The Taurus

[ZanatWork]

Not to stray back "on" topic, the lipstick putting on the pig of the Five Hundread Ford is doing will do as much to improve sales as GM did with the Venture>Uplander nose job did, or how about Ford's Windstar>Freestar, or even GM's Olds Aurora>Bonneville>Lucerne, that one's in the top ten now right? Oops, there's more negative honesty for ya, and we won't have any of that.

 

If the car were a pig, your post would make sense. As it's not, I suggest you get to Home Ec. before the bell rings.

 

The D3 cars lost more ground to the absolute LACK of representation they got from Ford's advertisers than from the Duratec or the bland styling. Those two sins are always getting mentioned, yet other examples of bland sedans with tepid performance have gone on to lead the market...think of the last Camry, for instance, or the original Avalon.

 

Ford FAILED the cars, pure and simple. I don't know that I've seen a Five Hundred ad in two years, or EVER seen a Montego ad. The Freestyle had that horrid divorcee ad that essentially ignored the vehicle.

 

So, as far as "lipsticking a pig"...good luck at Homecoming.

[Tico]

I like everything about the car except the trunk/tail lamps. Otherwise, it is a very nice large car. Different class then previous Tauri, so not sure how previous Taurus owners will take to it.

 

I own one of the "old" Tauri. I consider the 500 (New Taurus) much closer to my current car than the fusion. The fusion looks small when i look inside it. My current Taurus is certainly bigger than the fusion is it not?

[macattak1]

Speaking of avatars, mine should be a moving .gif file, but it just wouldn't upload right.

 

Thanks, BTW, for bothering to dispute nothing that I said choosing instead to throw out personal attacks...glad you got that TROLL definition squared away though. Guess I missed the whole Ford ownership is required to have an opinion. Now, not that it's relevant to this discussion or any other on here, I've directly responsible for several friends and family even giving Fords, that's MULTIPLE Fords, a chance in their regularly scheduled General Motors driveway, all Panthers BTW, and even looking at getting my parents into a 2007 Grand Marquis just today. I plan on driving Panthers as soon as my B-bodies have run their course, especially since they are no more, and a Panther is the closest suitable replacement.

 

Not to stray back "on" topic, the lipstick putting on the pig of the Five Hundread Ford is doing will do as much to improve sales as GM did with the Venture>Uplander nose job did, or how about Ford's Windstar>Freestar, or even GM's Olds Aurora>Bonneville>Lucerne, that one's in the top ten now right? Oops, there's more negative honesty for ya, and we won't have any of that.

 

Yea, I don't get that Lipstick Pig reference either. I think it out scores the Camry, Avalon, and Accord. But I would never call those cars Pigs. I can see that the 500 is selling just OK and nothing more. But I am also able to see that they have almost never advertised it anywhere. I say Almost because I am sure they they did here or there. But I never see it advertised on TV, Mag, Billbords, etc. Never. So, if they advertised it as well as they do the Edge or Fusion than I think it would sell much better. And the Taurus will, with like advertising, sell just as well as the Fusion and maybe better after a few years.

 

You don't have to own Ford to be logical and objective. You just have to show some logic and objectivity. Personally, I hate Chrysler. But their med duty trucks are actually pretty well built. If I knew that the transmission in the minivans was gold I would probably only look at them for a minivan if I was in the market. But the 2500 and 3500 trucks are not junk and pigs just because they are kind of ugly and have a poor transmission history.

[RichardJensen]

Lucerne & DTS are based on the 'G' body, heavily modified, which was also the basis for the last generations of the LeSabre, Park Avenue, and Bonneville. It was originally the Aurora & Riviera.

 

For a long time, I too was under the impression that the large FWD GMs were on their own platforms, but that changed in like 2000 or so. The former 'C' body (Olds 98 & Buick Park Ave, Deville) and 'H' body (Bonneville, 88, Lesabre) were axed and replaced by SWB & LWB versions of the G-body.

 

BTW, 'C' & 'H' refer to the VIN codes. I don't know what GM's letter codes were for those chassis.

[J-150]

There really wasn't anything wrong with the 500 other than "bland" styling (very subjective) and being underpowered. Styling will always be subjective so there's no way to tell how well the update will resonate with the general public until later in the year but there's no denying the powertrain issue has been addressed.

 

 

as you said, there were only ever 2 knocks against this car. Both have been addressed. But some people just can't stand the fact that Ford actually made a great car.

 

It's big.

It's safe.

It's comfortable.

It's reasonably priced.

It has a modern platform.

It has closed the quality gap with the Japanese.

It has a well known name.

It's made in the USA.

 

So, now with that being said, what is actually wrong with the Taurus?

[Deanh]

If the car were a pig, your post would make sense. As it's not, I suggest you get to Home Ec. before the bell rings.

 

The D3 cars lost more ground to the absolute LACK of representation they got from Ford's advertisers than from the Duratec or the bland styling. Those two sins are always getting mentioned, yet other examples of bland sedans with tepid performance have gone on to lead the market...think of the last Camry, for instance, or the original Avalon.

 

Ford FAILED the cars, pure and simple. I don't know that I've seen a Five Hundred ad in two years, or EVER seen a Montego ad. The Freestyle had that horrid divorcee ad that essentially ignored the vehicle.

 

So, as far as "lipsticking a pig"...good luck at Homecoming.

funny...sold a bunch..and guess what...not ONE complaint about lack of power..the people LIKE/ LOVE EM!

[armadamaster]

BTW, you think the tepid response to the Lucerne is more due to its ancient underpinnings than it is due to its FWD layout?

 

Wrong wheel drive doesn't help it, that's for sure. Buick needed a RWD flagship since the Roadmaster was killed. But I think the Lucerne's lukewarm response aside from the bland styling, is more due to the infamous GM name change game riding on basically same ol' FWD platform, I'm not a fan of all new platforms every five years like some auto industry ninnies, but constantly changing the nameplate of a vehicle does not build customer loyalty or awareness aside from the already prevalent deficiencies in the vehicle to begin. Granddad goes in looking for a Park Avenue and instead gets shoved into a Lucerne. Not good for sales, period.

 

If the car were a pig, your post would make sense. As it's not, I suggest you get to Home Ec. before the bell rings.

 

The D3 cars lost more ground to the absolute LACK of representation they got from Ford's advertisers than from the Duratec or the bland styling. Those two sins are always getting mentioned, yet other examples of bland sedans with tepid performance have gone on to lead the market...think of the last Camry, for instance, or the original Avalon.

 

Ford FAILED the cars, pure and simple. I don't know that I've seen a Five Hundred ad in two years, or EVER seen a Montego ad. The Freestyle had that horrid divorcee ad that essentially ignored the vehicle.

 

So, as far as "lipsticking a pig"...good luck at Homecoming.

I don't have dollar amounts, but I think Ford spent enough on Five Hundread advertising for it's "flaghsip sedan" and "year of the car" back in 2005 to take care of the last two years. In 2005, that was all the Ford commercials I saw for months, aside from the usual F-150 ads.

 

When I say lipsticking a pig, I am talking about styling, not name change. The name change to the Taurus nameplate at this point can only be an improvement. Heck, Crown Vics are outselling the Five Hundread for goodness' sake!

 

The Five Hundread/Taurus STYLING (or lack thereof) is the issue, I mean, oh wow, it's shifted from a bland, dated Audi look with 1992 Crown Vic and/or skirted Caprice look to the same greenhouse with a chromed Tempo-eque front end. Say what you want about the Chrysler LX cars, but for the most part, they have their own look.

 

The 500.Taurus change is also different from your other examples, because the D chassis is state-of-the-art Haldex AWD-capable from Job 1. With added 3.5 power and major re-engineering to the chassis ahead of the firewall, it is also much more of a re-fresh than the "Venture>Uplander nose job" or the "Windstar>Freestar" changes.

 

I looked at both cars, Five Hundread and Torea$$, at the 2007 Houston Auto Show, (didn't have much choice since Ford didn't bother bringing the Interceptor concept or even a current Crown Vic for that matter), and the styling changes are NOT an improvement. But hey, pretty isn't what sells the Camry and Accord right? And the 3.5 engine upgrade can only be an improvement over the previous 3.0.

 

Anyway, the "Aurora>Bonneville>Lucerne" is not accurate, as these are 3 different cars on 3 different chassis, and not a re-fresh of one chassis.

 

You got me on Aurora,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_%28FWD%29

 

but not so much on Bonneville and Lucerne:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_H_platform_%28FWD%29

Edited May 29, 2007 by Armada Master

[RichardJensen]

Quote Wikipedia at your own risk:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_G_platform_%28FWD%29

[NickF1011]

So, now with that being said, what is actually wrong with the Taurus?

 

They circled the problem.

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

Seriously though, probably the biggest thing holding the car back isn't the model name. It's the BRAND name. Sadly, people are just falling out of love with Ford.

[Deanh]

They circled the problem.

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

Seriously though, probably the biggest thing holding the car back isn't the model name. It's the BRAND name. Sadly, people are just falling out of love with Ford.

not quite sure that is accurate....car just didn't stand out in ANY ways from the competition...got lost in parking lots...and LOUSY advertising campaigns....I STILL beleive the biggest purveyor of potential buyers is lust generated by styling and/ or ALL OUT Performance...next up financing and bang for the buck along with others desiring out and out economy....but stylin definitely number 1..... .

Edited May 29, 2007 by Deanh

[StangBanger]

Having previously owned 6 Taurus's (tauri?), a 2005 Five Hundred and now a 2007 Fusion I feel fairly well qualified to speak on behalf of "the taurus customer base". My wife loved her Five Hundred and was very pleased with it. Granted it was somewhat bland in appearance, but a nice safe, comfortable car. Kind of a sleeper for sure. We had planned on getting another when our 2 yr lease was up, but she fell in love with the looks of the Fusion and wanted one just based on looks alone. We've had it for 6 months so far and everyday she is more pleased with it. She says "it fits her better". Now that Ford has "tweaked" the fivehundred/taurus it will be back on our shopping list when this lease is up (another 2 yr). She really likes the nose-job it got. Of course I like the 3.5 litre. If the Taurus is priced right, I think it will be one of the best values on the road. Decent looks, reasonable performance, safety and lots of room. They should move lots of em.

The biggest problem with the Five Hundred seemed to be marketing. My wife would tell her co-workers she drove a F/H and they would either ask "what is that?" or "why do you need a big truck?"

[jpd80]

not quite sure that is accurate....car just didn't stand out in ANY ways from the competition...got lost in parking lots...and LOUSY advertising campaigns....I STILL beleive the biggest purveyor of potential buyers is lust generated by styling and/ or ALL OUT Performance...next up financing and bang for the buck along with others desiring out and out economy....but stylin definitely number 1..... .

 

A car like this has to be kept in front in the public eye all the time or sales falter. That's where Ford really let the Fivehundred languish by not giving it strong and regular push advertising. With the new Taurus name, Ford has a second chance to relaunch their car and do it right. So let's see if they get it right this time.

[Deanh]

A car like this has to be kept in front in the public eye all the time or sales falter. That's where Ford really let the Fivehundred languish by not giving it strong and regular push advertising. With the new Taurus name, Ford has a second chance to relaunch their car and do it right. So let's see if they get it right this time.

and when in doubt HUGE rebates...sorry couldn't resist. I do hope it looks better in the flesh....Photo's aren't too inspiring...but that is my taste....

[NickF1011]

and when in doubt HUGE rebates...sorry couldn't resist. I do hope it looks better in the flesh....Photo's aren't too inspiring...but that is my taste....

 

The Impala and Avalon aren't exactly inspiring in appearance either.

[ZanatWork]

I don't have dollar amounts, but I think Ford spent enough on Five Hundread advertising for it's "flaghsip sedan" and "year of the car" back in 2005 to take care of the last two years. In 2005, that was all the Ford commercials I saw for months, aside from the usual F-150 ads.

 

When I say lipsticking a pig, I am talking about styling, not name change. The name change to the Taurus nameplate at this point can only be an improvement. Heck, Crown Vics are outselling the Five Hundread for goodness' sake!

 

The Five Hundread/Taurus STYLING (or lack thereof) is the issue, I mean, oh wow, it's shifted from a bland, dated Audi look with 1992 Crown Vic and/or skirted Caprice look to the same greenhouse with a chromed Tempo-eque front end. Say what you want about the Chrysler LX cars, but for the most part, they have their own look.

 

Yeah, in 2005 there were "year of the car ads"...but who'd seen a Five Hundred ad since? When clinics show that most people don't even know the car exists, the problem is representation. Those same clinics are why the Taurus name is being reborn.

 

I don't see the Tempo-esque nose at all. I don't claim it's a magnificent styling job, but it's better than what was...and styling in the sedan ranks is usually dull.

 

I didn't mention the LX cars, and with Chrysler's bottom-feeder quality...I'm not likely to.

 

As for the crown Vic sales...oh boy, low/no profit fleet sales! Yippee-damned-skip! Moving metal without making money is SO laudable!

 

*cough*

[Deanh]

The Impala and Avalon aren't exactly inspiring in appearance either.

ABSOLUTELY uninspiring....just feel ford perhaps reigned in another golden opportunity...the Taurus X has a better looking front end....still, I will wait till I actually see it

[jpd80]

and when in doubt HUGE rebates...sorry couldn't resist. I do hope it looks better in the flesh....Photo's aren't too inspiring...but that is my taste....

 

That's the problem on this thread, we have to look outside ourselves. My judgement is based on experiences in AUS with Falcons and travel to the US driving the F/H and Fusion so my opinion will be skewed and not representative of people who actually buy Taurus. I'm sure Ford has winners with Fusion and Taurus but I prefer the in between Falcon size whis is similar to the old Taurus. Reading the changes to the Taurus makes me want to hire one next year when I'm back on holidays. I'm sure Taurus will sell well but it needs something like a Challenge Ad campaign.

 

We have the same problem wih Falcon sales, if FoA don't regularly refresh it and push the advertising, they go off the boil pretty quick.

You can't be lousy with advertising in this segment.

[BlackHorse]

ABSOLUTELY uninspiring....just feel ford perhaps reigned in another golden opportunity...the Taurus X has a better looking front end....still, I will wait till I actually see it

 

Well look, when it comes to these kind of cars the industry basically goes one of two ways. Either its a 4 door sporty sedan that is adorned, or at least an attempt is made to adorn it with suave lines that evoke a rather sporty look and feel. The other option is to give it the conservative business look that evokes a rather refined feel. Both types appeal to certain types of people. Sometimes they both appeal to the same kind of person. But you can only drive one car at a time. lol

 

Additionally jpd80 is right, you have to advertise the damned thing. That point can't be made strongly enough. You have to play it's strengths and appealing highlights to the public, especially in the current market where so many brains are default set to go buy a Camry.

[mettech]

I say the T/S twins will have nothing higher than a 10% increase over the 500.

 

Most (not everyone) people that will buy the T/S twins are Ford supporters or bargain hunters. The new T/S twins will not draw a crowd from GM, Toyota or Honda. They may draw a few from Hyundai, VW, Nissan, and Mitsubishi.

 

Most people that buy a Honda are not looking for a "deal" or a bargain. They buy them because it's a Honda and so do their children.

[BlackHorse]

Most people that buy a Honda are not looking for a "deal" or a bargain. They buy them because it's a Honda and so do their children.

 

Wow, if I ever get that boring and narrow minded all of you guys have my full permission to knock the crap out of me. Except for you Richard, I think you might enjoy it too much.

[CarShark]

I'm a bit bullish on the new Taurus's chances, I must say. When it makes the rounds with car mags' Usual Suspects, I don't see it falling down, except maybe exterior- and interior-wise.

[macattak1]

Wow, if I ever get that boring and narrow minded all of you guys have my full permission to knock the crap out of me. Except for you Richard, I think you might enjoy it too much.

 

Actually, people do buy Hondas for the price. They are almost like Saturn. DX, LX, EX with few options but maybe leather or maybe a moon roof. They are plain Jane when it comes to options. And that is OK by many. Because of it, Hondas are very easy to price and buy. Very easy to know if one dealer from one end of town is yanking you price wise because the prices are generally the same from dealer to dealer, excluding markup.

 

Toyotas? I just don't have time to wade through their options and pricing. You can almost stack $15k in options on a Camry! How would I ever know a good price one dealer to the next unless I have a print out of every Toyota I have looked at and then compared their options. No thanks. I usually don't take my CPA with me when I go to shop cars. What a Pain! They have made comparison shopping nearly impossible.

 

Peace and Blessings

[TomServo92]

I'm a bit bullish on the new Taurus's chances, I must say.

 

I'm guessing that was an unintended pun...

[Roadrunner]

The biggest problem with the Five Hundred seemed to be marketing. My wife would tell her co-workers she drove a F/H and they would either ask "what is that?" or "why do you need a big truck?"

 

Heh - she wants to race the truck.

 

No but the marketing for the Five Hundred was relatively staid and made it sound like an upscale sedan but nothing that seemed to say "family car".

 

I have an idea that they probably said, " 'Kay - Fusion for families, Taurus for families, Five Hundred for older folks" but then Taurus went away, Fusion received more interest from twentysomethings than expected and they didn't rectify the situation.

[Roadrunner]

As for the crown Vic sales...oh boy, low/no profit fleet sales! Yippee-damned-skip!

 

Crown Vics sell for around $28k, and with the investment already made in the car, combined with domination in the taxi/police service fleet industries, I believe they are more profitable than assumed.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Roadrunner