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On 9/21/2022 at 11:20 AM, rmc523 said:


elongated boxy profile with a contrasting roof color.  That’s about the extent of it

Nope. The pics I’ve seen where the resemblance was most striking didn’t have contrasting roof colors, and the angle didn’t really reveal the elongated boxy profile. It’s most noticeable to me in a low shot from the front quarter. 

Edited by SoonerLS

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9 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

It would be pretty foolish for Farley to commit to keeping ICE for the 8th gen, or deciding to go ev only so early on. The 8th gen probably won't even start development for a few more years and he's telling us what powertrain options it will have. 

 

There is a possibility that the 8th gen could be an all-new platform engineered for both ICE and EV to share packaging and designs. The EV version could come out sooner and ICE come later when S650 ends. But it is odd that Farley is talking about the 8th gen this early when they just revealed S650. I do agree with jpd80 that he could be working both sides for now.

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24 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Or, S650 lasts for at least two MCEs that take it beyond 2030…

 

That is what I personally think is actually the plan as well. There are plenty of changes they can make with the MCEs of the S650 over the years to keep it updated and fresh. The Mustang 2-door coupe/convertible EV could still be styled like traditional ICE Mustang but I think the soonest the EV can happen is 2028, from what I been seeing here.

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29 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

 

That is what I personally think is actually the plan as well. There are plenty of changes they can make with the MCEs of the S650 over the years to keep it updated and fresh. The Mustang 2-door coupe/convertible EV could still be styled like traditional ICE Mustang but I think the soonest the EV can happen is 2028, from what I been seeing here.

Equally, a small hybrid battery like those in the C2 range could possibly fit under the passenger side floor….

A nice little option later in the product cycle?

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56 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Equally, a small hybrid battery like those in the C2 range could possibly fit under the passenger side floor….

A nice little option later in the product cycle?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually one of their plans. This would help sell the Mustang in Europe by the time hybrids are required there. Also be a good option for America as well as other places as Australia.

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1 hour ago, pffan1990 said:

 

There is a possibility that the 8th gen could be an all-new platform engineered for both ICE and EV to share packaging and designs. The EV version could come out sooner and ICE come later when S650 ends. But it is odd that Farley is talking about the 8th gen this early when they just revealed S650. I do agree with jpd80 that he could be working both sides for now.


My guess, Ford might probably pair the Mustang EV coupe with some future Ford EV like maybe the next gen Mach E or they might even surprise us with a Taycan-style 4-door EV coupe.

Ford will probably keep the S650 alive for a while and maybe just give it updates. After 2029 the ICE Mustang's export market share would have shrunk significantly with Ford of Europe going EV-only by 2030.


 

Edited by AM222

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1 hour ago, pffan1990 said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually one of their plans. This would help sell the Mustang in Europe by the time hybrids are required there. Also be a good option for America as well as other places as Australia.

Actually, hybrids don’t really conform to Europe and it’s zero emission zones in designated cities, all the HEVs and PHEVs are rated as though the batteries are in charge sustain /depleted mode with the highest emissions. They’re basically stacking the deck in favour of BEVs.

 

zThe only place where hybrids still make sense is in North America, better than diesels in most passenger Utilities and light trucks…..maybe worth a shot in Super Duty too..

Edited by jpd80

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The only place where hybrids still make sense is in North America, better than diesels in most passenger Utilities and light trucks

 

That's correct jpd80. Maybe Japan too, but that market is in decline overall. 

 

Even in North America, hybrids have a very short lifespan. They can help automakers meet certain fuel economy and emissions regulations in the next 4 or 5 years. But beyond that hybrid technology is obsolete everywhere. This is probably one reason Ford decided not to offer hybrid powertrain in 2024 Mustang.

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18 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Nope. The pics I’ve seen where the resemblance was most striking didn’t have contrasting roof colors, and the angle didn’t really reveal the elongated boxy profile. It’s most noticeable to me in a low shot from the front quarter. 

 

Unless you get a black or dark gray Bronco, all Broncos have a contrasting roof.

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct jpd80. Maybe Japan too, but that market is in decline overall. 

 

Even in North America, hybrids have a very short lifespan. They can help automakers meet certain fuel economy and emissions regulations in the next 4 or 5 years. But beyond that hybrid technology is obsolete everywhere. This is probably one reason Ford decided not to offer hybrid powertrain in 2024 Mustang.

Or Mustang buyers really didn’t want hybrids?

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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Unless you get a black or dark gray Bronco, all Broncos have a contrasting roof.

Yes, and?

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16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Or Mustang buyers really didn’t want hybrids?

 

That's quite possible, and likely to be the case with new muscle car buyers in general. Mustang's pony car competitors GM and Stellantis also do not plan to offer hybrid versions of Camaro and Challenger, respectively. As mentioned earlier, nowadays hybrid powertrain technology exists only for regulatory compliance, and only in the very short term.

 

If the muscle car coupe/convertible segment is to survive to the end of this decade, their manufacturers must transition to 100% BEV product lineups. Otherwise, as Tim Kuniskis from Stellantis said, the segment will "fall off the cliff."  

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40 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

hybrid powertrain technology exists only for regulatory compliance, and only in the very short term.  


Bullshit.  

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

Bullshit.  

 

Multipliers on GHG credits in the CAFE regulations originally formulated for MY 2017-2025 vehicles, and the recently finalized rule covering MY 2024-2026, are favorable to hybrid technology. After MY 2026, it's very likely the overall regulatory themes in CAFE will be much more favorable to BEV versus hybrids. In many regions outside North America, this is already the case.

 

Beyond the regulatory "stopgap" aspects, hybrid powertrains amount to automakers spending money to force the customer to carry extra stuff they may not need. Mustang buyers in particular will be much happier with an optimized, pure BEV version than a "stopgap" hybrid version. Ford's decision to not pursue the latter for S650 Mustang is a smart move.

 

Edited by rperez817

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Multipliers on GHG credits in the CAFE regulations originally formulated for MY 2017-2025 vehicles, and the recently finalized rule covering MY 2024-2026, are favorable to hybrid technology. After MY 2026, it's very likely the overall regulatory themes in CAFE will be much more favorable to BEV versus hybrids. In many regions outside North America, this is already the case.

 

Beyond the regulatory "stopgap" aspects, hybrid powertrains amount to automakers spending money to force the customer to carry extra stuff they may not need. Mustang buyers in particular will be much happier with an optimized, pure BEV version than a "stopgap" hybrid version. Ford's decision to not pursue the latter for S650 Mustang is a smart move.

 


Hybrids exist because buyers want them and they’re very effective at reducing emissions over non hybrids and they have none of the BEV drawbacks.  
 

The only reason for them not to exist as a transition to BEVs is government regulation and politics.

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19 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Yes, and?


you said you were comparing non contrasting roofs, when by default they all have contrasting roofs.

 

21 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Or Mustang buyers really didn’t want hybrids?


dwpends on what kind of hybrid it is.  If it were more of an “Electric boost” variety, providing more power, they might have liked it without knowing they would.   If it were a typical Prius like hybrid they likely wouldn’t want it 

Edited by rmc523

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I think they decided there wouldn’t be enough incremental sales to make it worth the effort.

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49 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think they decided there wouldn’t be enough incremental sales to make it worth the effort.

 

I suspect so. Once they decided to revise the S550 platform instead of moving to CD6, I'm sure the increased cost for hybrid, AWD, and EV adaptation was a losing business case.

 

I'm still holding out hope that the 8th generation moves to CD6 or another new platform and incorporates all of the above, to ease the transition into all-EV someday after that.

 

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8 hours ago, rmc523 said:


you said you were comparing non contrasting roofs, when by default they all have contrasting roofs.

Funny--I saw two Bronco Sports on the turnpike this morning, and neither had contrasting roofs. One was white and the other was that plasticky gray. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Bronco, which is not the one I was discussing?

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33 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

Funny--I saw two Bronco Sports on the turnpike this morning, and neither had contrasting roofs. One was white and the other was that plasticky gray. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Bronco, which is not the one I was discussing?

 

What's funny?  You two seem to be talking about two entirely different vehicles.  You're talking about Bronco Sport, while @rmc523 seems to be talking about big Bronco.

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On 9/24/2022 at 10:33 AM, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct jpd80. Maybe Japan too, but that market is in decline overall. 

 

Even in North America, hybrids have a very short lifespan. They can help automakers meet certain fuel economy and emissions regulations in the next 4 or 5 years. But beyond that hybrid technology is obsolete everywhere. This is probably one reason Ford decided not to offer hybrid powertrain in 2024 Mustang.

Japan would require right hand drive.  Maybe Ford will consider adding it to pick up some sales in Australia, India, and Japan to keep the V8 alive.  I could see some sort of powerboost option being added, provided Ford finds a place for the battery.  Improvements to battery power density could be the key.

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:29 PM, silvrsvt said:

Ecoboost Mustang to lose manual transmission

 

only 10% of buyers went for a manual. 

Ford is embracing the base Mustang's "Secretary Car" heritage. On the plus side, the 2.3L EB is gaining a dual fuel system with port injection and DI... for those secretaries that appreciate clean intake valves.

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14 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Funny--I saw two Bronco Sports on the turnpike this morning, and neither had contrasting roofs. One was white and the other was that plasticky gray. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Bronco, which is not the one I was discussing?

 

Yea, my bad.  Some people in the thread were talking about Bronco=Flex and that’s how I interpreted yours.

 

14 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

What's funny?  You two seem to be talking about two entirely different vehicles.  You're talking about Bronco Sport, while @rmc523 seems to be talking about big Bronco.


this is what happened, as I’ve never heard of Bronco Sport looking like a flex until this thread, as they look nothing alike lol.

 

—-

I see ICE Mustang galloping into the sunset on this platform….we may see some refreshes of it but I don’t see a new ICE coming with the way things/regulations stand now.

id have to imagine they’re working on some sort of BEV model.  Why Ford doesn’t have a “toolkit” platform I’m not sure.

I still think we may eventually see a single more performance oriented BEV 4 door appear for each of Ford and Lincoln once Mustang transitions and they get their BEV architecture sorted out.

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7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

this is what happened, as I’ve never heard of Bronco Sport looking like a flex until this thread, as they look nothing alike lol.

The ironic thing is that I'd never heard of anyone saying the Bronco looked like a Flex until this thread--I'd only heard the Sport/Flex thing. The Sport/Flex thing makes some sense to me, as there are family resemblances (not "OMG, that's a Flex on stilts!" but more like "I can see a resemblance from this angle"), but the Bronco/Flex thing makes no sense at all. I'm with you on the contrasting roof and boxy shape; they really don't even have styling cues in common, IMHO. 

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