Joe771476 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 A company called Carbon Motors is challenging the modified production cars and offering a purpose-built cruiser which will supposedly achieve 250,000 miles of service. No price is given so it's hard to know if the ends will justify the means. Go to www.carbonmotors.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 This writeup @ http://www.carbonmotors.com/anticip.htm kicks ass. It reflects on-the-job occurrences with an adrenaline-inducing blow-by-blow while highlighting features on the car. Just a shame it looks weird. Also, what's with the suicide doors? (Called "coach doors" in the writeup) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) Also -- the assembly is Metro Atlanta, Georgia USA I wonder if that's actually AAP? Couldn't be... I will contact them. Also, I guess the car originally had a different (and less ungainly) greenhouse: http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/carbon.htm Edited October 20, 2007 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 It also, I guess, was meant to be a wider range of production cars. Read up: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdzs...02/ai_ziff12727 In 2004, the Model E company, now Carbon Motors, wanted to be both the dealership and the manufacturer of the products, but it sounded like it was going to be a lot more than just a police car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 They cannot sell a vehicle like that for the same price as the Crown Victoria. If police departments really want cars like that, Ford would have done it years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) They cannot sell a vehicle like that for the same price as the Crown Victoria.If police departments really want cars like that, Ford would have done it years ago. You're an expert now on what police departments want? Yeah I didn't think so. Sit down while daddy talks son. I've said for years that a company should make a purpose built cruiser. Many Officers have said the same. As far as price goes, the website addressed it. Price Comparable to Retail Passenger Car Outfitted with Law Enforcement Equipment If they can achieve that they will be able to sell some of these. If the car turns out to be as durable and capable as they claim, they'll sell more. Until then your speculation is just the sweat breaking the brow in worry that Ford could lose the Crown Vic altogether because we all know the police package is the only thing keeping the line afloat. Edited October 20, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Robocop Returns. Those acceleration numbers look a little pathetic for the amount of power its supposed to make. With 300 horsepower and 420 lbs.-ft of torque...AND a 6 speed automatic, it can't muster any more than 6.5 0-60 or 14.5 in the quarter? Come on. Even a Hemi is swifter than that in all likelihood and a late model CVPI isn't that far off those numbers. The handling numbers are really on par with a CVPI or a Dodge Charger. The mileage is an improvement, but the durability could be an interesting proposal. My guess is that this company is going to try to market the car at a notably higher price on the premise that it will last a full 250,000 miles without the need for replacement. That sounds like a roll of the dice. Its crashworthiness sounds on par with the Crown Vic, too. Okay, who again will service these cars?? Smaller departments across the country won't because often dealerships that sell the cars do it for the police department. Is there supposed to be a network of service centers or are the garages on their own? I can't wait to hear who will be the first to long-term test this creature on the highway? Should be interesting, but I'll betcha it won't even scratch the surface in Ford's police fleet business. Chevy's Tahoe probably stands a greater chance of that or if Dodge can get more power out of its V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 These are all ex Ford guys. Bill Li is a good guy, but he's picked up all the Silicone Valley gibberish and slick web sites in terms of overselling new product concepts in the hunt for investment capital Now think about it, guys. Do you really think there is a business equation for an all new platform in an all new facility with an all new R&D facility to be sold at a price against Ford and Dodge products derived from a shared high volume platforms? Ha, ha, ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Had this turd on CVN a few weeks back, cops will never pay the $$$ it would cost for it. Especially while ANY other automaker offers ANY kind of police package vehicle. They're squeamish enough (understandably though) about W-Impalas and Tahoes. And are they going to add a trunk to this turd later, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 looks really weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 You're an expert now on what police departments want? Quite frankly for the type of work officers, they should all have dual cab F150s with a paddy wagon in the back for the unruley prisoners. Until then your speculation is just the sweat breaking the brow in worry that Ford could lose the Crown Vic altogether because we all know the police package is the only thing keeping the line afloat. There's no sweat on my brow old chum!!! I'm from Australia remember? You really need a holiday Blackie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Quite frankly for the type of work officers, they should all have dual cab F150s with a paddy wagon in the back for the unruley prisoners. There's no sweat on my brow old chum!!! I'm from Australia remember? You really need a holiday Blackie! A dual cab F150? Yeah, that's great until you have a vehicle pursuit, or if you are an officer in a metropolitan area like New York or Philidelphia. Oh and lets not forget the dramatic increase in the fuel and maintenance budget. Once you take a prisoner in custody you can't answer any calls until after you've booked said prisoner into the jail so a paddy wagon in the back of your patrol car is a huge waste of space. As you're in Australia you have no idea what the law enforcement needs of most departments here in the US are. So don't make comments about the cost of Crown Vics and what Ford would have done long ago as if you do know. I don't need a holiday as much as I don't need another internet expert on something he knows nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) ATLANTA, September 11, 2007 – Carbon Motors Corporation and Lotus Engineering jointly announced today that the two companies will collaborate on the development of the world’s first purpose-built law enforcement patrol vehicle. Terms of the deal were undisclosed. The first of its kind, this special purpose vehicle will provide a superior performing product with a much safer and more efficient operating environment for law enforcement officers, and offer a significantly lower total cost-of-ownership. A significant reduction in CO2 emissions is targeted in addition to a 30% - 50% fuel economy improvement. William Santana Li, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Carbon Motors, remarked, “We have been seeking a world-class high technology engineering alliance that would help us provide the best possible vehicle for our country’s First Responders -- we have found that in Lotus Engineering. We thank the team at Lotus for joining the cause to provide the over 800,000 women and men in uniform patrolling our homeland with the appropriate equipment to help keep our cities safe. This project is projected to create well over 10,000 new direct and indirect American jobs with a positive economic impact of over $3 billion. Lotus will be playing a key role in helping us to achieve our goals. “ Lotus offers globally a full suite of automotive engineering services. They are capable of taking a project from initial concept and product design, through development, testing and prototype build, and can also provide high quality production support. Having been engaged by the majority of the world’s top automakers and suppliers, Lotus Engineering has been involved in the development of a number of innovative products including the Aston Martin Vanquish, the Opel Speedster, as well as its own portfolio of vehicles which Lotus Cars sells globally under its own brand. If Lotus is involved, it may get off the ground but, will it be economically viable? The website claims this vehicle will sell for the same price as a Crown Victoria with police equipment. I guess all we can do is gauge its success or failure by orders from police departments. Edited October 20, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Sure, it will be the best police car of all time. Probably cost $80,000 a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyb82 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Now think about it, guys. Do you really think there is a business equation for an all new platform in an all new facility with an all new R&D facility to be sold at a price against Ford and Dodge products derived from a shared high volume platforms? Ha, ha, ha By shared, do you mean shared with taxis and livery companies a la the Ford Panther platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I like it.... Looks like a 300C and Charger morphed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 By shared, do you mean shared with taxis and livery companies a la the Ford Panther platform? Yes. The total police market is around 50k annually. I think the livery market (for Town Car and stretch sedans) is around 2k, and the taxi market is around 3-5k (but this will be under pressure if NY demands hybrids). Police have specific requirements for their vehicles, both patrol and interceptors. But the price is relatively low. When there is one player in the market (like CV used to be when Chevy bailed), you can make a lot of money. But when there are 2 players (like today's CV and Dodge), the profit goes down. If you derive these vehicles from a platform that is shared with retail customers, then the development cost is shared among a higher number of users. Developing an all-new platform with the kind of attributes that are listed on this site is a non-starter in my opinion. If they were to get, say, 40% of the cop car business (wishfull thinking), then that's only 20k annually. And the investment in the kind of dream facility they show on their web site would be around $1 billion. The variable cost of the vehicle's structure they are suggesting also would be prohibitively expensive. If this product were a retail car, I agree with a previous poster that a reasonable price to expect would be in the $60-70k range or even higher to make a profitable program. And service is a big issue. Most police departments service their own cars and they like to keep their cars standardized for speed/cost of repairs. Of course, wasn't the state of Georgia ready to give Kia almost $1 million per job in incentives for their plant there? Maybe that's what Bill Li and his troup are looking for. If Georgia does give them money, they should have their heads examined. The key question you have to ask yourself is, "would I invest money in this venture?" Not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 By shared, do you mean shared with taxis and livery companies a la the Ford Panther platform? I think what we're all forgetting is that this car comes with everything installed. What you pay is what you pay, whereas now, there is a great deal of equipment that you have to add on to car after purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Suicide doors cop car? ARREST ME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 They cannot sell a vehicle like that for the same price as the Crown Victoria.If police departments really want cars like that, Ford would have done it years ago. Not necessarily true. Ford got the majority of the taxi business after Checker disbanded. And Checkers were a heckuva lot better than the Crown Vics on many different levels. If they could produce this for $80,000 with everything already installed then they might have a shot at a portion of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Robocop Returns. Those acceleration numbers look a little pathetic for the amount of power its supposed to make. With 300 horsepower and 420 lbs.-ft of torque...AND a 6 speed automatic, it can't muster any more than 6.5 0-60 or 14.5 in the quarter? Come on. Even a Hemi is swifter than that in all likelihood and a late model CVPI isn't that far off those numbers. 0-60 in 6.5 seconds? That's the same as a V6 Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 You guys know that the engine is a diesel right? That explains the lame acceleration numbers. Diesels are made for dead/old people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 You guys know that the engine is a diesel right? That explains the lame acceleration numbers. Diesels are made for dead/old people. Lincoln, go get somebody to help you take your foot out of your mouth son. Diesel engines can be turned into flat out screamers with a powerchips setup. All they have to do is set this patrol car up with a mild version of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Lincoln, go get somebody to help you take your foot out of your mouth son. Diesel engines can be turned into flat out screamers with a powerchips setup. All they have to do is set this patrol car up with a mild version of one. Do you know whether that truck is street-legal or not? Diesel can be modded to hell, but by nature a gasoline engine will always preform better than it's diesel counterpart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Do you know whether that truck is street-legal or not? Diesel can be modded to hell, but by nature a gasoline engine will always preform better than it's diesel counterpart. Yeah, they're street legal. There are plenty of pickup around here with the powerchip modification. It just means you get really crappy mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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