. I spent some time working in a regulator office. Anything that can hold up a job making an essential product would also be considered essential. In principal I agree with you, but if a city were to be unable to procure a new truck to keep the plows rolling and complained about a 10k markup the office I worked at would have taken the complaint seriously. I'm surprised an overzealous regulator hasn't done so already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 56 minutes ago, akirby said: Milk and food are essential to survival. A new vehicle is 100% luxury. I agree for consumers but for not necessarily or business owners. 48 minutes ago, NedFletcher said: I spent some time working in a regulator office. Anything that can hold up a job making an essential product would also be considered essential. In principal I agree with you, but if a city were to be unable to procure a new truck to keep the plows rolling and complained about a 10k markup the office I worked at would have taken the complaint seriously. I'm surprised an overzealous regulator hasn't done so already. I live in hurricane alley (South FL) and I can tell you that they don't put up with price gouging after storms. I too am surprised nobody had taken a shot at the dealerships. Most are pricing at MSRP in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Except you don’t have to buy a NEW truck in an emergency. I’m sure there are plenty of used pickups available (although also at a premium). I think the other problem is when do you trigger this “emergency” and for how long? You wouldn’t want to interfere if it was just a normal high demand vehicle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigUnixGeek Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 On 2/13/2022 at 4:26 PM, akirby said: How much work does Best Buy do when you walk in and buy a tv? How much work does Target do when you buy stuff there? It’s a business who has employees to pay, rent to pay, financing stock i ce tory for test drives, etc. And they make a hell of a lot less profit percentage wise than any other retail business. There's got to be an up side, or there wouldn't be so many, right? Car dealerships are not hard to come by (though honest ones maybe...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 32 minutes ago, BigUnixGeek said: There's got to be an up side, or there wouldn't be so many, right? Car dealerships are not hard to come by (though honest ones maybe...). It used to be a lot more lucrative on the new car sales. Nowadays they get by on used car sales which can be thousands more profit and service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 29 minutes ago, akirby said: It used to be a lot more lucrative on the new car sales. Nowadays they get by on used car sales which can be thousands more profit and service. Yes sir, used car sales, F&I, and fixed ops accounted for more than 90% of the profits generated by the average U.S. new car dealership prior to the Covid-19 pandemic. Don't have the numbers for 2020 or 2021, but I would expect these areas to still dominate when it comes to profitability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajohnson Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 42 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Yes sir, used car sales, F&I, and fixed ops accounted for more than 90% of the profits generated by the average U.S. new car dealership prior to the Covid-19 pandemic. Don't have the numbers for 2020 or 2021, but I would expect these areas to still dominate when it comes to profitability. Excellent chart, thanks for posting it. So financing accounts for more profit than new & used car sales combined! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
road turtle Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 What defines fixed op revenue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, road turtle said: What defines fixed op revenue? Has to be the service department - maintenance and repairs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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