The Taurus is back!

[LSFan00]

What the heck does the Mondeo have to do with anything? The Mondeo is the size of the Fusion and offers nowhere near the room of the D3's. Any Mondeo derivitive we get in the US will be a replacement for the Fusion. Around 2010-11 would also be right about when the D3's would be due for a full-up redesign as well.

 

Chronology: Old Taurus to Five Hundred/Fusion to NEW TAURUS/Fusion.

 

The problem is a lack of c-class, to complement the Focus, so that there can be ONE car larger than that, and a Panther-style large vehicle. The next new Mondeo can indeed replace the newly resurrected Taurus and Fusion. You'll only be looking at about 3,000 vehicles a month tops by 2011 for the Taurus anyway.

It wouldn't really be a BAD thing for those two vehicles to compete with one another either.

 

Wrong. As Yoda said; "Do, or do not, there is no try." Quit making lame attempts to create vehicles appetizing to import/domestic/RWD/FWD/AWD/rental car/retail/anyone else you can think of customers and make a nice, mid-size 4 door vehicle that people want to buy. Don't skimp on the warranty, or interior.

 

And if Ford can manage to limit fleet sales on the Five Hundred with its dismal sales, there's absolutely no reason to assume that they'd be forced to rely on fleet sales more in the future if retails sales increase due to the name change and refresh.

 

Ford sold 3,500 Ford 500's last month. New engine, 3-bar grille, Taurus name, and new headlights will sustain that sales rate for a few years, earning the company essentially no profit. There's no money, or resources to create a SHO version, or really build a good hybrid, or turn the engine 90-degrees, or put the Volvo high-output motor in, etc. The product is simply an abysmal failure of an attempt to bifurcate the mid-size sales into a higher-end non-fleet-sales, bigger, bland, Taurus. Thank the higher-level management or whatever your peeve is, but the 500/new-Taurus is hopeless, and a LWB-new-Mondeo will replace it in the 2011 timeframe, if the company replaces it at all.

[ice-capades]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17003763/

 

Holy Crap!

 

 

Now this is what I would fully credit as a BOLD MOVE by Alan Mulally, Ford's new CEO! Personally, I think that the Fusion model is a lot closer to the Taurus model in size, etc. but it's an appropriate move, in my opinion, that Ford seize the opportunity to re-introduce the Taurus nameplate on the upcoming refreshed and repowered Five Hundred chassis. Sure, it would be nice to be able to wait until a major redesign was done but right now... time is of the essence and Ford's CEO is seizing the opportunity. The change can only help Ford and its dealers... especially if the marketing campaign highlights the changes effectively and competitive advantages, etc.

Edited February 6, 2007 by ice-capades

[igor]

What the heck does the Mondeo have to do with anything? The Mondeo is the size of the Fusion and offers nowhere near the room of the D3's. Any Mondeo derivitive we get in the US will be a replacement for the Fusion. Around 2010-11 would also be right about when the D3's would be due for a full-up redesign as well.

 

Chronology: Old Taurus to Five Hundred/Fusion to NEW TAURUS/Fusion.

 

The problem is a lack of c-class, to complement the Focus, so that there can be ONE car larger than that, and a Panther-style large vehicle. The next new Mondeo can indeed replace the newly resurrected Taurus and Fusion. You'll only be looking at about 3,000 vehicles a month tops by 2011 for the Taurus anyway.

It wouldn't really be a BAD thing for those two vehicles to compete with one another either.

 

Wrong. As Yoda said; "Do, or do not, there is no try." Quit making lame attempts to create vehicles appetizing to import/domestic/RWD/FWD/AWD/rental car/retail/anyone else you can think of customers and make a nice, mid-size 4 door vehicle that people want to buy. Don't skimp on the warranty, or interior.

 

And if Ford can manage to limit fleet sales on the Five Hundred with its dismal sales, there's absolutely no reason to assume that they'd be forced to rely on fleet sales more in the future if retails sales increase due to the name change and refresh.

 

Ford sold 3,500 Ford 500's last month. New engine, 3-bar grille, Taurus name, and new headlights will sustain that sales rate for a few years, earning the company essentially no profit. There's no money, or resources to create a SHO version, or really build a good hybrid, or turn the engine 90-degrees, or put the Volvo high-output motor in, etc. The product is simply an abysmal failure of an attempt to bifurcate the mid-size sales into a higher-end non-fleet-sales, bigger, bland, Taurus. Thank the higher-level management or whatever your peeve is, but the 500/new-Taurus is hopeless, and a LWB-new-Mondeo will replace it in the 2011 timeframe, if the company replaces it at all.

 

wow so many factual errors ..

 

I actually see your point, but I do think that you use your failing memory to support your pessimism..

 

1) if Ford wanted any Volvo engine would fit .. .this is after all VOLVO PLATFORM ... and Volvo like the FH/Taurus mount their negines transversely.

 

2) the Taurus/FH have a legit market .. also served by Avalon, Maxima, Lucerne, Impala, Chrysler 300, Charger/Magnum, Grand Prix/G8 .... none of them sell as much as true mid size sedans, but plenty people like their large sedans. Trust me Mondeo would not attract more than 10-15% of the Five Hundred/Taurus market.

 

3) that said, Fusion also has a crucial segment to serve and cannot be compromised just to also satisfy bot the CD and D segments. Look at Camry .. if you see any signs of weakness, they are from becoming too D attractive .. and when you look at the last redesign it was clearly focused on making it more attractive in the Cd segment.

 

anyways .. ford has issues .. lots of them .. and this will not solve them .. but it will not hurt , and it replaces one of the past stupidities ..

 

Igor

Edited February 6, 2007 by igor

[NickF1011]

What the heck does the Mondeo have to do with anything? The Mondeo is the size of the Fusion and offers nowhere near the room of the D3's. Any Mondeo derivitive we get in the US will be a replacement for the Fusion. Around 2010-11 would also be right about when the D3's would be due for a full-up redesign as well.

 

Chronology: Old Taurus to Five Hundred/Fusion to NEW TAURUS/Fusion.

 

The problem is a lack of c-class, to complement the Focus, so that there can be ONE car larger than that, and a Panther-style large vehicle. The next new Mondeo can indeed replace the newly resurrected Taurus and Fusion. You'll only be looking at about 3,000 vehicles a month tops by 2011 for the Taurus anyway.

It wouldn't really be a BAD thing for those two vehicles to compete with one another either.

 

Wrong. As Yoda said; "Do, or do not, there is no try." Quit making lame attempts to create vehicles appetizing to import/domestic/RWD/FWD/AWD/rental car/retail/anyone else you can think of customers and make a nice, mid-size 4 door vehicle that people want to buy. Don't skimp on the warranty, or interior.

 

And if Ford can manage to limit fleet sales on the Five Hundred with its dismal sales, there's absolutely no reason to assume that they'd be forced to rely on fleet sales more in the future if retails sales increase due to the name change and refresh.

 

Ford sold 3,500 Ford 500's last month. New engine, 3-bar grille, Taurus name, and new headlights will sustain that sales rate for a few years, earning the company essentially no profit. There's no money, or resources to create a SHO version, or really build a good hybrid, or turn the engine 90-degrees, or put the Volvo high-output motor in, etc. The product is simply an abysmal failure of an attempt to bifurcate the mid-size sales into a higher-end non-fleet-sales, bigger, bland, Taurus. Thank the higher-level management or whatever your peeve is, but the 500/new-Taurus is hopeless, and a LWB-new-Mondeo will replace it in the 2011 timeframe, if the company replaces it at all.

 

I fail to follow your logic here at all. Are you saying that the next gen Mondeo is going to balloon in size to that of the current Five Hundred? If not, then the Taurus will still have a very large niche in which to reside. Will the next gen Taurus and Mondeo use the same chassis? Very likely they will both be EUCD2. But that hardly means they won't be two very distinct products. A CD-sized vehicle has a completely different market than a D-sized vehicle, even if they share the platform -- look at the Camry and Avalon. Assuming the current vehicle's shortcomings are addressed with the EUCD2 variant due around 2010-2011, there's no reason to believe the Taurus won't perform in the market much better than the Five Hundred. We've also yet to see what impact, if any, the refresh and new V6 will have on sales.

 

The only full-line automaker to only offer ONE car in the entire CD-D segment is Honda with the Accord. Everyone else offers more than that: Camry-Avalon, Malibu-Impala, Altima-Maxima, Sebring-300, Avenger-Charger, G6-G8, etc. Some of those are RWD or going that way, but only the 300 has demonstrated it can truly get by with it so far.

 

If the Taurus is still selling 3000 units a month in 2011, I'll eat my words. But I have a slight inkling that that won't be the case.

Edited February 6, 2007 by NickF1011

[LSFan00]

I don't really think comparing Ford's midsize strategy with Dodge and Pontiac is a useful analogy as far as "they do it so we should too." Altima/Maxima similarly is pretty silly, IMHO. Avalon is just a heavier, luxed out version of the Camry. And for brands that do have good re-sale values etc., they can afford to sell multiple models into a segment without the dilution/extended product cycles Ford has to deal with thanks to poor planning/sales.

 

You may think you could just drop Volvo motors in, but since it hasn't been done, and isn't likely to be done, so what?

 

So what are the goals 6 months and 12 months from now for this product? 10K per month? 20K per month after the rebadge? Don't try to pretend sales will skyrocket thanks to this refresh. Ford's sales guidance will be out in a couple months on the new Taurus, and I will bet it shows no more than 40K-50K sales per year.

[SysEng]

Well, I'd say Ford has taken step #1... return the 500 to the Taurus nameplate. Step #2 is a redesign. The last "Taurus" was actually a fairly "pretty" car compared to the "500". And yes, the "interceptor" styling is almost an exact fit for the 500 as either a FWD/AWD. These are the obvious moves. The not so obvious moves involve trying to lose 500lbs in the weight department and gettting a 3.8L V6 and something on the order of a 6F60 auto tranny in there.

 

Remember, the SysEng strategy is heavy on safe, reliable and economical for the customer... and the competition be damned ... not the other way around.

[g48150]

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is strictly a Customer-Focused move, nothing more, nothing less.

 

I would imagine very few people have the same "fondness" for the technical details of what the prev-gen Taurus was. As most people in the USA are Type A "don't bore me with details" people, the whole "segment" argument loses A LOT of meaning.

 

This is a customer-focused move, why kill the name when so many Type A people "know" about it and generally had a decent memory of it.

 

This is called "getting famous by proxy", we detail-oriented people KNOW that the 500 and Taurus couldn't be MORE different technically, but the "target customer" could really care less, and in terms of product is WTF, but in terms of knowing the target customer, its pure genius.

 

Its the Customer, stupid...

[BORG]

AWESOME! I'm thrilled they are doing this! It should do wonders to help bring attention to the 500, and it's coming at a good time with the update. I'm not so sure they should rename Montego to Sable, but it works for me.

[Len_A]

QUOTE(Hugh @ Feb 6 2007, 02:01 PM) Granted;

 

I wonder what sites like www.myford500.com feel about this.

 

Thanks for the timeline Igor, I'll believe it when I tune in tomorrow.

http://www.myford500.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8343

 

:D

 

nothing nice

 

Igor

Add these links, too:

 

http://www.myford500.com/forums/8347-ford-...-sel-owner.html

 

http://www.myford500.com/forums/8342-ford-...ome-taurus.html

 

http://www.myford500.com/forums/8341-ford-...ome-taurus.html

 

Add to that: I post in this forum under the same user-name, and yes, that's my letter to Mulally. As a customer, a former Taurus owner, and an early adopter/buyer of the Montego, I could care less whether anyone at Ford thinks the Taurus name has any life in it. I'm insulted by this decision. Another stupid move from Ford.

[Len_A]

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is strictly a Customer-Focused move, nothing more, nothing less.

 

I would imagine very few people have the same "fondness" for the technical details of what the prev-gen Taurus was. As most people in the USA are Type A "don't bore me with details" people, the whole "segment" argument loses A LOT of meaning.

 

This is a customer-focused move, why kill the name when so many Type A people "know" about it and generally had a decent memory of it.

 

This is called "getting famous by proxy", we detail-oriented people KNOW that the 500 and Taurus couldn't be MORE different technically, but the "target customer" could really care less, and in terms of product is WTF, but in terms of knowing the target customer, its pure genius.

 

Its the Customer, stupid...

Well, my opinion, as a D3 customer (a 2005 Montego),, myself, and most of the D3 customers posting on www.myford500.com, think that not only is this a purely idiotic move, but an insult, and a probable reason for our Five Hundred's and Montego's to depreciate even faster.

 

Pure genius? No way.

[Joe771476]

Great, but will the public be fooled?

[BORG]

I'm sure Ford had to weight 500 vs. Taurus loyalty, but the simple fact is that Taurus has a MASSIVE following which would service Ford's interests far better.

[Len_A]

Here's a tidbit to all the people here who think this is such a great move:

 

From the on-line article from the Detroit Free Press: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...1/70206018/1014

 

Indeed, the Taurus has the lowest resale value of any General Motors Corp. or Ford car or truck on the market, according to data from Automotive Leasing Guide.

 

The estimated resale value on a new Taurus after three years of ownership is 29% of the sticker price, showing how severely damaged the brand has become over the years. (my emphasis)

 

The Ford Mustang, by contrast, has a resale value of 54% of the sticker price after three years of ownership.

 

A vehicle's resale value is considered one of the primary measures of brand strength.

 

F***ing chew on those facts for a while. This is one of the stupidest moves Ford has done. DN101 Taurus's piss poor resale value will become a stone around the D3's neck. Mulally should go the hell back to Boeing. Selling a consumer product like cars is a hell of a lot different than selling passenger jets. What ever good will he had, up until now, will be burned up in a flash if this move doesn't work, and I truly question if it will.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Len_A

[Shoman594]

Great news!

 

 

One article had a great point...

 

"If Ford wants to bring back the Taurus name, it needs to follow its own example--reinvent the car from the ground up and shake up the industry, just as the original Taurus did back in 1985."

 

I agree ford needs something that will set the market on FIRE!

 

 

As you can see by my screen name I am really hoping that the SHO will return!!!

 

I have a feeling at the press event in Chicago that some of the automotive jorunalists will be asking about the SHO.

[RichardJensen]

Taurus has a MASSIVE following

Too bad no one in that "massive following" wants a new Taurus.

 

If the reaction of the public at large is anything like the sampling on this board, this is a decision being roundly applauded by people that will never buy the car, that don't particularly care for the car, that don't understand the car, and that generally assume that their personal tastes are indicative of the world at large (give it more HP, baby!) Meanwhile people that actually like the car, have bought it, and care enough to join a community over it, are rolling their eyes.

 

It strikes me as nothing short of amazing that the wannabes on this board are making fun of people that actually paid money to Ford for their Five Hundreds, and who have a problem with the sheer arbitrariness of this decision.

 

I would like to meet all these people who have held off buying a new Ford because they can't trade in their old Taurus on a new Taurus. Nick is, thus far, the only person to provide even an anecdotal example.

 

In the mean time, as I've mentioned on the blog, this is just grist for the "Ford is hopeless" mill.

 

g48150: I'd like to see proof that this is a customer oriented decision, because right now it smacks of "Mulally wants a Taurus" and nothing else.

[RichardJensen]

When the Jeep comes up for replacement, I would consider the new Taurus. I would have considered it before the name change, but if they come out with an AWD SHO, I guarantee you it will be sitting in my garage next to my Explorer come March '09.

"I would've considered it before the name change"

 

EXACTLY!!

 

What was the point??????????????????

 

WHAT WAS THE POINT?????

[2005Explorer]

Here's a tidbit to all the people here who think this is such a great move:

 

From the on-line article from the Detroit Free Press: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...1/70206018/1014

F***ing chew on those facts for a while. This is one of the stupidest moves Ford has done. DN101 Taurus's piss poor resale value will become a stone around the D3's neck. Mulally should go the hell back to Boeing. Selling a consumer product like cars is a hell of a lot different than selling passenger jets. What ever good will he had, up until now, will be burned up in a flash if this move doesn't work, and I truly question if it will.

 

I disagree. Sure the old design Taurus/Sable had poor resale value...but NOT because they were a bad car or unpopular. They had poor resale value because you had thousands and thousands of them coming off of fleet duty with low miles. I live in a small midwestern town and there are late model Taurus' all over the place. No one would buy a Taurus new when they could save a lot of money and get one a year old or less with 10-15,000 miles and warranty on it. Why would you buy a new Taurus when you could pick up a slightly used one for thousands off the sticker price??? That is what caused re-sale value to drop. I know of dealers who would have tons of these "program" cars in stock.

 

You could go to any place in the United States and ask people what a Taurus is...they will tell you it is a 4 door family sedan. Ask them what a 500 is? Half of them won't have a clue. It's not just because of marketing, it is because the name is so forgetable. Think of all the Taurus' on the road today...if they have good luck with them...they will be interested in a "all new" Taurus. A name of a car is all about marketing and the biggest problem is that Ford has came up with a lot of forgetable names...the worse of all was Five-Hundred...and the second was Freestar. I bet if the Freestar had kept the name Windstar...it would still be in production today.

 

The same could be said with the name Sable. I personally think Montego is a better name...but once again...go ask the average consumer and most will tell you a Sable is a Mercury. Ask about a Montego and they will say...is that a good vacation destination???

 

Names matter to people. There is something psycological about giving the car a "personality" even a family sedan. This is a good move. It certainly won't hurt.

[RichardJensen]

500 SHO as no "ring" to it.

Yeah, because that's what it's all about. Namedropping to the valet after dinner.

 

"Oh, yes, I had the Silver Spirit"

[eddiehaskell]

the simple fact is that Taurus has a MASSIVE following

 

This aint 1994.

 

The Taurus name will need to be built up from scratch. If anything, the Taurus name plate is one of the worst in the industry. I'd never want to tell people I drive a Taurus.

[Len_A]

I'm sure Ford had to weight 500 vs. Taurus loyalty, but the simple fact is that Taurus has a MASSIVE following which would service Ford's interests far better.

A "massive following" that was 60% fleet sales up until the 2006 model year, and then over 80% fleet for 2006. Yea, great following.

 

Do any of stop and think that Camry and Accord sales numbers are over 91% retail customers? Does a 29% resale value for a three year old Taurus even register with any of you?

 

A 2003 Taurus SEL, with the Duratec V-6 and 36000 miles on it Blue Books at about $8700 for trade-in.

 

A 2003 Toyota Camry XLE, with a V-6, and 57,000 miles, in the same condition, Blue Books at over $12,000 at trade in. With 36000 miles, it trades in at over $13,000

 

This is great brand equity for the Taurus name? Give me a break.

[RichardJensen]

You could go to any place in the United States and ask people what a Taurus is...they will tell you it is a 4 door family sedan.

If only it were that simple.

 

But when SNL can get laughs by noting the passing of the Taurus as the vehicle for thirtysomethings who have "officially given up on their dreams"....

 

What happens if your target customer, when asked about a Taurus says, "Oh, isn't that a cheap crap-car?"

 

I mean, it's true they don't KNOW what a Five Hundred is, but they have decidedly negative feelings about the Taurus.

 

I can tell you which is tougher to overcome....

 

Furthermore, I am extremely skeptical of any market research that went into this decision. It has all the look and feel of "lets cook up some numbers to justify what the boss wants"..... A practice that gave us the '96 Taurus in all its Taurus.

[Len_A]

I disagree. Sure the old design Taurus/Sable had poor resale value...but NOT because they were a bad car or unpopular. They had poor resale value because you had thousands and thousands of them coming off of fleet duty with low miles. I live in a small midwestern town and there are late model Taurus' all over the place. No one would buy a Taurus new when they could save a lot of money and get one a year old or less with 10-15,000 miles and warranty on it. Why would you buy a new Taurus when you could pick up a slightly used one for thousands off the sticker price??? That is what caused re-sale value to drop. I know of dealers who would have tons of these "program" cars in stock.

You're basically making my argument for me. Taurus is a fleet queen. Gone for all of one model year, and now it's going to try and be more upscale (and let's face it, with all the features available on the Five Hundred, it was always more of a premium car than the Taurus). This move has "stupid" written all over it.

 

I'll bet that Ford's marketing department was 100% against this..until Mulally shot off his mouth about Ford abandoning the Taurus. Then I'll bet they turned into "yes" men to save their own asses.

[RichardJensen]

60% fleet sales up until the 2006 model year

It was higher than that.

 

Then there is the legitimate question for buyers: "Is Ford going to start dumping these into rental fleets?"

 

The answer is decidedly no. Ford is taking a bath on the D3s right now because they are not fleet dumping, or slapping $7k incentives on them.

 

But what's that worth if people just assume "Taurus, oh, yeah, I can get one of those for $5k when Hertz sells it next year"?

[jpd80]

I could personally care less if they change the name or not. The name doesn't make a car, the car makes the name. Nobody knows "500", and everybody knows Taurus.

 

Now if we can just convince Alan to get rid of the three bar.......

 

The 500 is definitely a dud, there's no name recognition so the product sits in showrooms. Sure name it Taurus but, without heavy advertising Ford won't get any improvement in sales.

[2005Explorer]

It was higher than that.

 

Then there is the legitimate question for buyers: "Is Ford going to start dumping these into rental fleets?"

 

The answer is decidedly no. Ford is taking a bath on the D3s right now because they are not fleet dumping, or slapping $7k incentives on them.

 

But what's that worth if people just assume "Taurus, oh, yeah, I can get one of those for $5k when Hertz sells it next year"?

 

Richard I usually agree with you on lots of things, but this is one thing I don't. I honestly believe that the car will sell better with the name Taurus then the little known Five-Hundred. I mean...when I think 500 I am more likely to think Chrysler...or even GM then Ford. What is a Five-Hundred? No one knows. Its a number value. But a number for what? I guess they could have canned the Five-Hundred name and came up with another new name...but honestly I don't think Taurus is a bad name.

 

Look at all the interest this has been met with on this message board...people are all over it. It is likely to spark consumers interest and when the new model hits the showroom they will be more likely to go in and see how much better the new Taurus is then the old one...then they would be to go and check out a freshened 500.

 

I may not be an auto industry expert (i have been reminded of that on here) but anyone can look and see what happened with the Freestar. Is there anyone here that honestly thought dropping the Windstar name was a good move? The name change ruined that vehicle. If it would have came out as the redesigned Windstar it would have done better.

 

People KNOW what a Taurus is...there is positives and negatives of that common knowledge. There are people who have good memories of a Taurus and people that have bad memories...but the fact is...at least they HAVE memories of the car.

 

Look at it this way...are more people driving a Taurus right now or a Five-Hundred? I would assume there are millions more Taurus' on the road then 500's. People do go back to the same brand and model if it has been updated and they have had a good experience. Sure some will have a bad experience...but the fact remains you have a much bigger base to draw future customers from.

 

Will it help with sales...I think so...but I know it sure won't hurt.