MKS will debut in LA, on sale by Summer

[Bagrah01]

The 2000 Lincoln LS had a 221 hp Duratec 3.0 in June of 1999. I think that predates the Mazda6 version considerably.

 

Yes your right.

[RichardJensen]

When is the last time you saw a 420HP, Aluminum chassis, coupe from Lincoln that could rip to 60 in under five seconds, and produce an exhaust note that sounds, to quote Jeremy Clarkson "like Tom Jones gargling a Nascar"?

About the last time that Lincoln deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar.

 

Lincoln has NEVER been in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar.

 

You can bring up the LS -NOW- because it's gone and Ford didn't spend a dime on it and you can howl over its carcass and weep and mourn and lament what was, but the reality is the LS was poorly fitted out on the inside, generally unreliable, and underpowered. Other than that it was f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c.

 

You never bought an LS and no matter what Ford did with it, you never would either. They could slap Lincoln badges on a 5-series and sell it for $25k and you still wouldn't buy it. People like you always find some excuse to be dissatisfied.

[Bagrah01]

About the last time that Lincoln deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar.

 

Lincoln has NEVER been in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar.

 

You can bring up the LS -NOW- because it's gone and Ford didn't spend a dime on it and you can howl over its carcass and weep and mourn and lament what was, but the reality is the LS was poorly fitted out on the inside, generally unreliable, and underpowered. Other than that it was f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c.

 

You never bought an LS and no matter what Ford did with it, you never would either. They could slap Lincoln badges on a 5-series and sell it for $25k and you still wouldn't buy it. People like you always find some excuse to be dissatisfied.

 

Yes your right about the car in retrospect, but to see the abomination the Navigator has become.

[Deanh]

Yes your right about the car in retrospect, but to see the abomination the Navigator has become.

100% agreement on that one...........Expedition design ( at least the Exterior ) is head and shoulders.......

[RichardJensen]

Yes your right about the car in retrospect, but to see the abomination the Navigator has become.

When was the Navigator not an abomination?

 

That is a vehicle for people who have all their taste in their mouth.

 

I mean, granted, it used to have a more understated design, but it still got horrible gas mileage, and it lost sales to the far more flamboyant Escalade--a vehicle that was distinguished from the Tahoe on the inside by nothing more than gauge faces, lots of glue-on wood, and softer springing for an even more gelatinous ride.

 

I am no fan of the new Navigator's looks, but if I had that kind of money to spend on a vehicle, I wouldn't under any circumstances buy such an incarnation of the words 'wretched excess' (or 'conspicuous consumption').

Edited August 17, 2007 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

Lincoln has NEVER been in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar.

 

No. The K-series Lincolns of the 30's and the MK II of the mid 50's were the equal of anything coming from BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar in those eras.

 

But it's been a long half-century since this was the case.

[fbmphil]

Tranny will be the dual clutch PowerShift ..

 

theoldwizard says "Not happenin"

[RichardJensen]

No. The K-series Lincolns of the 30's and the MK II of the mid 50's were the equal of anything coming from BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar in those eras.

 

But it's been a long half-century since this was the case.

MK II like the '61 Continental was the equal in style, but underneath both rode on hotchkiss axled examples of the '1949 forever' Detroit school of thought.

[Blue II]

Just going by a pattern here. Zephyr concept stunning, although details of the interior, very dull. Production model, well everyone knows my feeling on that. MKS concept lucklaster, dull, boring, derivative, not exciting. Production model, I can only imagine. I can almost guarantee it will not debut with a TwinForce turbo.

 

I can gaurantee it will not debut with TF. 6 mo later.

[suv_guy_19]

Business as usual. :rolleyes:

 

 

Same response as usual....I think its a beautiful car that will do well, with the twin force coming soon after launch...it will be great.

[Blue II]

Business as usual. :rolleyes:

 

NO, those facts have been established for quite some time. Nothing new.

[akirby]

theoldwizard says "Not happenin"

 

I think people saw the manumatic shifter and automatically assumed it was the powershift tranny. Not sure why - you can put a manumatic on almost any modern tranny since they're now computer controlled. The LS had it on the 5R55 back in 1999.

[fbmphil]

I think people saw the manumatic shifter and automatically assumed it was the powershift tranny. Not sure why - you can put a manumatic on almost any modern tranny since they're now computer controlled. The LS had it on the 5R55 back in 1999.

 

It's not happening because IIRC Getrag is now exclusive with Chrysler when it comes to their Dual Clutch boxes.

[LincolnFan]

It's not happening because IIRC Getrag is now exclusive with Chrysler when it comes to their Dual Clutch boxes.

 

Then who is making the PowerShifts?

[TomServo92]

I think people saw the manumatic shifter and automatically assumed it was the powershift tranny. Not sure why - you can put a manumatic on almost any modern tranny since they're now computer controlled. The LS had it on the 5R55 back in 1999.

 

Our '02 LS V8 doesn't have it. Was it dropped by '02?

[silvrsvt]

NO, those facts have been established for quite some time. Nothing new.

 

 

As much as I hate to say this, I always expect Ford to come out with a new engine/powertrain 6 months to a year after the car launches....its par for the course...

[Alexander Drummond]

Is ZF doing the PowerShift transmission?

[fbmphil]

Then who is making the PowerShifts?

It could be Borg Warner. The VW exclusivity license should be up by the 09 model year, since the M3 and Evo X are getting dual clutch trannies.

[Alexander Drummond]

Looks like it is Gertrag.

 

Ford of Europe Puts Dual Clutch Transmissions Into High Gear

By: Mike Thomas | Ford Communications Network

 

DEARBORN, Feb. 13, 2006 -- While it may sound like a contradiction in terms, the auto industry is witnessing the birth of the automated manual transmission.

 

At last year's Frankfurt International Motor Show, Ford of Europe and its 50/50 joint venture transmission manufacturer, GETRAG-Ford, demonstrated the innovative Powershift System, a six-speed dual clutch transmission.

 

"Interest in dual clutch transmissions is primarily a European phenomenon," said Michl Koch, director of technical communications, Ford of Europe. "In North America, automatic hydraulic clutch systems make up the dominant share of the market. They may seem a brilliant element in vehicle engineering, as they operate themselves without use of a third pedal, however they result in higher fuel consumption when compared to a manual transmission."

 

According to Koch, the GETRAG-Ford Powershift System promises fuel savings of a solid rate of around 10 percent over an automatic transmission; in other words, the same as a manual transmission.

[NickF1011]

As much as I hate to say this, I always expect Ford to come out with a new engine/powertrain 6 months to a year after the car launches....its par for the course...

 

That's par for the course for MOST automakers. Even when things are READY at launch a lot of automakers choose to launch high-demand options after the initial launch. Why? Because they want to get the base model cars out there and stock up dealers, get some on the roads, and then when demand for the base models starts to trickle down a little, there's a fresh new option waiting in the wings to inspire interest again.

 

This whole concept of delayed option launches has served the Mustang just fine for over 40 years.

[akirby]

Our '02 LS V8 doesn't have it. Was it dropped by '02?

 

It was never dropped. It was optional and only on the sport package. 00-02 had optional sport packages on both the V6 and V8 models. 03-06 it was only available on the V8.

[TStag]

Jaguar can be mentioned in the same sentence as Cadillac, BMW and Mercedes? Bullcrap.

 

Yes I agree we think Cadillacs are rubbish in Europe too. The car mags are full of adverts trying to give them away. Never has a car maker been so desperate.

[Ralph Greene]

Why does it need over 300 HP with decent Tq and nice efficient automatic? The new BMW 528 is still 3.0 L, 230 HP, 6 speed auto, and still does 0-60 in a good time. And owners love it. And it drives so nice for street use. It also still weighs about 3500 lbs. How about the E series Mercedes? It's a sweet driving car with a 3.5 L engine.

 

I confounds me why some of you think a car needs a lot of HP to be a nice driving all around balanced car. You could give it 500 HP and some of you would think it's not enough.

 

There are plenty of crude hi HP monsters already available....in a lighter package....if that is what you want. You want muscle, buy a Mustang.

 

I like performance cars, like most of you, but a nice smooth driving refined sedan with 300 or so HP getting decent all around fuel milage would suit me fine....and be right for the times I think. This is going to be a nice car.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Ralph Greene

[LincolnFan]

Yes I agree we think Cadillacs are rubbish in Europe too. The car mags are full of adverts trying to give them away. Never has a car maker been so desperate.

 

That's exactly why GM should withdraw from Europe for a decade and a half, make amazing products like the upcoming CTS, and then watch the Europeans beg for Cadillac.

 

That's the only to make Caddy successful, you don't go throwing cars at people and expect them to bow to it's greatness.

[Edstock]

MK II like the '61 Continental was the equal in style, but underneath both rode on hotchkiss axled examples of the '1949 forever' Detroit school of thought.

 

Well, the "low-pivot" swing axle used by Mercedes wasn't much better, and even Rolls was using a SRA, until the push-rod V-8 with the GM automatic transmission of the mid-60's replaced their old straight-6 sled. The point is, up to 50 years ago, the Lincoln really could hold its own to any others — but 50 years of stagnation may be irreversible. Time will tell.