Ford: Next Gen Focus to begin production in NA in 2010

[NLPRacing]

What? Why?

 

When was the last time YOU owned a hatchback? IIRC, you own an LS & and an ML.

 

Doesn't an ML have a hatchback?

[RichardJensen]

Doesn't an ML have a hatchback?

I'll answer that question with a question:

 

Do you consider SUVs and crossovers to be hatchbacks?

[Blueblood]

As Americans shift to smaller (and nicer) cars, hatches will become more popular as folks realize it is such a more rational layout than a sedan in a vehicle not quite the size of a Crown Vic. Though it would have been nice had Ford made this move 10 years ago, at least they are doing it now rather than waiting ANOTHER 4 years.

 

Next up; diesels!

 

They already are super popular, it's just that people are so retarded they don't realize that every mini-van, SUV, and crossover is a hatchback..

[suv_guy_19]

They already are super popular, it's just that people are so retarded they don't realize that every mini-van, SUV, and crossover is a hatchback..

 

Actually I would say they are more wagons than hatches.

[MKII]

Just call everything with a hatch a CUV or SUV.

Americans did not purchase Mazda6 wagons but they are purchasing CX-7.

Mazda should have called the 6 wagon a CX-6 :D

[jpd80]

Just call everything with a hatch a CUV or SUV.

Americans did not purchase Mazda6 wagons but they are purchasing CX-7.

Mazda should have called the 6 wagon a CX-6 :D

I'm just Imagining Ford NA with Kuga, their version of CX-7 & CX-9 as well as the Edge,

all of which are CD3 or as in the CX-7, close cousins.

Edited June 22, 2008 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

They already are super popular, it's just that people are so retarded they don't realize that every mini-van, SUV, and crossover is a hatchback..

 

People dont like the stigma that a hatchback/wagon has...hatchback=cheap car and wagon is well just a wagon, like a Minivan.

 

Its the same but different....

[MTP WORKER]

Wayne Assy .............I hope the Paint and body shops can handle running the extra hours considering managment is cutting away with the maintemance procedures there. the place is falling apart piece by piece. put a temp fix and run it!

Does anyone have any idea where the Next Gen Focus will be built?

[BORG]

I'll answer that question with a question:

 

Do you consider SUVs and crossovers to be hatchbacks?

 

I sure as hell wouldn't! You call my MKX a hatchback and I'll knock you into...well...I would kindly disagree .

 

I don't mind hatchbacks now that they are looking more like crossovers and less like truncated stations wagons. The Ford ZX5 was always a sharp looking hatchback. And for the first time in my life, I'm making car purchases based on the ability to stuff it with crap from Costco, Home Depot, and Bordines Therefore, CUVs with those spacious and tall cargo areas have become a necessity.

Edited June 22, 2008 by BORG

[LSFan00]

What? Why?

 

When was the last time YOU owned a hatchback? IIRC, you own an LS & and an ML.

 

Now, this is irony. As fuel prices have tripled lately and Americans (including myself) find smaller cars more attractive than before, we similarly look for utility out of the (newly small) vehicles we are buying. As you look for ways to maximize the value of a small car, a full hatch rather than a trunk is more practical. No, it's not usually prettier, but then again look at the Aveo 4-door sedan as a case study in a small car that is truly hideous as a 4-door sedan with a trunk.

 

Back to your point, and the irony, yes, I own an ML500 and an LS (V8) still. The ML is, truly, a deplorable vehicle (we all have our weaknesses, and I'm not proud to have caved in purchasing this hunk of junk). Will I be purchasing another V-8 sedan? Likely, no (NOTE: I love V-8's, but I don't trust expensive (battery) hybrids in Texas and if buying a V-6 I'd rather have a diesel). I don't think my purchases portend disaster for large American sedans and car makers, but neither do they preclude me from thinking about and making generalized predictions based on the rapidly changing vehicle tastes of Joe Blow American car buyer. Folks with 2 kids (and 2 dogs), like myself, simply need as much functionality as possible, at least from the family car, whichever vehicle that may be. And folks I know are trending to smaller vehicles for the first time I can remember. Small cars are more functional with hatches. But I'm just a quirky unpaid anonymous commentator on a message board.

 

The irony is that you at one point wholly dismissed my opinion as a 'non-stakeholder' Ford enthusiast, and argued that the different tastes of European vs. American consumers could never be reconciled at the sheet metal or vehicle classes/sizes, or for that matter ever produced together due to different head units etc. Now about 1.5 years on, you question my assertions about the Euro/global Focus which now, per this very thread, is being introduced here in 2010, as a hatch also, based on my ownership of an SUV and a Lincoln sedan. There are a lot of reasons to dismiss some of the opinions on this board, including, occasionally, those with a fetish for a particular model/year Ford product. I don't think I have such a fixation, but I'd be curious what forward-looking market analysis wouldn't conclude that Americans will be more receptive to hatchbacks in the future than in the past? Perhaps even enough to offer a model for that group of consumers? Are VW, Honda, Toyo, Mercedes, BMW, Mazda, Mini, and Ford all wrong? Or is it just that my car buying history in the past 5 years is a better predictor?

 

I'd hate to think that either personal animus is driving the dialog on this board, or that RJ has ever been wrong.

 

Oh, and the MKX is obviously a hatch, btw.

[Critic]

Europeans love hatchbacks.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Critic

[Blueblood]

People dont like the stigma that a hatchback/wagon has...hatchback=cheap car and wagon is well just a wagon, like a Minivan.

 

Its the same but different....

 

Evidence?

 

They sure like their expensive SUV, crossover, and mini-van hatchbacks!

 

The Flex hatch sure does look good!

[Blueblood]

I heard Ford cancelled the Focus, Fiesta, and Taurus to save money.

[rmc523]

I heard Ford cancelled the Focus, Fiesta, and Taurus to save money.

 

I heard that rumor too!

[Blueblood]

I heard that rumor too!

 

What's scary is that it seems to be the only thing they know how to do, and screw their most loyal customers, maybe they should sue some more Ford car clubs for using fords name too, that's always good for business.

[RichardJensen]

Now, this is irony. As fuel prices have tripled lately and Americans (including myself) find smaller cars more attractive than before, we similarly look for utility out of the (newly small) vehicles we are buying. As you look for ways to maximize the value of a small car, a full hatch rather than a trunk is more practical. No, it's not usually prettier, but then again look at the Aveo 4-door sedan as a case study in a small car that is truly hideous as a 4-door sedan with a trunk.

 

Back to your point, and the irony, yes, I own an ML500 and an LS (V8) still. The ML is, truly, a deplorable vehicle (we all have our weaknesses, and I'm not proud to have caved in purchasing this hunk of junk). Will I be purchasing another V-8 sedan? Likely, no (NOTE: I love V-8's, but I don't trust expensive (battery) hybrids in Texas and if buying a V-6 I'd rather have a diesel). I don't think my purchases portend disaster for large American sedans and car makers, but neither do they preclude me from thinking about and making generalized predictions based on the rapidly changing vehicle tastes of Joe Blow American car buyer. Folks with 2 kids (and 2 dogs), like myself, simply need as much functionality as possible, at least from the family car, whichever vehicle that may be. And folks I know are trending to smaller vehicles for the first time I can remember. Small cars are more functional with hatches. But I'm just a quirky unpaid anonymous commentator on a message board.

 

The irony is that you at one point wholly dismissed my opinion as a 'non-stakeholder' Ford enthusiast, and argued that the different tastes of European vs. American consumers could never be reconciled at the sheet metal or vehicle classes/sizes, or for that matter ever produced together due to different head units etc. Now about 1.5 years on, you question my assertions about the Euro/global Focus which now, per this very thread, is being introduced here in 2010, as a hatch also, based on my ownership of an SUV and a Lincoln sedan. There are a lot of reasons to dismiss some of the opinions on this board, including, occasionally, those with a fetish for a particular model/year Ford product. I don't think I have such a fixation, but I'd be curious what forward-looking market analysis wouldn't conclude that Americans will be more receptive to hatchbacks in the future than in the past? Perhaps even enough to offer a model for that group of consumers? Are VW, Honda, Toyo, Mercedes, BMW, Mazda, Mini, and Ford all wrong? Or is it just that my car buying history in the past 5 years is a better predictor?

 

I'd hate to think that either personal animus is driving the dialog on this board, or that RJ has ever been wrong.

 

Oh, and the MKX is obviously a hatch, btw.

1) We can agree that the ML class is crap. I have never been impressed with them. Not even when I was more easily impressed than I am now.

 

2) As to hatchbacks being 'more practical', I have yet to see evidence that the American consumer is, on average, practical. Even today's rush to small cars is, for many buyers, exceedingly impractical. For those able to simultaneously lower their car payment & fuel bill--bully! For every individual taking on a car payment in order to reduce a fuel bill.... For every individual trading off an upside down car... For every individual paying more up front than they will save in fuel costs down the line....

 

3) I fail to see the irony. My opinions on FoE/FNA products remain the same:

 

- importing/building =TODAY'S= Eurospec product for the NA market is a nonstarter. Would be a money loser

- FoE product does not fit FNA's design language or 'brandspace'; a showroom half full of Eurospec & NA spec products would do nothing to state what Ford stands for.

- Only one company in the Ford brand segment sells substantially the same products in Europe and NA. That would be Volkswagen, and they don't sell for crap here. In fact, VW has lost more on a unit by unit basis in NA than Ford has, over the last 5 years. Ford, to match VW's crappy performance in the US, would have to have lost something on the order of $40-50 billion over the last 5 years.

 

Ford wants to share platforms, hey, I'm all for it.

 

But as far as pretending that the US and Europe are no different than Minneapolis and St. Paul is, per VW's experiences here, suicidal.

 

The US IS different, and the lemming shift to small cars is no evidence that the fundamental differences between Europe and the US are changing (the US will still have less efficient mass transport, lower population density, longer commutes, lower expected TCO, and such things as drive-thrus). Those core differences aren't going away, and pretending that they don't matter is, well, just look at how well VW's doing.

 

Their record sales year was in 1971, and they used to be the most popular import brand in the US.

Edited June 23, 2008 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

Richard, I don't think many journalists and car enthuiasts in the US really get what Mulally is up to yet,

he is about to standardise Ford North America's cars along Ford global lines - including styling!!!

 

I have big reservations about this and feel strongly about styling individuality for a particular country,

that is what sets Detroit apart from Asian carmakers. This could all go very pear shaped!!

[rmc523]

Richard, I don't think many journalists and car enthuiasts in the US really get what Mulally is up to yet,

he is about to standardise Ford North America's cars along Ford global lines - including styling!!!

 

I have big reservations about this and feel strongly about styling individuality for a particular country,

that is what sets Detroit apart from Asian carmakers. This could all go very pear shaped!!

 

I too am a little iffy about the global design. That said, I do think most of the European products look good, however I like our American products as well. Also, Ford has said that the designs will vary slighlty depending on the market, so there is room for an "Americanized" European design.

[RichardJensen]

Richard, I don't think many journalists and car enthuiasts in the US really get what Mulally is up to yet,

he is about to standardise Ford North America's cars along Ford global lines - including styling!!!

 

I have big reservations about this and feel strongly about styling individuality for a particular country,

that is what sets Detroit apart from Asian carmakers. This could all go very pear shaped!!

Actually, Asian car makers have heavily adapted their lineup for the USA.

 

I've said it before, and will say it again:

 

One entry level brand is basically the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Volkswagen.

 

And they are sucking wind these days in the US

[sonofford]

Actually, Asian car makers have heavily adapted their lineup for the USA.

 

I've said it before, and will say it again:

 

One entry level brand is basically the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Volkswagen.

 

And they are sucking wind these days in the US

 

And that's because they don't change their lineup to suit US tastes? Perhaps. But their poor sales are probably also due to high prices, poor quality, and bad customer service at the dealer and manufacturer leves.

[NickF1011]

Keep up with the official Ford Press Releases !

 

Fiesta Job #1 is 2010CY (probably Jan) meaning it won't show up in dealers until Mar or Apr of 2010. I'll bet it is marketed as a 2011MY vehicle !

 

March would be "early '10" wouldn't it? Alright then.

[Surgen]

Actually, Asian car makers have heavily adapted their lineup for the USA.

 

I've said it before, and will say it again:

 

One entry level brand is basically the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Volkswagen.

 

And they are sucking wind these days in the US

 

There are very few non-luxury brands that are successful on both sides of the pond. Ford is the only one I can think of...

[RichardJensen]

And that's because they don't change their lineup to suit US tastes? Perhaps. But their poor sales are probably also due to high prices, poor quality, and bad customer service at the dealer and manufacturer leves.

High prices are directly connected to a failure to differentiate US & EU product.

 

Furthermore, VW market share has been pretty steadily shrinking over the past few decades. Why? Because Toyota & Honda stopped trying to sell JDM stuff here.

 

Pretending the US is suddenly Europe due to a few months of panic button buying is stupid.

[igor]

High prices are directly connected to a failure to differentiate US & EU product.

 

Furthermore, VW market share has been pretty steadily shrinking over the past few decades. Why? Because Toyota & Honda stopped trying to sell JDM stuff here.

 

Pretending the US is suddenly Europe due to a few months of panic button buying is stupid.

you are overstating the issue

 

1) the dimensions of the US and EU models are not identical - hell the Mondeo is LARGER than the Fusion - so is the C1 Focus v. C170 Focus

2) we have yet to see the new design language.

3) VW's are not more expensive than competition - they simply lack bare-bones models - otherwise they are on par with Japanese competition ..

 

There is no objective reason why it should not work - this the fact that Japan insists EU wants Contour-sized mid-sizes just shows their lack of understanding of EU market (and shows why they are failing to penetrate that market). GM is already on track to share everything under the skin across the globe - Daewoo/Opel/Chevy/Saturn/Holden/Vauxhall - the iC and CD cars will all be completely global with identical dimensions - most of them already are - and there is no problem. Styling wise - while they are different - they are not differed by any meaningful directions - they are just different and can easily be combined into global model sharing visible parts.

 

Igor

Edited June 23, 2008 by igor

[RichardJensen]

you are overstating the issue

 

1) the dimensions of the US and EU models are not identical - hell the Mondeo is LARGER than the Fusion - so is the C1 Focus v. C170 Focus

2) we have yet to see the new design language.

3) VW's are not more expensive than competition - they simply lack bare-bones models - otherwise they are on par with Japanese competition ..

 

There is no objective reason why it should not work - this the fact that Japan insists EU wants Contour-sized mid-sizes just shows their lack of understanding of EU market (and shows why they are failing to penetrate that market). GM is already on track to share everything under the skin across the globe - Daewoo/Opel/Chevy/Saturn/Holden/Vauxhall - the iC and CD cars will all be completely global with identical dimensions - most of them already are - and there is no problem. Styling wise - while they are different - they are not differed by any meaningful directions - they are just different and can easily be combined into global model sharing visible parts.

 

Igor

 

I don't think I'm overstating the issue one iota:

 

Having been in a leather equipped 2007 VW Passat with a manual fore and aft lever (and power recline and lumbar), I can assure you, it is not simply the lack of bare-bones models that is harming them in the US market. It is also their failure to understand what US customers expect.

 

Also, inasmuch as most cars sold are NOT bare-bones models, VW should be at no particular disadvantage there. VW's minuscule sales figures imply that there is more at work than simply a lack of stripper models.

 

Furthermore, VW prices -are- higher than US equivalent. Consider Passat AWD vs. Fusion AWD and Taurus AWD.

 

===

 

And to reiterate: I have nothing against platform sharing--it is probably the only way Ford can live off car volume.

 

However, this naive insistence that what sells in Vienna will sell in Billings just irks me no end.

Edited June 23, 2008 by RichardJensen