Ford 2022 End of Year Sales Totals

[rperez817]

18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A big issue for Ford Motor is once they start an online reservation, it expects the dealers to take the flack from angry buyers hearing nothing on the ETA or location of their vehicle. That’s where dealers earn their money, assuring their buyers get their vehicles and that Ford doesn’t drop the ball.

 

No one likes ADMs but I wonder if online ordering is an opportunity to build in more cash to the dealer to keep track of orders, there has to be a way for Ford and it’s dealers to move forward with this so that both parties get defined returns from each sale. Yes, it’s a less competitive model but if Ford, GM and Stellantis don’t get their act together, new comers like Tesla will slice and dice them.

I just watched the Sandy Munro video below regarding Tesla profit margins, it shows how much money is in making and selling cars. Efficiency comes from having the right processes from start to finish and with Tesla, they are talking incredible underlying  profits, that’s why a drop in price doesn’t hurt them.

 

Thanks for sharing the Sandy Munro video jpd80. No surprise that Sandy Munro was right, his deep understanding of the automotive industry is legendary.

 

You are correct that the franchised new car dealership model is "less competitive" than direct to consumer sales. But it goes beyond that. The dealership model is fundamentally flawed because as John McElroy said, it fails to "ship product to the point of optimum demand". In November 2021, Jim Farley held a town hall meeting for Ford employees in which he talked about how far ahead of legacy automakers Tesla was. Farley mentioned the advantages of the direct model.

 

Quote

Look at Tesla, why are they doing what they’re doing and what can we learn from them. First, they have a direct model … There’s no one in between. They make it so easy. Three or four clicks configuring the vehicle with not a lot of complexity to delivering it to the customer. Simple, non-negotiated pricing. A large reservation system as well as remote service.

 

Shortly after Jim Farley's town hall meeting, CleanTechnica wrote.

Quote

The dealer model is pretty toxic to the auto industry. Before Tesla and its direct sales method came along, the only way you could buy a car was through a dealership or directly from the car owner. With regards to the latter, I know folks who got scammed from buying used cars off of Craigslist, but the former is highly toxic.

When Farley brought up the “direct model,” he was referring to how Tesla sells its vehicles. And his willingness to learn from Tesla indicates that he is considering changing how Ford’s vehicles are sold. He even admitted that there isn’t a lot of complexity, whereas how Tesla is selling and delivering vehicles to its customers is super simple. He noted that it has simple, clear pricing and that there is no negotiating. Farley is certainly aware of how many dealers scam their customers with markups and hidden fees. The question I have is what is he going to do about it? Will he follow Tesla’s lead and phase out dealerships?

 

 

Unfortunately, Farley and other legacy automaker executives won't be able to phase out dealerships in the U.S. easily. In time, the dealership model will go extinct. For now, initiatives that Ford is working on with its dealerships such as taking BEV seriously, sanctions on bad behavior by dealers involving markups, emphasis on retail orders, minimal new car inventory, and upgraded online ordering infrastructure are good starting points.

Edited January 22, 2023 by rperez817

[tarheels23]

21 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Agree, the perception of constant warranty issues  undoes all the other good work and advances with vehicle production and profits. Beyond that, it never ceases to amaze me how forgiving the market is, just be seen to be doing the right thing by making good on warranty and recall repairs goes a long way towards taking the heat out of much of the annoyance (not everyone of course).

just for me if a provider has an issue and takes care of the problem and treats me with respect that always makes a positive impression and I remember them for it

[Oac98]

I suppose Ford will let us know what’s going on with what they plan on doing from the time the Nautilus production ends this Oct rumor has it at OAC. Maybe they will import because that’s gonna end up being well over a year of nothing in that segment. Who knows? I sure as hell don’t! 

[Oac98]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:53 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:

If they ever end…..

Just watched a livestream of Jimmy Farley and company at your plant do you feel any better after hearing his corporate jargon??? If you were present or heard what they were saying. Quality this costs that etc etc etc 

[fuzzymoomoo]

48 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Just watched a livestream of Jimmy Farley and company at your plant do you feel any better after hearing his corporate jargon??? If you were present or heard what they were saying. Quality this costs that etc etc etc 

Haven’t heard it and I wasn’t there so I have no clue what he said. 

[Oac98]

You will hear cost cost cost quality quality quality etc etc 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

You will hear cost cost cost quality quality quality etc etc 

So basically he repeated what he said when he was at FRAP a few months ago. Probably not worth my time then. 

[jpd80]

9 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I suppose Ford will let us know what’s going on with what they plan on doing from the time the Nautilus production ends this Oct rumor has it at OAC. Maybe they will import because that’s gonna end up being well over a year of nothing in that segment. Who knows? I sure as hell don’t! 

Maybe a stockpile of Nautilus to carry on for several months beyond October….

[jpd80]

27 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

So basically he repeated what he said when he was at FRAP a few months ago. Probably not worth my time then. 

When a head keeps talking about quality problems that can’t be fixed immediately, who are they actually trying to convince 

[Oac98]

42 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Maybe a stockpile of Nautilus to carry on for several months beyond October….

That’s what I think we should do, maybe we will. We’ve been building a bit more than usual lately but the mix is high some weeks some weeks it isn’t. When we stopped the mkt it was weeks before the flex and we built more of both near the end. I believe the situation will be similar near end of production here. 

[Oac98]

51 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

So basically he repeated what he said when he was at FRAP a few months ago. Probably not worth my time then. 

They’re beating the cost drum heavy get the message out in a contract year! 

[jpd80]

29 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

That’s what I think we should do, maybe we will. We’ve been building a bit more than usual lately but the mix is high some weeks some weeks it isn’t. When we stopped the mkt it was weeks before the flex and we built more of both near the end. I believe the situation will be similar near end of production here. 

So what happens to you guys when production ends to reconfigure the plant, does Ford keep supporting you?

[jpd80]

31 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

They’re beating the cost drum heavy get the message out in a contract year! 

The irony is lost on Farley, his and Hackett’s cost saving measures did this to Ford’s quality

[Oac98]

52 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

When a head keeps talking about quality problems that can’t be fixed immediately, who are they actually trying to convince 

 

28 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

So what happens to you guys when production ends to reconfigure the plant, does Ford keep supporting you?

We will either get full SUB which is supplemental unemployment benefit or possibly have to get EI from the government and partial SUB. Or we get SWW aka Short Work Week. All of these are a percentage of our pay which obviously isn’t full pay like 70-80 percent or so fast estimate. I have no idea exactly because we have a Unifor contract to deal with this year the same year the UAW does for the first time. It’s gonna be interesting as the UAW always gets better deals than us lowly Canadians do. FOMOCO has told us minimal in regards to their EV plan for Oakville. Heard more from Automotive News than Ford. Anyways, after the contract we will know what we will be paid and more solid timelines not auto forecast solutions tentative dates.

[Oac98]

32 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The irony is lost on Farley, his and Hackett’s cost saving measures did this to Ford’s quality

Let’s hope whatever plan Farley wants to e execute it works

[akirby]

43 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

The irony is lost on Farley, his and Hackett’s cost saving measures did this to Ford’s quality

I don’t think it’s lost on them at all.  At this point why doesn’t matter, the budget is the budget so cost cutting is necessary.

[jpd80]

31 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

Let’s hope whatever plan Farley wants to e execute it works

The reason it takes years to fix quality issues is mostly because supplier contracts are locked in for longer terms to drive down prices, changes to fix things usually cost quite a bit (penalties) and most times companies like Ford prefer to “tough it out”. So the heads bang on about costs but really, the cheapest way for them is suffer the consequences and factor in changes for the next MCE 

[jpd80]

42 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t think it’s lost on them at all.  At this point why doesn’t matter, the budget is the budget so cost cutting is necessary.

Without a proper root cause analysis, how do you fix the problem?

The reason they have quality problems is cost cutting, so their answer is more cost cutting?

come on Ford, the chiefs screwed the pooch royally and are now looking at way to hide the cost of their decisions….

 

Now that a certain battery plant has been vetoed, maybe that opens up the budget in other areas…

I have a feeling that there are a few more “holes” coming in certain plans that will push new BEV launches backwards. Not meaning to be overly pessimistic here but Farley has bigger problems behind the scenes, quality is just a symptom that Ford will no doubt work through or at least try to mitigate. The bigger issue is the tens of billions promised to Mach E infrastructure, almost all of that depends on a properly functioning Ford that’s bringing in maximised profits…….if it under performs, do they borrow money or do they delay their plans…

Edited January 23, 2023 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

Heard more from Automotive News than Ford.

Yeah that’s not unique To you guys. Same shit happened to us when we went through the transition from Focus to Ranger then Bronco.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Without a proper root cause analysis, how do you fix the problem?

The reason they have quality problems is cost cutting, so their answer is more cost cutting?

come on Ford, the chiefs screwed the pooch royally and are now looking at way to hide the cost of their decisions….

 

You’re misunderstanding my point.  Cost cutting is required today because of mistakes made in the past.  If you’re on a tight budget and the hvac has to be replaced unexpectedly for $10k then you have to cut spending in other areas to pay for it  It has nothing to do with fixing the root cause and avoiding future unnecessary costs - but that obviously needs to be top priority going forward.

 

We’ve lost a lot of people due to retirement the last 14 months thanks to pension interest rate changes and changes to health care subsidies.  Our business is growing but we’re about to do forced layoffs because our costs have gone up significantly thanks to inflation.  That’s just reality.

 

 

 

 

[rmc523]

11 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I suppose Ford will let us know what’s going on with what they plan on doing from the time the Nautilus production ends this Oct rumor has it at OAC. Maybe they will import because that’s gonna end up being well over a year of nothing in that segment. Who knows? I sure as hell don’t! 

that’s why I’m saying while I don’t like the idea of an imported Chinese-built Nautilus, it may be a necessary evil for the brand in the short term until full replacements come online.

[akirby]

I still don’t see why it can’t continue to be built alongside Corsair.  Volume isn’t huge and it can even share powertrains.  I think the transverse 2.7L is dead anyway.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I still don’t see why it can’t continue to be built alongside Corsair.  Volume isn’t huge and it can even share powertrains.  I think the transverse 2.7L is dead anyway.

One of the issues could be Chinese specific supplier chain, a lot of changes were made to localise that vehicle….not saying it couldn’t happen, especially if Louisville runs until 2027 before electric vehicle change… extra employment 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

You’re misunderstanding my point.  Cost cutting is required today because of mistakes made in the past.  If you’re on a tight budget and the hvac has to be replaced unexpectedly for $10k then you have to cut spending in other areas to pay for it  It has nothing to do with fixing the root cause and avoiding future unnecessary costs - but that obviously needs to be top priority going forward.

 

We’ve lost a lot of people due to retirement the last 14 months thanks to pension interest rate changes and changes to health care subsidies.  Our business is growing but we’re about to do forced layoffs because our costs have gone up significantly thanks to inflation.  That’s just reality.

 

Good point 

Im remembering under Jim Hackett’s early days that “hold back” money for warranty work was taken and used elsewhere because of falling warranty costs….how things change over time.

[Oac98]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The reason it takes years to fix quality issues is mostly because supplier contracts are locked in for longer terms to drive down prices, changes to fix things usually cost quite a bit (penalties) and most times companies like Ford prefer to “tough it out”. So the heads bang on about costs but really, the cheapest way for them is suffer the consequences and factor in changes for the next MCE 

Good point there is a lot more complexity to it it can’t just happen overnight but they better make it happen I’ll say that much!