Mustang Competition

[suv_guy_19]

Here's your chance Blackhorse, lol. I'll put one out there....350Z...another, RX-8

Edited August 27, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[ANTAUS]

Oh this is going to get complex.

 

I think most would agree that the most direct competitor would be a supposed "Camaro", that supposedly is coming, but never comes. For years, the "pony wars" were between them. Although, someone could say "well, what about the GTO?" Although it costs more, and is no longer around.

 

Some will argue that it's based in price...As in, someone who's looking for a "Sports Coupe around $22K", it's not that uncommon they will probably cross shop with even some Accord Coupes...these will usually be the ones who just care for 2 doors, something sporty, and don't care about too much performance. Which is why the Mustang V6 was called the "secretary special".

 

Some others who care more about performance, who are more avid enthusiasts, will probably throw RX-8, and 350Z into the equation. They probably care more about raw numbers, and RWD. To that benefit they might lean a bit more for the Mustang because of it's available V8, and overkill GT500.

 

But then that brings us to another questions..."Does the Mustang GT500, compete with the Corvette, or is it still considered a rival to other $25-30K vehicles such as the 350X and RX8.?"

 

Personally, I think most will go with whats available in their price range. They won't compare a Mustang GT, against a Civic Si because they are different in every possible way. One is FWD, the other RWD... One has 4 cylinders the other has double the size and then some. Usually those comparing the Civic Si, will throw in the Mazdapseed3, and some ugly Subaru thingy. IN that case I see they are trying to compare FWD platform based vehicles, or a certain price class.

 

So in the end of the day, it all boils down to how someone feels about the segment...

 

Nostalgic= The ones who traditionally remember Pony Wars with Camaro/Firebirds.

Price Conscience= Those who care more about whats available in their price range.

Enthusiast= What offers the best numbers and bang for the buck.

Secretarys= The one that just wanted something sporty with 2 doors.

 

The advantage the Mustang is, is that it can be many things, to many people...Look above and you will see it can fall into and all of those buyers, and thats probably the secret why it's also the best selling 2 door as well...

[jpd80]

Gee if Falcon and Mustang eventually share a platform, I know a country that will fall in love with the 'Stang very easily.

[DearbornDerek]

Gee if Falcon and Mustang eventually share a platform, I know a country that will fall in love with the 'Stang very easily.

 

yeah, but they have to make it look like this

[BlackHorse]

LOL, Oh suv guy, you are indeed a man of your word, or so it would seem. Having only text messages to deal with one makes it difficult to gauge, but you seem like the kind of man that won't run form anything. Irish? Scottish? Nevermind.

 

 

Ok, first we have to look at this from the perspective of reality. What is competition? In this case I assume we are looking at competition for the Mustang from the point of view of "people buy the mustang as opposed to some other car they considered at the same time" or the other way around depending on which car they bought. Maybe they looked at the mustang but decided on something else instead. In that regard my friend, any and every car that a potential customer looks at, is competition. The mustang then is competing for purchasing dollars and in that arena all bets are off, any car is competition so long as the customer considers purchasing not only the Mustang but also whatever other cars are on his or her list.

 

The fatal flaw that you make, and you're not alone in this because almost everyone does, is that you want to break said competition down into little definable parametes. Unfortunately the real world does not work that way. You mentioned the 350Z and the RX8 and I know exacty what you mean and you are both right and wrong at the same time. Yes the mustang is like both of these cars in that it is a front engine, rear drive sports coupe with sporty body styling and it is performance driving oriented. Ok, that makes perfect sense to me too. Still others around here want to break it down even further and say that it doesn't count as competiton unless it is V8 powered. Stupid. Just flat out ignorant. Not you, but the notion that it has to be a V8.

 

In this sense, the Mustang is competing to be purchased. It's not competing on a drag track, or a race track or even a street race. It is competing to be purchased off the lot at some Ford dealer. Do not confuse the class of the car with competion, they are entirely different. A man might set out to buy a sporty car in the let's say 20 to 30 thousand dollar range. Along the way he might look at not only the Mustang but also the Eclipse, Sky, Solstice, Tiburon, RX8, 350Z, Altima Coupe, Accord Coupe, GTI, Speed 3, WRX STi, Civic Si, Miata, G6 GTP coupe, Cooper S, Cobalt SS, and probably a number of other cars he might consider that aren't even 2 door like the new Lancer or the afore mentioned Speed 3 and GTI. In the mind of the customer he often doesn't limit him or herself to "It's gotta be a front engine V8 power house that's rear wheel drive or it's not the same!" That's horseshit! You hear that all the time around here when this topic of Mustang comes up but it really is not the case. People don't buy cars that way man. You know they don't. It's a fantasy.

 

When someone sets out to buy a car, in this case lets say a sporty type car, there are many things they consider. Obviously, how fast is it. But they also look at, how well does it handle? What kind of mileage does it get? How is the everday ride? The quality of the interior? The quality of the car overall? Features and options? The list goes on and on. You can't simply say the mustang has no competion just because it is the only front engine, rear drive V8 sports coupe on the market below 30 grand. I promise you, just as sure as the sun is coming up in the morning, people don't think that way when they start shopping.

 

Now, if you want to talk about competion from the perspective of "How does the mustang stack up performance wise against other cars in it's price range?" That is an entirely different school of thought. You let me know.

[2005GTP]

Nothing touches a Mustang. I pick up my GT this Thursday.

 

It is by far the best bang for the buck in terms of performance, styling and prestige. The Mustang, as compared to the Camaro or Challenger for that matter carries with it recognition to the likes of Micheal Jordan or Muhammed Ali. Everyone seems to know what a Mustang is.

 

Many people may know a Camaro but few people, other than car enthusiasts, will know a Challenger. The 350Z or RX-8 will only be known by car enthusiasts. The average person can look at those cars and say, "nice car", but when they look at the current Mustangs, you get thumbs up and every other possible compliment. It carries a certain status and prestige that isn't defined by HP numbers or lap times.

 

It certainly has a cult like status.

[BlackHorse]

Nothing touches a Mustang. I pick up my GT this Thursday.

 

It is by far the best bang for the buck in terms of performance, styling and prestige. The Mustang, as compared to the Camaro or Challenger for that matter carries with it recognition to the likes of Micheal Jordan or Muhammed Ali. Everyone seems to know what a Mustang is.

 

Many people may know a Camaro but few people, other than car enthusiasts, will know a Challenger. The 350Z or RX-8 will only be known by car enthusiasts. The average person can look at those cars and say, "nice car", but when they look at the current Mustangs, you get thumbs up and every other possible compliment. It carries a certain status and prestige that isn't defined by HP numbers or lap times.

 

It certainly has a cult like status.

 

Help me Jesus I don't even know where to start with this. First of all, this notion that everybody knows what a mustang is but only a limited amount of people will recognize an RX8 is nonsense. Don't even try to fool yourself into that line of thought. I understand you are getting your GT in a couple days and you are all excited about that, but don't blow sunshine up your own ass for the cars sake ok buddy?

 

Second,

 

It carries a certain status and prestige that isn't defined by HP numbers or lap times.

 

You bought a Mustang for status and prestige? LMAO

 

 

 

[BlackHorse]

 

 

 

[sranger]

Well,

 

When I was shopping for a sporty car in 2004-2005, I looked at: 350z, RX-8, Mustang GT, Porsche Boxster, GTO, Corvette, Dodge and the Dodge Charger. I can't stand FWD cars period and will never consider any of them sporty...

 

I chose the Mustang because it was realitively cheap and I could easly get aftermarket parts to get it's performance where I wanted it. I now have a good handling 500+hp rear wheel drive car that is fun to drive and easy to live with... The corvette was a very close second choice...

 

After all of my modifications, ( Saleen S/C, Exhaust, GT 500 Fuel Pump, Custom painted Stripes, Custom Wheels/tires ) I could have bought a C6 vette. Of course, my Mustang is quicker than all but the new Z06 vette and I believe looks more distinctive...

 

So yes, I think many people cross shop the vette and the Mustang...

 

If all of the new cars were out, I would probably go for the Challenger right now... I love the way it looks...

 

I also like the new Porsche Cayman... I would love to get one of those and add a twin turbo setup....

[ANTAUS]

I asked the 70 year old lady neighbor next door, if she knew what the car "RX-8", was.. she had no clue. Then I asked "What about a 350Z", she didn't know. I asked her if she knew what the Mustang was, she certainly knew what I was talking about... And she pointed one out when one passed by as we were on the front lawn.

 

She has a Camry herself though, she certainly knows what that and the Avalon are.... Eeekkk

[BlackHorse]

I asked the 70 year old lady neighbor next door, if she knew what the car "RX-8", was.. she had no clue. Then I asked "What about a 350Z", she didn't know. I asked her if she knew what the Mustang was, she certainly knew what I was talking about... And she pointed one out when one passed by as we were on the front lawn.

 

She has a Camry herself though, she certainly knows what that and the Avalon are.... Eeekkk

 

Well that settles it. You asked a 70 year old woman. Why that's the prefect sampling of a complete cross section of the American culture. Isn't it? NOT!!!!!! LOL, Really ANTAUS, a 70 year old gal is your proof of the recognition of Mustangs. Could it possibly have something to do with the fact that her alzheimers allows her to remember nothing after 40 years ago when the Mustang was new?

 

Also quite frankly I gotta call bullshit on this whole post. We all know damn well you didn't ask your 70 year old neighbor if she new what an RX8 and a 350Z are. How convenient.

 

PS, Just think 2005GTP, you'll have instant status and prestige with the 70 year old woman crowd. LMAO.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

Edited August 27, 2007 by BlackHorse

[White99GT]

Well that settles it. You asked a 70 year old woman. Why that's the prefect sampling of a complete cross section of the American culture. Isn't it? NOT!!!!!! LOL, Really ANTAUS, a 70 year old gal is your proof of the recognition of Mustangs. Could it possibly have something to do with the fact that her alzheimers allows her to remember nothing after 40 years ago when the Mustang was new?

 

Also quite frankly I gotta call bullshit on this whole post. We all know damn well you didn't ask your 70 year old neighbor if she new what an RX8 and a 350Z are. How convenient.

 

PS, Just think 2005GTP, you'll have instant status and prestige with the 70 year old woman crowd. LMAO.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

Mustang is one of the most widely known and recognized nameplates in automotive history, RX-8 and 350 Z are not. That is a fact. You would be hard pressed to find ANY English-speaking American who doesn't know what a Mustang is, what one looks like or who produces it. There are many Americans who do not know what an RX-8, 350 Z or Challenger is.

[BlackHorse]

Mustang is one of the most widely known and recognized nameplates in automotive history, RX-8 and 350 Z are not. That is a fact. You would be hard pressed to find ANY English-speaking American who doesn't know what a Mustang is, what one looks like or who produces it. There are many Americans who do not know what an RX-8, 350 Z or Challenger is.

 

All of which has nothing to do with anything. Is a Mustang more widely known then an RX8? Maybe in some remote small town that doesn't even have a Mazda dealer. Even if it does, so what. What does it matter? Is that why you buy car? Because more people will recognize it? If so you have some self confidence issues I guess. The fact of the matter is there are no scientific studies to verify that more people know what a Mustang is then know what an RX8 is, so all of this is just speculation. We don't really know if its true or to what degree it's true. I would submit that "many" Americans who are in the market for a Mustang GT also know what an RX8 is.

[Arniect]

The truth is at this time there is no Mustang Competition.

 

There is a reason the catagory is called Pony cars. and its not because of RX what evers or Camaro's etc.

 

When the Camaro makes its return Mustang will have a competitor. Until GM gives up again. Forget the Dodge, its way to big to be a pony car. Call it a Road Runner, its a muscle car, not a pony car.

 

As far the 70 year old lady knowing what a Mustang is, that is 100% true. Everyone knows what a Mustang is, even old ladies.

 

Mustang in an Icon and Ford needs to treat it as such.

 

When my son bought his 06 GT he did not consider anything else. the only thing he thought about was what color to buy.

[White99GT]

All of which has nothing to do with anything. Is a Mustang more widely known then an RX8? Maybe in some remote small town that doesn't even have a Mazda dealer. Even if it does, so what. What does it matter? Is that why you buy car? Because more people will recognize it? If so you have some self confidence issues I guess. The fact of the matter is there are no scientific studies to verify that more people know what a Mustang is then know what an RX8 is, so all of this is just speculation. We don't really know if its true or to what degree it's true. I would submit that "many" Americans who are in the market for a Mustang GT also know what an RX8 is.

 

BlackHorse, do you really need a scientific study to prove that the Mustang is a far more recognizable nameplate than RX8? Go to a classic cruise-in, a gathering of car enthusiasts and every single person there will know what a Mustang is, some there will have no clue what an RX8 is or who makes it.

 

Why don't you do a little survey on on your own? Just ask a few random people who manufactures the RX8 and see the responses you get. Grab a picture of an RX8, photoshop the badges off of it and ask random people to identify it. Now do the same with a Mustang. The RX8 isn't even the Mustang's brand recognition stratosphere.

 

As for why it matters, if brand equity didn't matter Ford wouldn't have bothered renaming the Five Hundred the Taurus and Toyota would have changed the Corolla nameplate on every refresh. You are kidding yourself if you don't think name recognition matters.

[BlackHorse]

The truth is at this time there is no Mustang Competition.

 

There is a reason the catagory is called Pony cars. and its not because of RX what evers or Camaro's etc.

 

When the Camaro makes its return Mustang will have a competitor. Until GM gives up again. Forget the Dodge, its way to big to be a pony car. Call it a Road Runner, its a muscle car, not a pony car.

 

As far the 70 year old lady knowing what a Mustang is, that is 100% true. Everyone knows what a Mustang is, even old ladies.

 

Mustang in an Icon and Ford needs to treat it as such.

 

When my son bought his 06 GT he did not consider anything else. the only thing he thought about was what color to buy.

 

Now be sure to read this guy's post Suv-guy. This is the kind of simple point of view I was talking about who confuses competing for purchasing dollars with competing on the race track. The two have nothing to do with one another and any attempt to make it so is a feeble attempt to fit a round world into a square hole. This guy is trapped in the dogma and not living in the reality of the market place. Sorry arnicet, just calling it like it is buddy.

[BlackHorse]

BlackHorse, do you really need a scientific study to prove that the Mustang is a far more recognizable nameplate than RX8? Go to a classic cruise-in, a gathering of car enthusiasts and every single person there will know what a Mustang is, some there will have no clue what an RX8 is or who makes it.

 

Why don't you do a little survey on on your own? Just ask a few random people who manufactures the RX8 and see the responses you get. Grab a picture of an RX8, photoshop the badges off of it and ask random people to identify it. Now do the same with a Mustang. The RX8 isn't even the Mustang's brand recognition stratosphere.

 

As for why it matters, if brand equity didn't matter Ford wouldn't have bothered renaming the Five Hundred the Taurus and Toyota would have changed the Corolla nameplate on every refresh. You are kidding yourself if you don't think name recognition matters.

 

No I don't need some survey white99. You and I both know that it is true. More people have heard of Mustang then have heard of RX8. I don't deny that. But, keep in mind that it's also very likely true that most people who are seriously in the market for 30 grand Mustang GT almost surely know what an RX8 is. Those that don't are very much the exception and not the rule and once again with that around here.

 

If I was at a cruise in with a bunch of car enthusiasts and there was some jerk off there that called himself a car guy and didn't know what an RX8 is, he needs to have his ass kicked for even showing up. That's not a car guy.

 

Finally, name recognition may matter to you, and it may be a big deal to some marketing exec who thinks customers can all be classified and categorized, but it doesn't matter to me at all. Maybe I'm the exception and not the rule in that regard. I just happen to think that if you buy a car just because you've heard the name Mustang before that you have to be shallow as a mud puddle.

[ANTAUS]

Well I'm not able to read Blackhorses post cause he's been on ignore for weeks, but in reference to..

 

"Also quite frankly I gotta call bullshit on this whole post. We all know damn well you didn't ask your 70 year old neighbor if she new what an RX8 and a 350Z are. How convenient."

 

From WhiteGT reply when he answered...

 

Whats wrong with asking my neighbor ? I mean, what would I really gain by creating such a senario. I'm just sharing information. It's convenient to just call out B.S. when it's convenient not to accept a fact. Not everyone in here is in a conspiracy to prove anyone wrong so much as others try to do so. My point was, and proved, that it doesn't matter the age group, some names are iconic.

[BlackHorse]

Well I'm not able to read Blackhorses post cause he's been on ignore for weeks, but in reference to..

 

"Also quite frankly I gotta call bullshit on this whole post. We all know damn well you didn't ask your 70 year old neighbor if she new what an RX8 and a 350Z are. How convenient."

 

From WhiteGT reply when he answered...

 

Whats wrong with asking my neighbor ? I mean, what would I really gain by creating such a senario. I'm just sharing information. It's convenient to just call out B.S. when it's convenient not to accept a fact. Not everyone in here is in a conspiracy to prove anyone wrong so much as others try to do so. My point was, and proved, that it doesn't matter the age group, some names are iconic.

 

Well gee Antaus, it's too bad you have me on iggy, that means you won't be able to see it when I tell you that since this thread was directed at me specifically from jump street and since you already had me on ignore maybe you should have just stayed the hell out of it. Also, since you can't read everything that is written, because once again you're too good to read my posts or whatever, then don't show up later and comment on a conversation that you only have half of.

[Edstock]

First of all, this notion that everybody knows what a mustang is but only a limited amount of people will recognize an RX8 is nonsense.

 

In your delusion, anything is possible. Give your gawddam head a shake. Southern Ontario, Canada is a major automotive market, and I see hundreds of current Mustangs every month, maybe thousands, and maybe 3 RX-8's. So have a tantrum if you want, but awareness of the RX-8 compared to the Mustang is miniscule, despite your abrasive bluster to the contrary.

[suv_guy_19]

Now be sure to read this guy's post Suv-guy. This is the kind of simple point of view I was talking about who confuses competing for purchasing dollars with competing on the race track. The two have nothing to do with one another and any attempt to make it so is a feeble attempt to fit a round world into a square hole. This guy is trapped in the dogma and not living in the reality of the market place. Sorry arnicet, just calling it like it is buddy.

 

 

I find it amazing how hard it is for people to admit that the Mustang has competition. It quite obviously does. There are other 2 door sports cars out there. They all compete with the Mustang. Things such as the Charger do as well. I find it really quite simple.

[NickF1011]

I find it amazing how hard it is for people to admit that the Mustang has competition. It quite obviously does. There are other 2 door sports cars out there. They all compete with the Mustang. Things such as the Charger do as well. I find it really quite simple.

 

Well when it boils right down to it, ALL vehicles compete with one another. Everything is marketed in an attempt to lure in buyers, period. Manufacturers don't care whether you NEED any of the utility in any of the vehicles they offer, but if they can make it appealing to you, then they've done their job. In one sense, even an F-450 competes with the Mustang. It really just depends how much you want to dissect the overall market.

[suv_guy_19]

Well when it boils right down to it, ALL vehicles compete with one another. Everything is marketed in an attempt to lure in buyers, period. Manufacturers don't care whether you NEED any of the utility in any of the vehicles they offer, but if they can make it appealing to you, then they've done their job. In one sense, even an F-450 competes with the Mustang. It really just depends how much you want to dissect the overall market.

 

Yes...But even in a much more direct sense, the mustang has competition.

[NickF1011]

Yes...But even in a much more direct sense, the mustang has competition.

 

Of course, there's another perspective if you use another definition of competition. If you're competing in a sense of animal-like instinct for survival, where whomever is the most successful will end up being the last one to survive -- then the Mustang has no competition. Has any other coupe ever come even CLOSE to its total sales since its debut? And how many other coupes have come and gone during the Mustang's lifespan? Dozens upon dozens -- and none have been able to knock the Mustang off its perch for long. I believe the Mustang is somewhere around 8 million total units sold now. The closest I know of were the old F-bodies that, I believe when combined, sold somewhere around 5 million.

 

I agree with you on this one suvguy...just stirrin the pot some more.

[BlackHorse]

Nick, Suv-guy, you guys have got it. Well done. Edstock, you're still living in the "everything is black and white" world. You don't get it, may never get, certainly never had it. Sorry buddy.

 

Well when it boils right down to it, ALL vehicles compete with one another. Everything is marketed in an attempt to lure in buyers, period.

 

In the nutshell everyone.

Edited August 28, 2007 by BlackHorse