If GM went under....

[catan70]

Well as sad as it is to say, if gm went under im curious what would happen with Ford. Would their sales increase or would they go under? Would they receive some of gm's technology? Would they even survive without gm?

[rmc523]

Well as sad as it is to say, if gm went under im curious what would happen with Ford. Would their sales increase or would they go under? Would they receive some of gm's technology? Would they even survive without gm?

 

I think the bad would far outweigh the good.

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-collapse-wo...us-economy.html

 

While sales could theoretically increase because people may not want to buy from an unstable (bankrupt) company, the damage to the supplier base would cripple all companies, not just Ford.

[Ford-150]

it would suck for America

[Ford Jellymoulds]

When British Leyland decided that boring cars :boring: are what folk really dreamed of owning and went bankrupt Ford sales boomed in the UK, GM sales will plunge under Chapter 11 but they will come out of it a much smaller but stronger company with less staff on a lot less pay on worse terms and conditions.

 

Just like British Leyland they will be coming out of it with the same line-up of trucks & cars that sent them into bankruptcy in first place which won't help them a lot.

 

It's a shame GM don't build something classic again but the word classic seems to be a car most folk want but the automaker just won't build make them for buyers these days, gotta say l can't understand why. Classic F-Series and Silverado don't seem doing to bad on it why is such a sin to do it on cars :boring: ?

 

Ford and Toyota will take a lot of sales away from GM if they go into Chapter 11, gotta say l can't understand why GM CEO Rick is sooooo static and not doing a lot to stop the 75 million a day cash burn as this down could last as long as mid 2010 time GM has not got.

It looks like he does not want fix or rock the boat as it heads for the rocks.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[jpd80]

When British Leyland decided that boring cars :boring: are what folk really dreamed of owning and went bankrupt Ford sales boomed in the UK, GM sales will plunge under Chapter 11 but they will come out of it a much smaller but stronger company with less staff on a lot less pay on worse terms and conditions.

Chapter 11 option is not an option for GM, restructuring loans are all dried up.

and that's why they're pleading with Bush/Obama to allow cheap loans, it's their last chance.

 

Without the loans, GM will hit their $13 billion minimum cash operating value by late December.

Without government funding, I'm afraid it's nearing Chapter 7 slice and dice time.

[mettech]

Would the UAW allow GM to dump everything but Chevy and Cadillac?

 

NOW!!!!

[NickF1011]

When British Leyland decided that boring cars :boring: are what folk really dreamed of owning and went bankrupt Ford sales boomed in the UK, GM sales will plunge under Chapter 11 but they will come out of it a much smaller but stronger company with less staff on a lot less pay on worse terms and conditions.

 

Just like British Leyland they will be coming out of it with the same line-up of trucks & cars that sent them into bankruptcy in first place which won't help them a lot.

 

It's a shame GM don't build something classic again but the word classic seems to be a car most folk want but the automaker just won't build make them for buyers these days, gotta say l can't understand why. Classic F-Series and Silverado don't seem doing to bad on it why is such a sin to do it on cars :boring: ?

 

Ford and Toyota will take a lot of sales away from GM if they go into Chapter 11, gotta say l can't understand why GM CEO Rick is sooooo static and not doing a lot to stop the 75 million a day cash burn as this down could last as long as mid 2010 time GM has not got.

It looks like he does not want fix or rock the boat as it heads for the rocks.

 

More brilliant insight from FJ. Yeah, if only GM still sold great "classic" vehicles like the Corvette (oh wait) and the Camaro (hmmm) then they'd be doing just fine. I mean look at the abundance of classic cars in Toyota's and Honda's lineup that have them topping the charts. The classic Camry (errrr) and Accord (wait a second here) are the kind of classic vehicles GM should have been building all along!!!!

 

British Leyland died because it was a poorly run business, not because it stopped offering exciting vehicles compared to Ford.

Edited November 11, 2008 by NickF1011

[Ford Jellymoulds]

British Leyland died because it was a poorly run business, not because it stopped offering exciting vehicles compared to Ford.

 

You are talking shit as usual Nick British Leyland cars were as dull as ditchwater as exciting as watching paint dry, Fords at the time were not they were million times better than the souless boring dull bland crap of today.

 

When all cars look the same like they do today, it makes the choice sooooooooooooooooh much easier for the buyer they choose just one thing reliabilty which means the Toyota BMW & VW win.

 

Classic F-Series & Classic Silverado Chevy breaks the mould and are not boring they show boring dull Ford GM cars how its done do they get more MPG than a Focus Nick or something?

 

Below are the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. last month.

Top 10 Sales: October 2008

 

1. Ford F-Series: 43,324

 

2. Chevy Silverado: 31,689

 

3. Toyota Camry 30,556

 

4. Toyota Corolla 27,386

 

5. Chevy Impala: 22,107

 

6. Honda Accord: 19,783

 

7. Honda Civic: 18,582

 

8. Dodge Ram: 17,626

 

9. Nissan Altima: 17,753

 

10. Honda CR-V: 13,169

Edited November 11, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[ironhorse]

GM in bankrupcy would hasten the end of Ford, and the rest of the American industry. Consumers would flock to Toyota,Honda and the Koreans....It would absolutely shatter the public's confidence in the american automotive industry.

[NickF1011]

You are talking shit as usual Nick British Leyland cars were as dull as ditchwater as exciting as watching paint dry, Fords at the time were not they were million times better than the souless boring dull bland crap of today.

 

When all cars look the same like they do today, it makes the choice sooooooooooooooooh much easier for the buyer they choose just one thing reliabilty which means the Toyota BMW & VW win.

 

Classic F-Series & Classic Silverado Chevy breaks the mould and are not boring they show boring dull Ford GM cars how its done do they get more MPG than a Focus Nick or something?

 

Below are the 10 best-selling vehicles in the U.S. last month.

Top 10 Sales: October 2008

 

1. Ford F-Series: 43,324

 

2. Chevy Silverado: 31,689

 

3. Toyota Camry 30,556

 

4. Toyota Corolla 27,386

 

5. Chevy Impala: 22,107

 

6. Honda Accord: 19,783

 

7. Honda Civic: 18,582

 

8. Dodge Ram: 17,626

 

9. Nissan Altima: 17,753

 

10. Honda CR-V: 13,169

 

Are you somehow suggesting that the F-150 and Silverado aren't "boring" compared to the Camry, Corolla, Impala, and Accord? For cripes sake, your logic is dumbfounding. Maybe Ford should push the F-150 in Europe. After all, it's exciting and rear-wheel-drive! That will turn around Ford's fortunes!!

 

Gee, take a look at that list of Top 10s. How many of those are rear-wheel-drive? The 3 trucks. Have you ever seen a front-wheel-drive full-size truck? No. So suggesting that they are sucessful because of rear-wheel-drive is not a conclusion that can be proven. They are successful because they are full-size pickups, which is a popular segment in the US. The rest of that list? FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.

 

I don't know where the hell you get off with the "all cars look the same today" crap either. I think your vision is failing you in your old age. And well, if they all look the same anyway as you suggest, why the heck would it matter if a car was front-wheel-drive or rear-wheel-drive? It'll all still just be jellymoulded crap in your opinion. I know! We can throw big pointless fins and gaudy chrome bumpers with tits on them on the Fusion. That'll make it sell!!

Edited November 11, 2008 by NickF1011

[97svtgoin05gt]

GM in bankrupcy would hasten the end of Ford, and the rest of the American industry. Consumers would flock to Toyota,Honda and the Koreans....It would absolutely shatter the public's confidence in the american automotive industry.

 

I tend to agree with this prediction. People (in general) right now are buying far more Japanese vehicles than they are American. Remember, the public to a large degree are sheep. Toyota told people "its smart thinking" to buy a Toyota. Talk about the power of suggestion. On top of that, the oil companies with their gouging in recent years have combined to practically kill the American auto industry. Now, its not that America and our auto industries aren't without blame in the game. GM, Ford and Chryco all should've been able (with the smart brainy college degreed people) to see the writing on the wall regarding having a MUCH broader product line of fuel efficient vehicles on tap, but they didn't. And yes, people have been buying gas guzzling product for a long time quite briskly, but things change rapidly on this planet now, as we have all witnessed. These 3 companies were completely caught with their pants down. When the brakes came on with the gas guzzlers, there was no product there for Americans to look at. Focus sales are through the roof with this mess, but the issue is everything else Ford offers is down..and in some cases WAY down. Poor Focus cannot level that up by iteself.

 

Anyway, the sheep will see GM headed for bankrupcy and immediately think "Well, I'm not buying anything from GM, they're going down". Which is exactly the reverse of what we should be doing. If we all really were TRUE Americans, we'd see the company in trouble and buy their product in spades in order to assist them. Remember when this happened to Chrysler back in the 80s? People bought the K car in huge numbers. America rallied around Chryco to assist them in their time of need. When I see people buying thousands of foreign vehicles as opposed to American product, it makes me upset. I understand that these companies need change and we should hold them accountable especially if America gets behind them and helps them to survive. They need to change and do it quickly. The product lines need to be more evenly set up to offer both the heavy duty gas guzzling stuff for the people that need it, but they need to offer more fuel efficient product THAT WORKS and is nice. Sub-standard stuff won't do it. Make this stuff as nice or nicer than the Toyotas and Nissans of the world or it won't sell. If we fall back on the unions creating issues so that these goals aren't attainable, then the unions time has come and gone in the American auto industry.

 

I'm done. :stats:

Edited November 11, 2008 by 97svtgoin05gt

[NickF1011]

People (in general) right now are buying far more Japanese vehicles than they are American.

 

Except they aren't. American vehicles hold about the same market share as the Japanese do, if not a wee bit higher still.

[97svtgoin05gt]

Are you sure about that? Where are your numbers coming from? And once again, assuming your correct about the numbers, then we have to address the cost side of the businesses and of course once again, we're back at the union wage and benefit issue.

[kpc655]

Ch 11 would mean protection from creditors and time to reorganize...only to the extent their cashflow and cash on hand buys them time. They probably couldn't borrow any more money (in the private sector).

We'd probably see..

-further brand cuts

-personnel cuts at all levels

-fire sale of assets to shrink overhead and production capacity

-new AW contract moved up or re-opened

 

Chysler, GM and ford still sell millions of cars...they just can't seem to shrink their cost structure to survive on that. They're structured to sell far, far more. That's a shame. The reality is sales may never materialize to previous levels.

 

Selfishly, I'm waiting for a 2 for 1 z06 deal.

[NickF1011]

Selfishly, I'm waiting for a 2 for 1 z06 deal.

 

 

Sign me up for a couple!

[mettech]

Many of you have the wrong reason why the NA consumer are not buying from the American 3. And it's a simple reason:

 

THEY DON"T WANT TO!!!! THEY LIKE THE JAPANESE CARs!!!

 

Everyone of my friends and family that have a Japanese made car will not even look at a product from the American 3.

 

They have been disappointed in the past by the Big 3 and they won't go back.

 

The American 3 could build the best car in the world for under $30K, and a large % of people that currently own a Japanese will refuse to even look at it.

 

The only reason to change from one brand to another is if you get a troublesome product. That is why the Big 3 is now the American 3.

 

If you have a good rapport with your current Japanese (or domestic) dealership and salesperson, why change? If you like it... stay with it.

 

The customers that left the American 3, won't come back. And the American 3 have few products for the young consumer.

[NickF1011]

Many of you have the wrong reason why the NA consumer are not buying from the American 3. And it's a simple reason:

 

THEY DON"T WANT TO!!!! THEY LIKE THE JAPANESE CARs!!!

 

Everyone of my friends and family that have a Japanese made car will not even look at a product from the American 3.

 

They have been disappointed in the past by the Big 3 and they won't go back.

 

The American 3 could build the best car in the world for under $30K, and a large % of people that currently own a Japanese will refuse to even look at it.

 

The only reason to change from one brand to another is if you get a troublesome product. That is why the Big 3 is now the American 3.

 

If you have a good rapport with your current Japanese (or domestic) dealership and salesperson, why change? If you like it... stay with it.

 

The customers that left the American 3, won't come back. And the American 3 have few products for the young consumer.

 

You can win back customers with good product and good service, the latter of which has never really been a high point for the Japanese anyway. It will take the domestics offering a better product than the Japanese for the same price, or an equal product at a lower price to do it, but they can do it.

 

There are plenty of people who own Japanese cars who aren't Japanese-loyal. I own a Mazda. I wouldn't buy "only Japanese". My mom has a Toyota. She doesn't want to buy another one. There is room to make inroads.

Edited November 11, 2008 by NickF1011

[Ford Jellymoulds]

You can win back customers with good product and good service, the latter of which has never really been a high point for the Japanese anyway. It will take the domestics offering a better product than the Japanese for the same price, or an equal product at a lower price to do it, but they can do it.

 

There are plenty of people who own Japanese cars who aren't Japanese-loyal. I own a Mazda. I wouldn't buy "only Japanese". My mom has a Toyota. She doesn't want to buy another one. There is room to make inroads.

 

I used to think you came from such a kool familiy Nick. Cobra's, Stingray's & F-150's your Mums gotta Toyota!!!

 

That kinda put the dampers on it, what will she buy next then Nick?

 

I am still working hard on Mrs Moulds to sell her Pug diesel and buy a NEW Fiesta but says it looks like a Focus (Which she hates), she also hates the Fiat 500.

She want's a NEW Pug 207 or keeping what she's got, so she won't be buying a new car.

[atomaro]

I don't think Ford would mind picking up the bulk of those Silverdao sales....

[silvrsvt]

Many of you have the wrong reason why the NA consumer are not buying from the American 3. And it's a simple reason:

 

THEY DON"T WANT TO!!!! THEY LIKE THE JAPANESE CARs!!!

 

Everyone of my friends and family that have a Japanese made car will not even look at a product from the American 3.

 

They have been disappointed in the past by the Big 3 and they won't go back.

 

The American 3 could build the best car in the world for under $30K, and a large % of people that currently own a Japanese will refuse to even look at it.

 

The only reason to change from one brand to another is if you get a troublesome product. That is why the Big 3 is now the American 3.

 

If you have a good rapport with your current Japanese (or domestic) dealership and salesperson, why change? If you like it... stay with it.

 

The customers that left the American 3, won't come back. And the American 3 have few products for the young consumer.

 

The problem with that thinking is that when people buy a Foreign make and have problems with it, they make up excuses and don't hold it to the same standard that they did with an American car.

 

Hell my Focus I had was a total Turd. But the Mustangs I had before and after it where just about flawless. I don't see myself buying a Japanese made car anytime soon...esp when I can get a Ford product at a good discount and its made just as well as those Japanese cars.

[Sixt9coug]

I used to think you came from such a kool familiy Nick. Cobra's, Stingray's & F-150's your Mums gotta Toyota!!!

 

That kinda put the dampers on it, what will she buy next then Nick?

 

I am still working hard on Mrs Moulds to sell her Pug diesel and buy a NEW Fiesta but says it looks like a Focus (Which she hates), she also hates the Fiat 500.

She want's a NEW Pug 207 or keeping what she's got, so she won't be buying a new car.

 

 

I'm still cool right? My mom will only buy Mustangs.

[snooter]

I'm still cool right? My mom will only buy Mustangs.

 

story is GM just pulled out of the LA international auto show...according to bloomberg

[NickF1011]

I used to think you came from such a kool familiy Nick. Cobra's, Stingray's & F-150's your Mums gotta Toyota!!!

 

That kinda put the dampers on it, what will she buy next then Nick?

 

I am still working hard on Mrs Moulds to sell her Pug diesel and buy a NEW Fiesta but says it looks like a Focus (Which she hates), she also hates the Fiat 500.

She want's a NEW Pug 207 or keeping what she's got, so she won't be buying a new car.

 

She previously drove the 2 Tauruses in my signature at one point or another before I "inherited" them. I'm hoping she'll go back to a '10 Taurus. The only reason she bought the Toyota in the first place was because Ford "ruined" the Taurus in 96. I can't say I disagree with her on that much.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I'm still cool right? My mom will only buy Mustangs.

 

LOL

 

It sounds like you have the most koooooooooolest Mum on the planet, mine uses the Bus like most old Brits you get free bus pass once you get to 60, a lot of women give up driving once they retire its becoming so expensive to own a car in the UK these days because of a "greedy tax-guzzling " British government.

[fordmantpw]

"tax-guzzling"