Blue II Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 That isn't what I am suggesting. Mustang can be gotten with a big engine up to $50k (dealer "market rate adjustment" included. . ) A 300 SRT8 with 425hp can be gotten in the mid to upper 40s. Why shouldn't Lincoln offer something in the mid $50k that would produce the kind of power that Mustang and the 300 can? And I don't buy that Ford can't afford it. They have an inventory of engines and transmissions that could be adapted for the MKS as a high performer. If Chrysler and GM can do it surely Ford has the means to reach out to that demographic. I'm not complaining - I love the MKS concept. And I will take a wait-and-see on the twin turbo, although it sounds like what I would like. I'm just merely pointing out the obvious - Ford needs a performance car outside of the Mustang for those of us in our 40's - 60's that have outgrown the Mustang. It just seems that the MKS would be perfect for such a thing. It's a done deal, TWIN FORCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbmphil Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Blue, any news about the Powershift going into anything besides the upcoming Fiesta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Yes the MKS is built off the FWD S80 platform, AWD helps, yet where is the evidence it will be rear wheel biased? As far as I know all of Ford's AWD systems built off FWD only engage the rear wheels if the fronts lose traction. And it's all pointless anyways, the engine is still sideways, and most of the weight sits on the nose, and it's reported to be a pig.. Yes, because we all know they're going to use the same exact unit used in the Escape with it's 200HP in the MKS with it's base 320HP engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Yes, because we all know they're going to use the same exact unit used in the Escape with it's 200HP in the MKS with it's base 320HP engine. :hysterical: :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) I believe that really wealthy people can buy any car regardless of the economy at any time. But you can't make a volume business selling to them. And many smart really wealthy people buy expensive cars and keep them a long time. Most so called luxury cars are sold or leased to people with hi incomes....who can easily afford the debt when times are good. But since they have no real wealth, their buying habits are extremely sensitive to the economy. The phrase "big hat no cattle" comes to mind for most luxury car buyers. The Twin Force W/B the answer to my desires for this car. Edited August 20, 2007 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Yes the MKS is built off the FWD S80 platform, AWD helps, yet where is the evidence it will be rear wheel biased? As far as I know all of Ford's AWD systems built off FWD only engage the rear wheels if the fronts lose traction. And it's all pointless anyways, the engine is still sideways, and most of the weight sits on the nose, and it's reported to be a pig.. Ford has several full-time AWD systems, and the X-Type uses a RWD-biased setup in a FWD platform. Has for many years. Where have you been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 Ford has several full-time AWD systems, and the X-Type uses a RWD-biased setup in a FWD platform. Has for many years. Where have you been? besides, the Edge has a system that is BETTER than Acura's SH-AWD ... and ultimately makes the cars RWD biased when it counts - right before and during cornering .. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) Isn't the "SH-AWD" just a marketing name for the Pilot's AWD system? Edited August 20, 2007 by LincolnFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 Isn't the "SH-AWD" just a marketing name for the Pilot's AWD system? don't know but simply put it ANTICIPATES the need for rear traction and transfers power to the rear even before there is slippage - making the car corner more like full time AWD or RWD-biased RWD. Ford does the same thing, but all electronic, no actual clutches making the response faster - also Ford's system (IIRC) can transfer more power to the rear making the handling more sharply RWD biased than the SH-AWD. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERKURXR4Ti Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 don't know but simply put it ANTICIPATES the need for rear traction and transfers power to the rear even before there is slippage - making the car corner more like full time AWD or RWD-biased RWD. Ford does the same thing, but all electronic, no actual clutches making the response faster - also Ford's system (IIRC) can transfer more power to the rear making the handling more sharply RWD biased than the SH-AWD. Igor I know the SH-AWD system can transfer power from side to side in addition to front to back, can Ford's system do this? I know a few other companies have similar ones that can accomplish the same feat. The obvious advantage being that accelerating in a turn will send power to the outside rear wheel, reducing understeer and helping the car truely handle like a rwd vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 I know the SH-AWD system can transfer power from side to side in addition to front to back, can Ford's system do this? I know a few other companies have similar ones that can accomplish the same feat. The obvious advantage being that accelerating in a turn will send power to the outside rear wheel, reducing understeer and helping the car truely handle like a rwd vehicle. yes it can: http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/ check out the MKX - Drive - AWD section ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 yes it can:http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/ check out the MKX - Drive - AWD section ... Igor You guys could simply fact check you claims by visiting the Honda, Acura, Ford, and Lincoln websites to determine the similarities and differences between the AWD systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 You guys could simply fact check you claims by visiting the Honda, Acura, Ford, and Lincoln websites to determine the similarities and differences between the AWD systems. Better yet here is a link. For a demonstration video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaw8p__T62w...ted&search= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 Better yet here is a link. For a demonstration video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaw8p__T62w...ted&search= where is the FORD in that?:D the video takes forever to load .. who wins? Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I know the SH-AWD system can transfer power from side to side in addition to front to back, can Ford's system do this? I know a few other companies have similar ones that can accomplish the same feat. The obvious advantage being that accelerating in a turn will send power to the outside rear wheel, reducing understeer and helping the car truely handle like a rwd vehicle. helping the car truely handle like a rwd vehicle — only better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 You guys could simply fact check you claims by visiting the Honda, Acura, Ford, and Lincoln websites to determine the similarities and differences between the AWD systems. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 It's not happening because IIRC Getrag is now exclusive with Chrysler when it comes to their Dual Clutch boxes. Boy are you wrong ! Ford Getrag The head of Getrag US Engineering is a retired Ford person. He just hired another Ford retiree from the Research and Innovation Center (a.k.a. Sci Lab) 2 or 3 recent retires, working through a contract company, are (or were) over in Germany "bailing out Getrag" (their words not mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Then who is making the PowerShifts? Its a Getrag/Ford design with Luk clutches. The control mosule is designed by Siemens VDO which is currently being bough out by Continental I don't know which plant (or even on which continent) the actual tranny will be built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Is ZF doing the PowerShift transmission? NO ! There was a "bad marriage" and and even more expensive "divorce" between Ford and ZF over the CVT ! PowerShift is Getrag/Ford ! PowerShift is Getrag/Ford ! PowerShift is Getrag/Ford ! PowerShift is Getrag/Ford ! (actually I think PowerShift is ® Ford) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 As much as I hate to say this, I always expect Ford to come out with a new engine/powertrain 6 months to a year after the car launches....its par for the course... Actually this a new big part of The Way Forward Interiors, sheet metal, chassis and powertrains will be introduced independent of each other. You could see a new powertrain on a 2-3 year old vehicle (like the 4.4L diesel in 2011MY on the 2009MY F150) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Blue, any news about the Powershift going into anything besides the upcoming Fiesta? I have not heard of any other aplications so far. I have to find an excuse to visit my buddies in Livonia, including that sweet lady in charge of the software development ! Boy could I tell stories on how not to do computer/software development on this program ! If Mullaly ever found out, heads would roll and rightfully so ! Of course most of them are have retired ... except for 1 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Do you have any idea if the MKS will get the PowerShift anytime soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Well, it doesn't really need to be RWD biased, per se, but Ford's AWD is electronically controlled so that it ANTICIPATES if power needs to be transferred. Even in normal driving conditions, it results in a highly neutral handling experience. The AWD in Ford/Volvo cars and CUVs uses the Haldex center differential. Ford SUV/Trucks AWD/4x4 may use different central differential designs. Edited August 21, 2007 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Do you have any idea if the MKS will get the PowerShift anytime soon? Prior to Feb 2007, there was no plan to put PowerShift in anything except the B-car. I think there are some concerns about "smoothness" and clutch durability that would make it unacceptable for larger/heavier vehicles. A 6 speed PowerShift capable of handling 300+ HP would probably be larger and/or heavier than the current 6 speed automatics. I doubt it would have any measurable fuel economy benefits. (The PowerShift in the B-Car has some "unique" features :shades: that make it lighter than a traditional 5 or 6 speed automatic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 But Ford doesn't have an auto tranny that can handle the torque the 3.7 is going to put (I am not even going to bring up the TF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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