mlhm5 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Ford has not posted a monthly gain since in unit auto sales since Oct. 2006 and despite all the pronouncements of management, I don't see a production vehicle in the two year horizion that is a serious challenge to the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord especially if by 2009-10 diesel engines are options in both as well as their SUVs. Hard to blame the union for management's inability to put a car on the market that is as attractive to the customer as the Honda Accord or the Toyota Camry. If I were Ford management, I would be extremely worried about Toyota's full size pick-up 60% sales gain over last year especially if they decide to put a ~3.0L diesel in the Tundra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 If I'm not mistaken, Toyota is pushing those Tundras out the door with incentives. And, on top of that, many of them have problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I beleive Ford is about to negotiate more blue collar terminations and further plant closures. Analysists are saying there's still to much production capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 When their efforts include the 2008 Escape and Focus...............I mean really..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 When their efforts include the 2008 Escape and Focus...............I mean really..................... Hmmm..Escape sales are up. Focus is yet to be seen....I predict up for that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I beleive Ford is about to negotiate more blue collar terminations and further plant closures.Analysists are saying there's still to much production capacity. This company cannot shrink its way to prosperity. Ford needs more vehicle offerings, not less. As soon as the contract is ratified and the stock goes up, I'm getting out. Even with more buy-downs things are not looking good for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 This company cannot shrink its way to prosperity. Ford needs more vehicle offerings, not less. As soon as the contract is ratified and the stock goes up, I'm getting out. Even with more buy-downs things are not looking good for Ford. Edge? Fiesta? Flex? Fusion? Taurus X? Expedition EL? All relatively new additions to the lineup that flat out didn't exist a few years ago. Their lineup IS expanding. Just the sales are not...which is okay for now. If it continues through next year, THEN there are going to be major issues. The only Ford vehicles to be cancelled in that period were the Thunderbird, Freestar, Excursion, and GT, hardly what I would call significant contributors to Ford's bottom line...with the exception of possibly the POTENTIAL of offering a minivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord especially if by 2009-10 diesel engines are options in both I call BS. The Camry will NOT have a diesel. PERIOD. Toyota is contracting to buy diesels for their trucks from Isuzu. Please get your facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) Hmmm..Escape sales are up. Focus is yet to be seen....I predict up for that as well. The segment is booming, and Ford's market share in the segment is falling, the Escape used to be the number one seller, and it got eclipsed by the Japanese, then Ford puts out the laughable "NEW 2008" Escape. If you some how think, that the effort of the 2008 Escape and Fcus, are the correct way to handle product, then you lose all credibility. The Escape and The Focus are prime examples of why ford is in their current predicament, and prime examples on why Ford has to bargain bin price their product to move it. How many people you think chose the Escape because they didn't have the credit and funds for much hotter Rav4 and CR-V? Ford's pathetic effort that they showed with significant players such as the Escape and Focus, prove how absolutely pathetic they were. It is funny how Fields was even disgusted at the Escape, The new management wouldn't have let those fly, but there are a bunch of people here with the blindfolds on that will defend the Ford Product that will lead them to bankruptcy. I just fail to see how anyone could possibly defend the Escape or Focus and not be considered mentally retarded, because if you care about Ford, you know the treating product like how Ford treated the Escape and Focus is going to put them out of business, you may want that, but I don't. Edited October 7, 2007 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Hard to blame the union for management's inability to put a car on the market that is as attractive to the customer as the Honda Accord or the Toyota Camry. To be fair and honest with you guys, I have to tell you. I was seriously considering a Honda Accord several months back and was eagerly awaiting the new one to come out as I found the concept photos to be pretty appealing. But!!!! lol I saw the production car photos and was somewhat dismayed and then I stopped by the dealer the other night because they have about 6 or 7 new Accords in and I was flat out unimpressed. It's damned ugly man!! I mean damned ugly!!! The front headlamp lenses bulge out from the sheetmetal like bug eyes and the rear tail lamps look like they chopped them off in mid-sentence. The overall lines along the side are pretty drab and just in general the body style is god awful ugly to me. I mean most of you guys here know me well enough to know I'm no fan boy of any one particular company. If it's a good car it just is regardless of who makes it. Also to be fair, the interior of the car was pretty nice and I really like how they styled the center stack. But damned if I'm going to drive around in something that ugly man. I don't know where they got that body style from but that designer needs to be take out to the wood shed (that's a southern colloquialism in case you were wondering Lincoln Fan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 To be fair and honest with you guys, I have to tell you. I was seriously considering a Honda Accord several months back and was eagerly awaiting the new one to come out as I found the concept photos to be pretty appealing. But!!!! lol I saw the production car photos and was somewhat dismayed and then I stopped by the dealer the other night because they have about 6 or 7 new Accords in and I was flat out unimpressed. It's damned ugly man!! I mean damned ugly!!! The front headlamp lenses bulge out from the sheetmetal like bug eyes and the rear tail lamps look like they chopped them off in mid-sentence. The overall lines along the side are pretty drab and just in general the body style is god awful ugly to me. I mean most of you guys here know me well enough to know I'm no fan boy of any one particular company. If it's a good car it just is regardless of who makes it. Also to be fair, the interior of the car was pretty nice and I really like how they styled the center stack. But damned if I'm going to drive around in something that ugly man. I don't know where they got that body style from but that designer needs to be take out to the wood shed (that's a southern colloquialism in case you were wondering Lincoln Fan). Name me one good looking Accord any year? The worst was the one from few years ago with smushed in back end. It literally looks like it was rear ended big time. Then they fixed the back end, but still a very bland vehicle. The Honda Dealers around here are a big turn off. They put another sticker back behind main sticker and it's always marked up another $2,000 because of pin striping, wheel locks, and other rip off items. They also have this arrogant attitude like you should be honored to be able to buy one of our value cars at $2,000 over list price. "It's a Honda, you know." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) Ford has not posted a monthly gain since in unit auto sales since Oct. 2006 and despite all the pronouncements of management, I don't see a production vehicle in the two year horizion that is a serious challenge to the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord especially if by 2009-10 diesel engines are options in both as well as their SUVs. Hard to blame the union for management's inability to put a car on the market that is as attractive to the customer as the Honda Accord or the Toyota Camry. If I were Ford management, I would be extremely worried about Toyota's full size pick-up 60% sales gain over last year especially if they decide to put a ~3.0L diesel in the Tundra. Uh, they already are building a car superior to the Cam-Cord in every aspect but sales volume, and if you have noticed the Fusion's sales are up. Last quarter they reported a profit while showing a reduction in losses in NA. You can not expect to show gains in sales volume and market share while intentionally reducing manufacturing capacity. Simply, if they build less of coarse they are going to sell less. The most important thing that they can do is reduce liabilities and regain sustainable profitability! Edited October 7, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I beleive Ford is about to negotiate more blue collar terminations and further plant closures.Analysists are saying there's still to much production capacity. I do not think that there is any way that the UAW will negotiate more plant closings and layoffs. That is why it is going to Chrysler. With an adequate supply of capital, the UAW will be able to get investment promises from Chrysler. They will then demand the same from Ford. _uck the analists. what this company needs is product. Duplicate the tooling of the Euro Focus and Mondeo, and build them here. The only way that Ford will turn this thing around is to have the most stylish vehichles on the road like they did from 1983-1998. Anything less is failure, and no amount of plant closings or layoffs will fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) I do not think that there is any way that the UAW will negotiate more plant closings and layoffs. That is why it is going to Chrysler. With an adequate supply of capital, the UAW will be able to get investment promises from Chrysler. They will then demand the same from Ford. _uck the analists. what this company needs is product. Duplicate the tooling of the Euro Focus and Mondeo, and build them here. The only way that Ford will turn this thing around is to have the most stylish vehichles on the road like they did from 1983-1998. Anything less is failure, and no amount of plant closings or layoffs will fix it. Agreed, it is the Jerry Maguire effect! "What people think but do not say" Your a good man Footballfan! Edited October 7, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 If I were Ford management, I would be extremely worried about Toyota's full size pick-up 60% sales gain over last year especially if they decide to put a ~3.0L diesel in the Tundra. Be careful of playing the numbers game like you are, an increase of 60% for the Tundra, would only be a 10-15% sales difference in the F-150 sales. The F-150 still sells 3-4 times the same amount trucks that Tundra does in a month, and Ford didn't meet the incentives on the hood of the other full-size truck manufactures out there last month either. Unit sales can't be correctly judged till the old Taurus sales are finally out of the system, which should be by December of this year and Ford has stated many times over that they want to keep a 13% market share (which has kept), since thats their baseline to be profitable after the restructuring and will grow it once its done restructuring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Ford has not posted a monthly gain since in unit auto sales since Oct. 2006 ....... And you won't be seeing any increase until we get beyond the effects of the "rental car" old Taurus which went out of production about a year ago. Most of this year's decrease is due to Ford's conscious effort to cut back on supplying cars to the rental market. It will be interesting to see how year-to-year sales compare once we get into calendar year 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 It's damned ugly man!! I mean damned ugly!!! I have seen a few new Accords on the road. Each time, I thought I was coming up to a Saturn "L" series with a bit more chrome until I saw the Honda badge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Retail share has been stable between 13 - 14% since October 2006 - for past 12 months ... Ford has been hoping for better - but there is no drama / horror story in the sales figures - they have one of the lowest incentives among the Big 6 , they are the most disciplined of domestics with regards to fleet sales - they are stabilizing the business - and now have about 11 months of disciplined overall sales numbers - starting November Ford will start reporting steady mild increases in sales year over year - no more big declines ... the old Taurus is off the books, and so is the fleeting of other models. Once new models and redesigns launch you will truly see ford be able to proclaim " Ford sales rise in July by 4% on the strength of new Fusion and Flex" .... unlike the current "Crossovers soar in September; overall sales decline" Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) Built Toyota "weak" Edited October 7, 2007 by wildosvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) Retail share has been stable between 13 - 14% since October 2006 - for past 12 months ... Ford has been hoping for better - but there is no drama / horror story in the sales figures - they have one of the lowest incentives among the Big 6 , they are the most disciplined of domestics with regards to fleet sales - they are stabilizing the business - and now have about 11 months of disciplined overall sales numbers - starting November Ford will start reporting steady mild increases in sales year over year - no more big declines ... the old Taurus is off the books, and so is the fleeting of other models. Once new models and redesigns launch you will truly see ford be able to proclaim " Ford sales rise in July by 4% on the strength of new Fusion and Flex" .... unlike the current "Crossovers soar in September; overall sales decline" Igor What I fail to understand is that Ford's retail Sales have been dropping 10-15% everymonth, while the overall market retail sales have only been dropping 2-3%, so how is Fords Retail market share stable? Also, you can say Ford has off and on the lowest incntives of the Big 3, but Toyota Honda and Nissan, have less incentives, unless you wish to pin point particular models, you must look at the company as a whole, and by doing that the Big 3 still have far more incentives than the japanese, even though the big 3 already bargain bin price their vehicles to begin with. Edited October 7, 2007 by DCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 What I fail to understand is that Ford's retail Sales have been dropping 10-15% everymonth, while the overall market retail sales have only been dropping 2-3%, so how is Fords Retail market share stable? You've got your facts wrong. This is expected to be the worst year since 1998 for car sales in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 What I fail to understand is that Ford's retail Sales have been dropping 10-15% everymonth, while the overall market retail sales have only been dropping 2-3%, so how is Fords Retail market share stable? Also, you can say Ford has off and on the lowest incntives of the Big 3, but Toyota Honda and Nissan, have less incentives, unless you wish to pin point particular models, you must look at the company as a whole, and by doing that the Big 3 still have far more incentives than the japanese, even though the big 3 already bargain bin price their vehicles to begin with. retail sales of MOST automakers have been down YTD .. they just makesure to hype up the increase the couple months it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 (edited) I fail to understand the relevance of last year's sales figures when Ford is deliberately downsizing its business. The figures would mean something if no changes occurred from year to year Sure, retail sales have decreased slightly but the biggest reduction is in daily rentals. I'm interested in seeing the Q3 results, cash on hand flowed out in January but has been growing since March with some sources unofficially stating September's cash at $40 billion, or just $6 billion shy of where Ford was when they raised the $23 billion of loans. It's a sneeky way of improving your busines without making a profit. Edited October 7, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Agreed, it is the Jerry Maguire effect! "What people think but do not say" Your a good man Footballfan! Thanks! Great minds think alike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 At the end of the day only 1 thing matters. Is Ford selling enough cars to stay in business? If they are then all the rest of this is semantic bullshit, isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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