Deanh Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 That's how Microsoft defeated Apple in the 90's: Promise the world, deliver the bare minimum. The next version will be 10 times better than anything from Apple, we SWEAR, THIS TIME WE MEAN IT! hmm...Blu ray ( Sony )...HD DVD ( Toshiba ) anyone?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 People may have forgotten that the Fiesta and the Mazda 2 share the same chassis. AutoExpress listed the Mazda 2, with a 1.5 liter gas engine. It does not say whether VVT is part of the powertrain. The rating would be around 42mpg US http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...35/mazda_2.html Price: £11,799 Engine: 1.5-litre 4cyl, 102bhp Transmission: Five-speed manual, front-wheel drive 0-60mph: 10.0 seconds Top speed: 117mph Economy: 47.9mpg CO2: 140g/km Standard equipment: Stability control, alloys, cruise control, air-con, multifunction steering wheel, MP3 socket, electric rear windows, remote central locking On sale: Now good #'s....take off 5mpgs for the obligatory US emissions and theres the potential 42 mpgs I guess....but isnt the Fiesta getting a different powerplant that is 1.6?....wonder if they will swithch to a cam BELT to enhance NVH aka japanese style.......so what if one has to replace the damn thing at 60k...I want to see "as smooth as hondas......"...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 That's how Microsoft defeated Apple in the 90's: Promise the world, deliver the bare minimum. The next version will be 10 times better than anything from Apple, we SWEAR, THIS TIME WE MEAN IT! sounds like marriage vows....LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) People may have forgotten that the Fiesta and the Mazda 2 share the same chassis. AutoExpress listed the Mazda 2, with a 1.5 liter gas engine. It does not say whether VVT is part of the powertrain. The rating would be around 42mpg US http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...35/mazda_2.html Price: £11,799 Engine: 1.5-litre 4cyl, 102bhp Transmission: Five-speed manual, front-wheel drive 0-60mph: 10.0 seconds Top speed: 117mph Economy: 47.9mpg CO2: 140g/km Standard equipment: Stability control, alloys, cruise control, air-con, multifunction steering wheel, MP3 socket, electric rear windows, remote central locking On sale: Now Yeah I always expected the Mazda2 to deliver better FE. - The car is lighter. Terrible road & wind noise due to the lack of sound deadening to save weight. (See reviews) - Different engine, materials, etc. The focus was on trimming weight at every step, refinement be dammed. Again 38 MPG comes from most Fiesta reviews so far, and that's with the all new, modern and quite refined 1.6L Ti-VCT Duratec, not the Flinstone's powerplant we're getting, which could potentially ruin the experience for quite a lot of folks. I can already hear the excuses around launch... "Bububu ethanol ready" "Bububu bullet proof" Trying to make the car run as silent as the one in Europe, with its impressive 1.6L Ti-VCT Duratec, will require additional sound deadening, which will add weight, which will in turn affect FE. Any improvements from the dual clutch tranny, most likely, will just offset the losses from the additional weight between both versions. Edited September 1, 2008 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Again 38 MPG comes from most Fiesta reviews so far, Please supply links to these road-tests. The Autocar says 47.9 combined, so 50 mpg highway is reasonable, which translates to 45-6 mpg US. http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstD...-Ti-VCT/234614/ Also, while you're at it, please supply links where reviewers complain about the Mazda 2 "with terrible wind noise", etc. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...35/mazda_2.html The AutoExpress review, for example, makes no mention of such an egregious fault, with 4 out of 5 stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Google is your friend. Also, imperial gallons != US gallons, please supply your results and spin some more. Nice damage control Edstock, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Nice damage control Edstock, keep it up. Thank-you. But please, explain, what damage are you referring to, that has to be controlled? Let's see now, the Fiesta is 1 month into its EU launch, available in Germany. Currently, the EU powertrains seem competitive in the EU market, with the 1.6 gas engine doing 47.9 combined UK mileage. Now the US gallon, being some 10% smaller than the UK Imperial unit, should give what, 45 mpg US on highway?, and 41-42 combined, due to the smaller US gallon. That seems to be competitive. Now, we have to determine what the North American Fiesta powertrain will be. So, again, please tell us where this "damage" you speak of is, and how this "damage" is controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) the US gallon, being some 10% smaller than the UK Imperial unit LOL... minus 10%... try twice that Yup, no damage control whatsoever. BTW I'm glad you liked those fake Mazda2 reviews that I made up just for you. "Please supply additional spins" :rolleyes: Edited September 1, 2008 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 1 U.S. gallon equals .833 Imperial gallons. More like a 20% reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 1 U.S. gallon equals .833 Imperial gallons. More like a 20% reduction. Almost exactly 20% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 1 U.S. gallon equals .833 Imperial gallons. More like a 20% reduction. So, if the 1.6 5-speed gets 47.9 UK mpg combined, the US version would get around 38 US mpg combined, and therefore probably 41-42 US mpg on the highway. But until the US model is in the showrooms, it's all speculation. People like 'Sario speculate on the negative, others do the obverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Ford introduces Fiesta Econetic diesel, Only in Europe Ford Introduces 63.6 MPG ECOnetic Diesel Fiesta... Only in Europe Fuel economy for the ECOnetic Fiesta is 3.7 L/100km (63.6 mpg US) combined, or 3.2 L/100km (73.5 mpg US) on the highway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Ford introduces Fiesta Econetic diesel, Only in Europe Ford Introduces 63.6 MPG ECOnetic Diesel Fiesta... Only in Europe Fuel economy for the ECOnetic Fiesta is 3.7 L/100km (63.6 mpg US) combined, or 3.2 L/100km (73.5 mpg US) on the highway! Jelly...you pulling a Mlhm? LOL!...please don't say its so..we know this, you have supplied this info numerous times....rmember....we are in our own bubblre here....figures on vehicles that will never see the light of day here mean NOTHING to us....we are too pre-occupied with saving the red bellied Gnat snatcher....and removing Redwood splinters from a bout of tree hugging.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) But, But the Fiesta is supposed to replace the Flex. [Extreme sarcasm] And here I was expecting 100 mpg and 7 people carrier that would tow a 3.5 tonne tralier. And it not RWD either!!! Gees ford have really dropped the ball with the Fiesta. [/Extreme sarcasm] Edited September 1, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Bo bo bo I'm not spinning, 20% = 10% 49.7 - 20% = Stubborn Edstock owning himself. Cheerleader tip 1596: When someone's right, say he is "speculating negatively" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Jelly...you pulling a Mlhm? LOL!...please don't say its so..we know this, you have supplied this info numerous times....rmember....we are in our own bubblre here....figures on vehicles that will never see the light of day here mean NOTHING to us....we are too pre-occupied with saving the red bellied Gnat snatcher....and removing Redwood splinters from a bout of tree hugging.... Obama likes the niff of diesel cars high MPG low CO2 and freezing all the polar bears and old folk to death he will change the legislation like they did in Europe so it gets you off Arab oil and cuts the US trade debt in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Wow............... close to 50, when noone else is even around 40 with a B car. Thats a pretty tall order. Somehow, I don't think you are going to be happy, if that is what you expect in a $13-16K car. I guess we will see. If the Fiesta gets anywhere close to that............... paint me surprised. Reportedly the Fiesta will get 39mpg highway, but let's hope Ford tweaks it while in engineering phase to at least 40mpg and perhaps more. GM is talking at least 45mpg for its new Cruze due out about same time. The Cruze will be using DI and turbo technology. Remember though, the Yaris and Fit clown cars only get about 35mpg as of now. Within 5 years, I believe to be competitive an auto manufacturer will have to average 25mpg across truck line and at least 35mpg across mid sized car lineup and over 40mpg in compact and below car lineup. Car based Crossovers will have to be better than 25mpg IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) Market forces will drive the needed fuel economy far better than any CAFE legislation. Pity CAFE could not make exceptions for the likes of Econetic diesels and others from Europe. Edited September 1, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Market forces will drive the needed fuel economy far better than any CAFE legislation.Pity CAFE could not make exceptions for the likes of Econetic diesels and others from Europe. Not anymore. Conservation has to be number one. With Global Warming a reality, and cleaner air a must in big cities, CAFE will become increasingly important and there will be no turning back now. If fuel prices go down, then it should be taxed to make sure Americans conserve whether they want to or not. We cannot continue on forever burning more and more fossil fuel and concrete up every square mile of America for our auto lifestyle. I'm not a crazy that wants to put every American into clown car, but there has to be a sensible energy policy that includes conseriving fuel and I don't think Americans will do it voluntarily. Tax the hell out of it if price goes down and offer more mass transit across the nation and force auto manufacturers to poduce vehicles that get ever better fuel economy. America finally needs a comprehensive energy policy that makes sense and will conserve fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 We're agreeing about the same thing. High gas prices forced lots of people out of their SUVs - no CAFE needed there. Bring on $4-$5-$6/gallon gasoline - that will do more for the economy than any CAFE rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) Wow............... close to 50, when noone else is even around 40 with a B car. Thats a pretty tall order. Somehow, I don't think you are going to be happy, if that is what you expect in a $13-16K car. I guess we will see. If the Fiesta gets anywhere close to that............... paint me surprised. I would hope they can better the mileage of the old Festiva. They had 10years to improve on it and there is no excuse. People today would be buying that car for MPG only, not because it is some wondeful, comfy people mover with excellent acceleration. They should detune the motor to blow the competition away and attract buyers even if it sacrafices accelration and 0-60 times. Magazines will rip it apart for poor accleration etc.. but they are going to do it anyway. Might as well be on top of the looks and MPG department. If the Corolla can pull off 35-38mpg why would the import crowd jump ship? I've seen the corolla get way better MPG than the EPA est. and that's not with those idiotic hypermiler folks. Edited September 2, 2008 by Hydro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Cheerleader tip 1596: When someone's right, say he is "speculating negatively" Actually, when someone's right, I say, they're right. You could even be right, but we won't know until the Fiesta is in the showroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Reportedly the Fiesta will get 39mpg highway, but let's hope Ford tweaks it while in engineering phase to at least 40mpg and perhaps more. GM is talking at least 45mpg for its new Cruze due out about same time. The Cruze will be using DI and turbo technology. Remember though, the Yaris and Fit clown cars only get about 35mpg as of now. Within 5 years, I believe to be competitive an auto manufacturer will have to average 25mpg across truck line and at least 35mpg across mid sized car lineup and over 40mpg in compact and below car lineup. Car based Crossovers will have to be better than 25mpg IMO. Lets get this clear, ok?? Fiesta is a B class car. Cruze will be an upmarket C class car (meaning it will be more expensive than the existing Cobalt, which is rumored to be continuing on after Cruze debuts). Profit margins for a B class car are razor thin. NOBODY will pay big bucks for one. It is goint to be interesting to see how high people will pay for C class cars. Until the recent crisis, people really didn't want to pay much for them either. Thus, with higher profit margins on a C class car............ especially an upmarket one like the Cruze is supposed to be............. there is more room to put in the more expensive technology. In other words, your $15K Fiesta may only get 38mpg combined (perfectly acceptable based on its competition). Your $25K Cruze may get 45mpg combined (I doubt it.......... I would think 45mpg hwy). It is up to the individual buyer to decide which way they want to go. If it is ONLY about FE, then you can buy alot of gas for $10K. These cars do not compete............... in size, or in price. They do all, however, have 4 tires and a steering wheel. As for your contention that global warming is a reality. Please. Unless scientists have data for the last 5000 years or so.............. don't sign me up for that one. You cannot base climatic change on 100 years of data. The planet has been much warmer, and much cooler, throughout time. Sorry, but I'm not willing to jump on the GW cult bandwagon. Should we be environmentally conscious, yes. Should we revert back to the stone age, thinking that we are solving the worlds problems.......... NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Lets get this clear, ok?? Fiesta is a B class car. Cruze will be an upmarket C class car (meaning it will be more expensive than the existing Cobalt, which is rumored to be continuing on after Cruze debuts). Profit margins for a B class car are razor thin. NOBODY will pay big bucks for one. It is goint to be interesting to see how high people will pay for C class cars. Until the recent crisis, people really didn't want to pay much for them either. Thus, with higher profit margins on a C class car............ especially an upmarket one like the Cruze is supposed to be............. there is more room to put in the more expensive technology. In other words, your $15K Fiesta may only get 38mpg combined (perfectly acceptable based on its competition). Your $25K Cruze may get 45mpg combined (I doubt it.......... I would think 45mpg hwy). It is up to the individual buyer to decide which way they want to go. If it is ONLY about FE, then you can buy alot of gas for $10K. These cars do not compete............... in size, or in price. They do all, however, have 4 tires and a steering wheel. As for your contention that global warming is a reality. Please. Unless scientists have data for the last 5000 years or so.............. don't sign me up for that one. You cannot base climatic change on 100 years of data. The planet has been much warmer, and much cooler, throughout time. Sorry, but I'm not willing to jump on the GW cult bandwagon. Should we be environmentally conscious, yes. Should we revert back to the stone age, thinking that we are solving the worlds problems.......... NO. Isn't it ironic that the cold weather countries like Canada are the ones most alarmed by Global Warning problems like ice that is melting at alarming rates. Shipping lanes are changing along with boundary problems that result from ice sheet receding. Canada is a little country as far as population goes, but is bearing brunt of Global Warming as results become very obvious. The colder you are, the more obvious the problem is. And scientists have been able to study gases from thousands of years ago by drilling into ice sheet and seeing how much CO was in air thousands of years ago all the way up to today. Towns by the sea are disappearing as the ice recedes and the sea pounds these towns into submission when they used to be frozen many months of year. Alaska has many of the same problems as towns have to be dismantled and moved inland at huge expense. Countries like the U.S. with huge populations and hundreds of millions of cars are the ones damaging cold weather countries like Canada the most. We need to have a more diverse transportation system like Europe and are auto fleet needs to have CAFE standards that mirror MPG numbers in Europe somewhat. And we need to wean ourselves off of OPEC oil somewhat over time. As an individual all we can do is buy most fuel efficient vehicle that fits are needs and maintain it well and drive sensiblly for best gas mileage. Keep our home well insulated and buy Energy Star products and do our part to get handle on this potentially catastrophic long term problem. We have all kinds of reasonons to be more efficient in our lifestyles. Better fuel mileage is just one of them. We can't afford to waste fuel anymore if we want to leave better planet to next generations. Ford seems to see the light and hopefully will be at the forefront of producing very green future products like PZEV Focus. Henry Ford used to be very efficient in the way he used to use the forces of nature and hopefully Ford will keep up this tradition with plants like the new Dearborn Truck Plant that uses nature to sustain itself in many ways from roof to using waste water. Its very educational to drive Hines Park in Metro Detroit and see plant after plant that was built by Henry Ford along Rouge River and used the flow of river to power each small plant that built parts for the Model T. Big airy buildings like Phoenix plant off of Northville Rd and plant in downtown Northville that is now a Fitness Center. I sure want to see Ford Motor become the Greenest auto manufacturer on planet and GM be second as I sincerely wish the Volt is game changer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@_@ Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) Just want to ask one question first... Are we going to get the Euro version of Fiesta or the India version of Fiesta? If it is the Euro Version, we got a winner. If it is the India Version, bye bye Ford... Edited September 2, 2008 by @_@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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