svttim Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 The 351 Windsor was an outgrowth of the 221/260/289 and 302 small block ford V8. Basically higher deck, longer stroke, longer con rods. It was designed to replace the FE series 352 in a smaller and lighter package. They called it 351 but in reality, it like the 351 Cleveland had exactly the same displacement as the 352, ie 351.858cubic inches! The 351 Cleveland came later, around 1970. The Boss 351 was a high performance version of the 351 Cleveland with all the good stuff, high compression, forged crank and pistons and about 330 net hp on the B curve. When the compression ratio's started to go down around 1971/1972 model years, Ford came out with the 351 Cobrajet. This engine was another Cleveland 351 adjusted for lower compression. Power was down in the 290 hp B curve. I remember because at that time, around 1971 I worked at Ford and remember testing the 351 Cobrajet on the Ford Dearborn test Track. I think it was in a Ford Torino 2 dr. with 4 on the floor. I think Ford did offer a 351 Windsor with a four barrel carberator until the 351Cleveland came out! The interesting thing about all these engines was they all had the same bore spacing, 4.38". The Windsor was lighter and easier to pass emissions with. 1975 is when the first year for catalytic converters used on cars. The focus then was on passing emissions and improving fuel economy! Ford kept performance alive with the Mustang Turbo 4, followed by the Mustang V8's The Mustang V8 didn't do anything great until Ford put a Holley 4 barrel and Borg Warner 5 speed manual into the product. I think this was done in the 1983 time period. It will be interesting to see how Ford does with this new Boss/Hurricane V8???? Let me know how the development is going if anyone knows. Im retired after Ford also had an R code cleveland in 72, Essential an open chamber Boss 351. Had a little less hoursepower than the Boss and a bit more than the 351 CJ. These are rare cars today. The 82 Mustang GT, with its two Barrel carb actually started a big stir. Faster than the Trans Am's of that day, it actually started (IMHO) the current hoursepower race. 83 did receive the 4V carb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 (edited) Ford also had an R code cleveland in 72, Essential an open chamber Boss 351. Had a little less hoursepower than the Boss and a bit more than the 351 CJ. These are rare cars today. The 82 Mustang GT, with its two Barrel carb actually started a big stir. Faster than the Trans Am's of that day, it actually started (IMHO) the current hoursepower race. 83 did receive the 4V carb. After sufficient stocks were built up in 1972, the Cleveland's castings and machinery was transfered to Geelong engine plant, Australia where it lived happily as 302/351 until 1984. Edited April 7, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 After sufficient stocks were built up in 1972, the Cleveland's castings and machinery was transfered to Geelong engine plant, Australia where it lived happily as 302/351 until 1984. Is this where the closed chamber 2V heads were produced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Is this where the closed chamber 2V heads were produced? Yuppers, But they are not much better (if at all) then your run of the mill US spec 2V head (Up to 1974). All they are good for is a compression pump without tearing down the engine. 1974 was the first year Im aware of that Ford used cats on cars. In factory trim, The 351W was never built as well as a 351C. IMHO, The 351C is the best Ford engine ever built. A 2V headed version for street/strip use. And 4V for your road/drag race app's. I had one in my 73 Torino a few years ago, And I just HAD to have one in our 65 Galaxie! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Yuppers, But they are not much better (if at all) then your run of the mill US spec 2V head (Up to 1974). All they are good for is a compression pump without tearing down the engine. 1974 was the first year Im aware of that Ford used cats on cars. In factory trim, The 351W was never built as well as a 351C. IMHO, The 351C is the best Ford engine ever built. A 2V headed version for street/strip use. And 4V for your road/drag race app's. I had one in my 73 Torino a few years ago, And I just HAD to have one in our 65 Galaxie! :happy feet: I raced in a class that mandated 2V heads and flat top pistons. I used the Aussie heads. I know they didn't flow anymore. I agree that the cleaveland style motors were some of Fords absolute best and IMHO better by far than chebies 350's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 It only took about a year to retool for Duratec 35 production and get it ramped up. Where did you ever hear that ! The Mod 35 took much longer than a year to design and tool. I know the guy who design the block machine line and he worked on that for about 4 or 5 years. Anyone who thinks there are any similarities between the Mod 35 and the (still in production) Mod 30 has never looked under the valve covers or even at the external coolant connections (Mod 30 is for East/West only; Mod 35 can go North/South if required). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Anyone who thinks there are any similarities between the Mod 35 and the (still in production) Mod 30 has never looked under the valve covers or even at the external coolant connections (Mod 30 is for East/West only; Mod 35 can go North/South if required). What about the D30s that were in the Lincoln LS and Jag S-type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) i have to agree with pioneer on this one, all i want is for ford to make this engine, i do not care what it is called, but i would like it to be a BOSS or CAMMER but i just want it produced look everybody is raving about the 5.7L in the new Tundra that is making 380 HP i think, but it has no name, probably does but nothing well known by us ok i just found out what its called..."iForce"...wepty do....who cares what they name it, i care about the numbers and reliability Edited April 14, 2007 by Ford-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 What about the D30s that were in the Lincoln LS and Jag S-type? The Mod 35 and the Lincoln/Jag 3.0L V6 are both DAMB. IIRC, the Lincoln/Jag V6 ran the water pump off of the back of the left cylinder (same as Duratec 25 and 30). The Mod 35 has the water pump in the valley (I've been told you have to remove the entire front end accessory drive to replace the water pump. Ouch !) Also, Mod 35 uses a die cast aluminum block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yuppers, But they are not much better (if at all) then your run of the mill US spec 2V head (Up to 1974). All they are good for is a compression pump without tearing down the engine. 1974 was the first year Im aware of that Ford used cats on cars. In factory trim, The 351W was never built as well as a 351C. IMHO, The 351C is the best Ford engine ever built. A 2V headed version for street/strip use. And 4V for your road/drag race app's. I had one in my 73 Torino a few years ago, And I just HAD to have one in our 65 Galaxie! :happy feet: The closed chambers tolerate compression MUCH better than the open chamber American heads. The new aluminum Edelbrock Cleveland heads are based on the Aussies. My 351C in my 72 Torino had the open chamber 2V heads that had been ported. With 9.35:1 pistons, I had to double up the head gaskets to get it to run on 93 octane. With the Aussies, I have a 10.2 mechanical compression and it will take 36 degrees timing on 93 fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 hey i heard that a company is making the intake for the 6.2L Boss, they have the intake moldings and believe that ut will be OHC, but i got this from another forum so take it as you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 hey i heard that a company is making the intake for the 6.2L Boss, they have the intake moldings and believe that ut will be OHC, but i got this from another forum so take it as you like The new Boss (regardless of size) is OHC ! Last I knew only 1 cam per head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 The new Boss (regardless of size) is OHC ! Last I knew only 1 cam per head. so they are making it? i want a reg cab F-150 with a boss in it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 They're making, it's not going to be canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 They're making, it's not going to be canned. ok umm i just wet myself, ford didn't cancel something exciting, im a big ford fan but they always cancel stuff, if their making it then maybe it will spice things up in their bland performance section, put it in the mustang and F-150 and i will be happier, i believe this engine will have great potential :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Should be in the new F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 (edited) Should be in the new F-150. thank you god, i can give those damn hemi owners what they have been asking for, for the past like 4 years Edited April 29, 2007 by Ford-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIB Student Posted April 29, 2007 Share Posted April 29, 2007 Lol same here I can't wait for the new 150 to blow the doors off a Tundra!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 They're making, it's not going to be canned. I hope so, but honestly I am not too optimistic that the 'Boss' will ever see the light of day in anything other than a Super Duty pickup. If the proposed CAFE/greenhouse gas regulations are inacted, it will likely spell the end to most all RWD car platforms. Many on these boards though GM was stupid for halting all RWD car development, but the truth is that it was in reaction to the new regulations. It all depends on Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I hope so, but honestly I am not too optimistic that the 'Boss' will ever see the light of day in anything other than a Super Duty pickup. If the proposed CAFE/greenhouse gas regulations are inacted, it will likely spell the end to most all RWD car platforms. Many on these boards though GM was stupid for halting all RWD car development, but the truth is that it was in reaction to the new regulations. It all depends on Washington. but don't you think they built the boss to the new regulations, im pretty sure they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 but don't you think they built the boss to the new regulations, im pretty sure they did The new CAFE regulations are for fuel economy. Plus, the ONLY way you can reduce CO2 emissions (the supposed 'greenhouse gas') is to reduce the amount of fuel burned. So, if the fuel economy standards are increased 40% (one of the proposals) and/or the EPA regulates CO2 emissions, you may not see any passenger cars over 3L. Since the economy standards are an average of all light vehicles produced by a manufacturer, the domestic manufacturers will no doubt try to preserve as much of the full size light duty pickup market as they can (F-150's are Ford's most profitable vehicle). So, there is a good chance that V-8 RWD cars like the Mustang, Crown Vic., Camaro, 300C, Charger, and Magnum will be 'sacrificed' in order to build more light trucks. There's an article about this very scenerio in the new 'Motor Trend'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 No.. the Boss will be in the Mustang too. It will replace the mods eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 (edited) yeah, ford makes some stupid decisions, but killing off the mustang would probably kill my loyalty to them, i would still buy the F-150 but i would have lost a lot of respect, the mustang represents muscle cars, i really don't know another car that better represents it a 5.8L Boss i supposed to go in it soon and is CO2 really to blame?, i heard it hasn't changed in like 40+ years Edited May 1, 2007 by Ford-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIB Student Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 CO2 can also be reduced greatly by the exhaust system, and things other than just amount of fuel burned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 CO2 can also be reduced greatly by the exhaust system, and things other than just amount of fuel burned. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO CO2 cannot be reduced, it is a final by-product. Please consult basic chemistry text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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