Future Products over the next four years from all makers

[silvrsvt]

https://www.facebook.com/TrueDelta/posts/pfbid02JbdXvZMvy8EpLLx6GeodjC2pyNmfCrvY9228CV3nPE8eqBahytKYa7kMP3fADMy3l

 

 

Somewhat interesting-they are reporting a Ford Edison model coming out the same time as the Explorer EV...maybe the "Edison" is the Bullet train model they are talking about?

[DeluxeStang]

36 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

https://www.facebook.com/TrueDelta/posts/pfbid02JbdXvZMvy8EpLLx6GeodjC2pyNmfCrvY9228CV3nPE8eqBahytKYa7kMP3fADMy3l

 

 

Somewhat interesting-they are reporting a Ford Edison model coming out the same time as the Explorer EV...maybe the "Edison" is the Bullet train model they are talking about?

Potentially, I'm just gonna say, I respect the historical connection. But calling a product the Edison just sounds super clunky and forced. I'm stunned ford hasn't decided to use the galaxy on some high performance future ev. Call it the galax-e or something. That name is perfect for a badass ev, but they're just sitting on it. 

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

https://www.facebook.com/TrueDelta/posts/pfbid02JbdXvZMvy8EpLLx6GeodjC2pyNmfCrvY9228CV3nPE8eqBahytKYa7kMP3fADMy3l

 

 

Somewhat interesting-they are reporting a Ford Edison model coming out the same time as the Explorer EV...maybe the "Edison" is the Bullet train model they are talking about?

Explorer EV is supposed to be large Edison it says it midsized where will this Edison go 

[Oac98]

I highly doubt ford would give OAC 4 new electrics. Ain’t gonna happen captain! 

[Oac98]

Maybe BOC is getting additional products to go with T3

[fuzzymoomoo]

They say a hybrid Mustang is coming next year. Didn’t we hear that got shitcanned? 

[pffan1990]

8 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

https://www.facebook.com/TrueDelta/posts/pfbid02JbdXvZMvy8EpLLx6GeodjC2pyNmfCrvY9228CV3nPE8eqBahytKYa7kMP3fADMy3l

 

Somewhat interesting-they are reporting a Ford Edison model coming out the same time as the Explorer EV...maybe the "Edison" is the Bullet train model they are talking about?

 

I think 'Edison' is just a general placeholder name until Ford officially announces the name. The 3-row Explorer is likely to have a name change due to more aero styling that's unlike the traditional Explorer styling. There's a post on another site, that's discussed in another thread here, that indicates Thunderbird is being considered. I do personally think Ford still has an actual Explorer EV that's planned with the rugged boxier styling and somewhat good off-road capability. However, to avoid confusion until official announcement by Ford, we'll continue to use the 'Explorer' for the 3-row aero styling EV for now. The 'Edison' will be the midsize EV, as indicated by the charts shown in the link.

 

6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

I highly doubt ford would give OAC 4 new electrics. Ain’t gonna happen captain! 

 

Ford keeps changing their plans that it's hard for any of us to keep up. lol It's still possible to have 4 EVs at OAC but that would include the Lincoln versions. For example, this Explorer 3-row EV with aero styling. The Lincoln version would be the Aviator. The link says there's the Ford 'Edison' midsize CUV EV coming alongside the Lincoln 'Star' as luxury midsize CUV EVs. Not sure if these will be made at OAC but we can presume so considering these will be GE2-based. That's 4. However, with changing plans, who knows what will be made at OAC. Seems like Ford would be communicating with the current workers at OAC to keep them in the loop to reassure them of their future job security.

 

41 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

They say a hybrid Mustang is coming next year. Didn’t we hear that got shitcanned? 

 

That's interesting to see it listed in the charts. Either it really is canceled and the list wasn't updated to reflect this (I doubt this). Or Ford decided to resurrect the Mustang Hybrid project, which could likely be it.

[Oac98]

22 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

 

I think 'Edison' is just a general placeholder name until Ford officially announces the name. The 3-row Explorer is likely to have a name change due to more aero styling that's unlike the traditional Explorer styling. There's a post on another site, that's discussed in another thread here, that indicates Thunderbird is being considered. I do personally think Ford still has an actual Explorer EV that's planned with the rugged boxier styling and somewhat good off-road capability. However, to avoid confusion until official announcement by Ford, we'll continue to use the 'Explorer' for the 3-row aero styling EV for now. The 'Edison' will be the midsize EV, as indicated by the charts shown in the link.

 

 

Ford keeps changing their plans that it's hard for any of us to keep up. lol It's still possible to have 4 EVs at OAC but that would include the Lincoln versions. For example, this Explorer 3-row EV with aero styling. The Lincoln version would be the Aviator. The link says there's the Ford 'Edison' midsize CUV EV coming alongside the Lincoln 'Star' as luxury midsize CUV EVs. Not sure if these will be made at OAC but we can presume so considering these will be GE2-based. That's 4. However, with changing plans, who knows what will be made at OAC. Seems like Ford would be communicating with the current workers at OAC to keep them in the loop to reassure them of their future job security.

 

 

That's interesting to see it listed in the charts. Either it really is canceled and the list wasn't updated to reflect this (I doubt this). Or Ford decided to resurrect the Mustang Hybrid project, which could likely be it.

It took Ford over 2 and a half years to OFFICIALLY announce that OAC is even getting retooled without the products names. First vehicle rumored to go there was the Corsair EV then that got scrapped. Now I’m seeing that name on this list again of future ford EV products. I question the accuracy of this report a bit  and agree with the points that you made. It seems as though the plan is being tweaked so who knows. How well would a hybrid mustang be received??? I think that’s quite interesting. Like I said in my previous posts I believe ford has some investment announcements in their pocket for the UAW as bargaining chips. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Oacjay98

[Rick73]

The Detroit News coverage of Car-Wars sounds like there is a lot of uncertainty; higher costs being one driver.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2022/06/30/car-wars-predicts-gm-ford-surpass-tesla-ev-sales-2025/7779913001/

 

 

“Those penetration projections, however, don't factor in the rapidly increasing price of EV material costs. The material costs for the major systems of an internal combustion engine total about $20,000. For an EV, they're about $32,000. Over the past year, that difference increased by $1,000 for the first time in at least six years. That difference makes penetration by 2025 closer to 10%, Murphy said.

 

"You're already seeing these prohibitive raises or increases in the raw material costs going into EVs," he said, "and that creates a real challenge for what the industry is going after — and the reality of what we'll actually be able to sell in the market."”

[fuzzymoomoo]

31 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

Seems like Ford would be communicating with the current workers

Thats hysterical 

[silvrsvt]

41 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

“Those penetration projections, however, don't factor in the rapidly increasing price of EV material costs. The material costs for the major systems of an internal combustion engine total about $20,000. For an EV, they're about $32,000. Over the past year, that difference increased by $1,000 for the first time in at least six years. That difference makes penetration by 2025 closer to 10%, Murphy said.

 

"You're already seeing these prohibitive raises or increases in the raw material costs going into EVs," he said, "and that creates a real challenge for what the industry is going after — and the reality of what we'll actually be able to sell in the market."”

 

My expectation is that this will be like the PC market when it comes to pricing-a desktop PC used to cost a couple thousand dollars about 25-30 years ago and by the end of the 1990s, it dropped to less then $1000.

 

With more battery production coming on line over the rest of the decade with different battery materials, it should help drop the price, which is primarily the cells needed for batteries. 

[akirby]

50 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

My expectation is that this will be like the PC market when it comes to pricing-a desktop PC used to cost a couple thousand dollars about 25-30 years ago and by the end of the 1990s, it dropped to less then $1000.

 

With more battery production coming on line over the rest of the decade with different battery materials, it should help drop the price, which is primarily the cells needed for batteries. 

 The original IBM PC with a black and white monitor and floppy disks was $4k in the late 70s.

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

 The original IBM PC with a black and white monitor and floppy disks was $4k in the late 70s.

 

Higher end PCs in the early 1990s where still around that...I remember the days of a Soundblaster Sound card costing $500. 

 

I think our first PC Clone (486SX) in 1990 or so was $2000-3000

 

Using the inflation calculator, a IBM PC in 1980 would be worth $14,709.89 in today's money. The 486 PC would be worth $5,853.10 today.

 

I put together a top end gaming PC back in December with water cooling (Ryzen 9 7900x and Radeon RX 7900XTX) for less then $3500. Only thing I didn't replace was my monitor. 

[jasonj80]

Thereis a considerable amount of missing vehicles (from all OEM's) on this list. 

[rperez817]

6 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Thereis a considerable amount of missing vehicles (from all OEM's) on this list. 

 

Thank you jasonj80, I figured that was the case. Do you know how accurate the sources of the data that Bank of America uses for its "Car Wars" study are? 

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

My expectation is that this will be like the PC market when it comes to pricing-a desktop PC used to cost a couple thousand dollars about 25-30 years ago and by the end of the 1990s, it dropped to less then $1000.

 

With more battery production coming on line over the rest of the decade with different battery materials, it should help drop the price, which is primarily the cells needed for batteries. 

Batteries may be different because cost is affected by limited raw materials, not just manufacturing technology and efficiency.  The same can be said for all the required copper for motors and wiring.  For a while lithium battery costs dropped rapidly, but as demand increased due to greater number of vehicles, plus other uses as well, prices stabilized or maybe went up some.  If I recall correctly, cost per kWh may have dropped below $100 but went back up (even when adjusted for inflation).

 

Different battery materials could help if inherently cheap, but battery demand and volume in itself doesn’t guarantee lower costs in my opinion.  There’s a reason diamonds,  gold and silver remain pricey over time.

 

ICE versus BEV cost parity may not be required for BEV adoption, but a difference of $12,000 per vehicle is a significant disincentive.  From my perspective smaller and more efficient BEVs are key to electrification success because they should be more affordable. 

[silvrsvt]

29 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Thereis a considerable amount of missing vehicles (from all OEM's) on this list. 

 

Yeah and the info isn't that accurate either in many cases too. 

[silvrsvt]

12 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Batteries may be different because cost is affected by limited raw materials, not just manufacturing technology and efficiency.  The same can be said for all the required copper for motors and wiring.  For a while lithium battery costs dropped rapidly, but as demand increased due to greater number of vehicles, plus other uses as well, prices stabilized or maybe went up some.  If I recall correctly, cost per kWh may have dropped below $100 but went back up (even when adjusted for inflation).

 

Different battery materials could help if inherently cheap, but battery demand and volume in itself doesn’t guarantee lower costs in my opinion.  There’s a reason diamonds,  gold and silver remain pricey over time.

 

Diamonds are artificially inflated by the DeBeers group and artificial diamonds are a thing. Gold and Silver are used as currency and are far more limited than other raw materials. 

 

If copper was that expensive, why are more complex electrical devices not more expensive because they use more of it?  Its recyclable also. 

[Rick73]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:21 AM, silvrsvt said:

 

My expectation is that this will be like the PC market when it comes to pricing-a desktop PC used to cost a couple thousand dollars about 25-30 years ago and by the end of the 1990s, it dropped to less then $1000.

 

With more battery production coming on line over the rest of the decade with different battery materials, it should help drop the price, which is primarily the cells needed for batteries. 

Let’s try again from different angle.

 

https://about.bnef.com/blog/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-rise-for-first-time-to-an-average-of-151-kwh/