Explorer EV and Capri Not Selling

[T-dubz]

https://www.motor1.com/news/740842/ford-cuts-explorer-capri-ev-production/
 

Employees will be working every other week.

 

Edit: already being discussed here. feel free to delete

 

Edited November 13 by T-dubz

[DeluxeStang]

Ford needs to reconsider this premium pricing, low volume, we're gonna exit most segments strategy. It worked for quite some time, and I'm not saying they have to give up on this approach of making more aspirational products. But they need to rethink how they go about developing them. 

 

If you're gonna make icons, then make icons. Don't do this shit where you half ass a product, slap a beloved name on it, and then go around parading about how it's this aspirational iconic vehicle, because people are seeing through that. If you're gonna go for it, then go all the way. Actually put effort in rather than dusting off an old name and charging a 50% premium for it. 

[jpd80]

It’s still early days but high prices, bland styling and less performance than a Tesla make these nothing burgers.

If these don’t start selling, I’m predicting that Ford Europe will try to export them to ROW markets as a way of

recovering some costs. I think they’re obliged by VW’s contract to make a minimum number (250,000?)

 

And clearly, the executive that thought trashing iconic names this way, cared nothing for their history.

Edited November 13 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

It’s still early days but high prices, bland styling and less performance than a Tesla make these nothing burgers.

If these don’t start selling, I’m predicting that Ford Europe will try to export them to ROW markets as a way of

recovering some costs. I think they’re obliged by VW’s contract to make a minimum number (250,000?)

 

And clearly, the executive that thought trashing iconic names this way, cared nothing for their history.

It's a real conundrum. Ford needs to find a way to stand out against rising competition, they've decided the best way to do that is to lean into their heritage, not a bad idea by itself. The issue is most of Ford's icons from the past are cars, they aren't SUVs, trucks, or vans. Yes, they've made some iconic trucks and utilities, but most of their icons are cars. Cars that consumers aren't buying because everyone is crossover crazy. 

 

Perhaps the best approach is to develop "families" of products. The mach-e has been controversial, but many can stomach it because the normal mustang still exists. Perhaps if Ford develops a Capri coupe or sedan alongside the crossover it'll go over better with people. It doesn't help that the Capri design they created is quite ugly. If it had been executed at the same level as the mach-e which looks great, more people would have accepted it. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

It's a real conundrum. Ford needs to find a way to stand out against rising competition, they've decided the best way to do that is to lean into their heritage, not a bad idea by itself. The issue is most of Ford's icons from the past are cars, they aren't SUVs, trucks, or vans. Yes, they've made some iconic trucks and utilities, but most of their icons are cars. Cars that consumers aren't buying because everyone is crossover crazy. 

 

 

Icons

 

F series

Mustang

GT

Bronco

Explorer

 

And perhaps Ranger.

[DeluxeStang]

27 minutes ago, akirby said:

Icons

 

F series

Mustang

GT

Bronco

Explorer

 

And perhaps Ranger.

Maverick and transit as well. But these are existing icons that Ford already makes. Moving forward, they've talked about bringing back other iconic vehicles, products and nameplates they currently aren't offering. That's the issue. 

 

Beyond excursion, can you think of any iconic utilities and trucks from Ford's past they currently aren't offering? Because if someone says to me "What sort of iconic nameplates does Ford have that they currently aren't utilizing?" The answers that spring to mind are things like escort, Galaxy, gt, RS 200, all cars. 

[akirby]

28 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Maverick and transit as well. But these are existing icons that Ford already makes. Moving forward, they've talked about bringing back other iconic vehicles, products and nameplates they currently aren't offering. That's the issue. 

 

Beyond excursion, can you think of any iconic utilities and trucks from Ford's past they currently aren't offering? Because if someone says to me "What sort of iconic nameplates does Ford have that they currently aren't utilizing?" The answers that spring to mind are things like escort, Galaxy, gt, RS 200, all cars. 

I don’t think you understand what Icon means.  It does not mean popular.

[DeluxeStang]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don’t think you understand what Icon means.  It does not mean popular.

Enlighten me on how you view Ford's icons past and present. Where I'm coming from, I'm viewing Ford's icons as products they made that helped to establish who they were as a brand, that stuck out from the crowd and made Ford the pillar of exciting cars that they are today. 

 

Things like transit and maverick may not seem like icons, but apparently Farley looks at it differently. 

[Rick73]

53 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Enlighten me on how you view Ford's icons past and present. Where I'm coming from, I'm viewing Ford's icons as products they made that helped to establish who they were as a brand, that stuck out from the crowd and made Ford the pillar of exciting cars that they are today. 

 

Things like transit and maverick may not seem like icons, but apparently Farley looks at it differently. 

My 2 cents:  Original Maverick car was entry level commodity and hardly iconic if I recall correctly.  It was cheaper and roomier than a Mustang, but image not comparable.  I suppose Maverick can be associated with Wild West much like a Mustang or Bronco, which may be why Ford recycled for new pickup.  Also IIRC, Transit name was already in use in Europe (and maybe Mexico) when Transit van was first offered in US, so using the same name for the van made sense.  Excursion was a popular truck/SUV the first full year, but sales declined steadily over the next four years after that before it was cancelled.  It has a good following even today because it was so different, but does that make it iconic?  I don’t really know, but in my opinion “brand” or “name” only goes so far.  The vehicle must have substance or value, not just a notable name.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Enlighten me on how you view Ford's icons past and present. Where I'm coming from, I'm viewing Ford's icons as products they made that helped to establish who they were as a brand, that stuck out from the crowd and made Ford the pillar of exciting cars that they are today. 

 

Things like transit and maverick may not seem like icons, but apparently Farley looks at it differently. 

Icons are vehicles that are instantly recognizable as a Ford and have a long history and are among the best in their class.  Everybody knows F150, GT, Mustang and Explorer are Fords.  Show 100 people a debadged Maverick and you’d be lucky if half know it’s a Ford.  It’s too new.  And Transit is only well known in the fleet world.

 

Thats totally separate from the desirable vehicles that Farley wants.  Some icons fit that role, some may not.  But you keep Icons like Mustang even if they’re not profitable - because it’s an icon of Ford Motor Company with a 60 year history.

Edited November 14 by akirby

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Icons are vehicles that are instantly recognizable as a Ford and have a long history and are among the best in their class.  Everybody knows F150, GT, Mustang and Explorer are Fords.  Show 100 people a debadged Maverick and you’d be lucky if half know it’s a Ford.  It’s too new.  And Transit is only well known in the fleet world.

 

Thats totally separate from the desirable vehicles that Farley wants.  Some icons fit that role, some may not.  But you keep Icons like Mustang even if they’re not profitable - because it’s an icon of Ford Motor Company with a 60 year history.

Which is why it's confusing when Farley refers to the Maverick as one of Ford's iconic products. The way I look at it is while the maverick is new, it still ties into a defining segment of Fords brand, trucks, so they're viewing it as more iconic in that regard. It's more unique, and desirable than a base model focus or something. It sounds like Ford is labeling any unique/desirable vehicle in it's lineup as icons. 

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

My 2 cents:  Original Maverick car was entry level commodity and hardly iconic if I recall correctly.  It was cheaper and roomier than a Mustang, but image not comparable.  I suppose Maverick can be associated with Wild West much like a Mustang or Bronco, which may be why Ford recycled for new pickup.  Also IIRC, Transit name was already in use in Europe (and maybe Mexico) when Transit van was first offered in US, so using the same name for the van made sense.  Excursion was a popular truck/SUV the first full year, but sales declined steadily over the next four years after that before it was cancelled.  It has a good following even today because it was so different, but does that make it iconic?  I don’t really know, but in my opinion “brand” or “name” only goes so far.  The vehicle must have substance or value, not just a notable name.

Which is why Ford's not seeing the explorer/Capri EVs taking off, part of the reason anyways. They're letting historical names do all the heavy lifting rather than putting actual effort into the vehicles. 

[pictor]

When I purchased my Tesla the price, range and super charger combination couldn’t be beat in the US.  A year later that is changing with access to the supercharger network expanding and other Manufactures bring more better priced products to market.  In Europe, cheaper competent Chinese EV’s are entering the market along with other lower cost European brands making it a tough market for Ford using the expensive  Volkswagen platform.  The high end of the market in the EU is well covered by the premium brands leaving Ford of Europe stuck in the middle.

 

[akirby]

6 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Which is why it's confusing when Farley refers to the Maverick as one of Ford's iconic products. The way I look at it is while the maverick is new, it still ties into a defining segment of Fords brand, trucks, so they're viewing it as more iconic in that regard. It's more unique, and desirable than a base model focus or something. It sounds like Ford is labeling any unique/desirable vehicle in it's lineup as icons. 

He’s saying he wants to build vehicles that turn into Icons.  Maverick could well turn into an Icon down the road.  Raptor is a newer brand that probably qualifies now.  Taurus was iconic back in the 90s but that market is gone now.

[Chrisgb]

13 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Maverick and transit as well. But these are existing icons that Ford already makes. Moving forward, they've talked about bringing back other iconic vehicles, products and nameplates they currently aren't offering. That's the issue. 

 

Beyond excursion, can you think of any iconic utilities and trucks from Ford's past they currently aren't offering? Because if someone says to me "What sort of iconic nameplates does Ford have that they currently aren't utilizing?" The answers that spring to mind are things like escort, Galaxy, gt, RS 200, all cars. 

Ford could open up the Mercury file: Mariner, Mountaineer, Villager.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Chrisgb said:

Ford could open up the Mercury file: Mariner, Mountaineer, Villager.

I don't know about that, but I'm surprised they haven't tapped into the Galaxy name for their products. That's a historical name that's ripe to return on some sort of exciting EV. 

[Biker16]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to import that excess production to the US?

[mackinaw]

39 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I don't know about that, but I'm surprised they haven't tapped into the Galaxy name for their products. That's a historical name that's ripe to return on some sort of exciting EV. 

 

Except they should use the 1960's spelling.....Galaxie.

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

Ford could open up the Mercury file: Mariner, Mountaineer, Villager.

How about Comet?

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, Biker16 said:

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to import that excess production to the US?

 

And still have it not sell...it would still be a 40k+ for a smaller C class car. 

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Except they should use the 1960's spelling.....Galaxie.

It's also occured to me that they could do the -e naming structure that's so popular on EVs like the mach e. So like galax-e or something. 

[jpd80]

2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Except they should use the 1960's spelling.....Galaxie.

Unfortunately the  Galaxy name was used on an Euro MPV, it still grates on Galaxie history

Edited November 14 by jpd80

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

How about Comet?

He’s with Cupid and Blitzen…..

[Chrisgb]

4 hours ago, Rick73 said:

How about Comet?

I was staying with Merc's SUV and van names. Marauder or Caliente could work, Comet, Meteor Bobcat not so much.

[mackinaw]

33 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

I was staying with Merc's SUV and van names. Marauder or Caliente could work, Comet, Meteor Bobcat not so much.

 

Marauder and Caliente.......definitely.  Cyclone could work too.