Ford pauses Marshall Battery Plant

[Rangers09]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

No it isn't

 

Hardly a qualified expert in the potential or actual use of hydrogen for propulsion. His statement that it is currently only in use on test beds is incorrect, as the marine industry uses hydrogen on operational vessels. In Norway, the MF Hydra has been testing hydrogen for a couple of years, going fully operational this year. The first cruise ship with a hydrogen fuel cell for testing was launched last year and the same cruise line has multiple additional ships on order that will have larger operational hydrogen cells. 

 

While hydrogen may not have hit the automotive industry yet, it is definitely a future potential. I expect, the eventual introduction of hydrogen fuel cell technology in the automotive industry  will experience similar challenges as BEV's today, hopefully with limited range not being one of them.

[rperez817]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:13 PM, Texasota said:

The scrutiny Ford is getting from congress regarding the China (CATL) arrangement is likely playing a role. It may be a small factor or a large factor but it is presenting a set of headaches and undesirable attention for Ford.

 

Looks like U.S. Congress is turning up the heat on Ford regarding its licensing agreements with CATL for the plant in Marshall. If Ford doesn't comply with the document requests mentioned by the House Ways and Means Committee by Friday, October 6, Jim Farley may be asked to appear before Congress.  Letter to Ford on Cooperation with Investigation into Chinese Battery Partnership | Select Committee on the CCP (house.gov)

Edited September 28, 2023 by rperez817

[silvrsvt]

52 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

While hydrogen may not have hit the automotive industry yet, it is definitely a future potential. I expect, the eventual introduction of hydrogen fuel cell technology in the automotive industry  will experience similar challenges as BEV's today, hopefully with limited range not being one of them.

 

From bzcats post:

Quote

Hydrogen only makes sense if you have abundant free or very cheap carbon electricity (so you can make it from water), and the consumption point is close to the source. The first part is not happening anytime soon. Any carbon free electricity we generate (hydro, nuclear, solar, wind etc) are more efficiently used directly to power the grid and charge batteries. The conversion to hydrogen waste too much energy so the math doesn't work.

Hydrogen doesn't exist in the nature by itself in liquid form so you have to make it. The only commercially viable way to make hydrogen now and the foreseeable future is from natural gas (CH4). All the money that is going into "clean" hydrogen is actually just oil companies and fracking interest trying to find a way to fool consumers and regulators. They don't tell you hydrogen is just a significantly less efficient way to use natural gas. The energy loss of a liter of hydrogen compare to natural gas is about 60% conservatively speaking... Even if we somehow make a breakthrough in technology and lower than to 50% (which again, is basically impossible), it's still not even close! We are better off just converting gasoline car to run on CNG if we want to keep using natural gas. But we don't because you know... climate change and all that carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere. Hydrogen doesn't solve climate problem, in fact, it makes it worse because it is very inefficient storage medium for fossil fuel energy.

 

 

As for Peter Zeihan video-the guy is an internationally recognized geopolitical expert...he's pretty spot on with his information he provides and generally presents it in a politically neutral way.

Edited September 28, 2023 by silvrsvt

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Any carbon free electricity we generate (hydro, nuclear, solar, wind etc) are more efficiently used directly to power the grid and charge batteries.

More efficient than hydrogen, but replacing coal first is more efficient than charging vehicle batteries.

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

As for Peter Zeihan video-the guy is an internationally recognized geopolitical expert...he's pretty spot on with his information he provides and generally presents it in a politically neutral way.

 

He might be usually spot on with his information, but not in this case. He may be a geopolitical expert, but he clearly isn't a Subject Matter Expert (SME) in the use of hydrogen for propulsion, on a worldwide basis. Shortly after min 2, he mentioned the only people using hydrogen are those on test beds. As I noted in the previous post, this is not factual, as the marine industry is already using hydrogen for propulsion on operational vessels, with additional vessels currently under construction.

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, rperez817 said:

... Jim Farley may be asked to appear before Congress.

 

At one time, that was a significant thing to have to do...nowadays, it is meaningless due to the clowns on both sides of the isle looking for their sound bite instead of actually doing something meaningful.

Edited September 28, 2023 by twintornados

[silvrsvt]

11 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

 

He might be usually spot on with his information, but not in this case. He may be a geopolitical expert, but he clearly isn't a Subject Matter Expert (SME) in the use of hydrogen for propulsion, on a worldwide basis. Shortly after min 2, he mentioned the only people using hydrogen are those on test beds. As I noted in the previous post, this is not factual, as the marine industry is already using hydrogen for propulsion on operational vessels, with additional vessels currently under construction.

 

I think your reading into it-they are still test beds

 

https://blog.ballard.com/marine/first-hydrogen-powered-vessels-marine

There is no company, so far that has commited to buying/building a fleet of hydrogen powered ships yet. 
 

Edited September 28, 2023 by silvrsvt

[Rangers09]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think your reading into it-they are still test beds

 

https://blog.ballard.com/marine/first-hydrogen-powered-vessels-marine

There is no company, so far that has commited to buying/building a fleet of hydrogen powered ships yet. 
 

 

Sorry, wrong again. The Norwegian ferry has been operational since about March this year.

 

Viking Ocean cruise lines has committed to building a fleet of hydrogen powered cruise ships. The Viking Neptune was the first to enter service in Nov 22 with a small test hydrogen cell. Another 10 ships are currently on order, with the first hydrogen powered ship Viking Vela due to enter service late 2024.

 

Edit - I also recall reading recently that German mega yacht manufacturer Lurssen is building a hydrogen powered mega (> 100m) yacht.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Rangers09

[rmc523]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:43 AM, Gurgeh said:

It is ironic that the folks who are trying to push us out of single family homes into high-density living are the same folks trying to push us out of ICE-based vehicles into fully electric vehicles.

 

.....dictated/handed out from their own massive single family homes and property....

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Good article from Wall Street Journal today comparing the stance of Ford versus GM regarding tax credits for BEV that use battery components from any source that the U.S. deems a “foreign entity of concern”. This directly impacts Ford's Marshall, Michigan battery plant.  This Ford vs. GM Feud Could Shape the Future of EVs in America (msn.com)

 

 

 

 

While I don't necessarily like the idea of getting things from China, that seems like GM doesn't like that Ford may have an advantage, so they're working against it.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

While I don't necessarily like the idea of getting things from China, that seems like GM doesn't like that Ford may have an advantage, so they're working against it.

Which is ironic since GM started importing Chinese built vehicles well before Ford.

[rperez817]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:33 PM, rmc523 said:

seems like GM doesn't like that Ford may have an advantage, so they're working against it.

 

That's correct. GM has had a partnership with CATL since 2018 in China, so CATL as a company isn't the issue. GM is using the terms of the tax credit in the U.S. as a pretext to hobble possible competitive advantages for Ford that arise from Ford's licensing agreements with CATL.

[Deanh]

On 9/27/2023 at 4:43 AM, Gurgeh said:

It is ironic that the folks who are trying to push us out of single family homes into high-density living are the same folks trying to push us out of ICE-based vehicles into fully electric vehicles.

dont forget eating bugs and insects.. cooked on an electric stove in a non air conditioned house....

[paintguy]

On 9/29/2023 at 3:26 PM, Deanh said:

dont forget eating bugs and insects.. cooked on an electric stove in a non air conditioned house....

We are the carbon they want to reduce.