351cid Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It may not be the synthetic oil that makes a difference. A car owner that uses synthetic oil would tend to be more conscientious about regular oil changes. Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Mobil 1 all the way. Even with the brief time I used it in my 1988 Lincoln Town Car. It helped with the gas mileage as well. I still get 24 MPG on the highway on average. And that thing has almost 180,000 miles on it! Lately I switched back (for cost reasons) to High Mileage Pennzoil which is good to use also. NEVER USE QUAKER STATE! I wonder if the Toyota owners with engine sludge problems used Mobil 1. I'm sure it didn't help in their poorly designed sludgemobiles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Dealers aren't making the money off of oil changes, more like a loss leader. Throw in the free safety inspection and topping off of fluids It's basicly a break even. They may however try to "upsell" a needed or not needed service in order to make some cash. P.S. I have mine changed every 3k at the local (12 miles away since my dealership folded) dealer. EDIT: Motorcraft filter and oil of course. The point was dealers will almost always recommend more frequent oil changes than the mfr requires for no other reason than to drum up business - one way or the other. It doesn't mean anything with regards to engine life or oil quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Lately I switched back (for cost reasons) to High Mileage Pennzoil which is good to use also. NEVER USE QUAKER STATE! How does that figure? Both Pennzoil and Quaker State are part of Shell Oil Company (SOPUS Products). Shell's product data sheets show no significant differences in the physical and chemical properties for Pennzoil and Quaker State branded motor oils within the same market segment. Also, the conventional oils sold under both brands meet Ford standards WSS-M2C930-A (SAE 5W-20) and WSS-M2C929-A (SAE 5W-30). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) That's overkill for most of today's engines. 5,000 - 7,500 miles is command and recommended. 3/3K is just wasting oil. Exactly! Engines and oil technology have come a long way but myths and old habits die hard. None of the owners manuals for any of my cars suggest a 3K oil change even under severe conditions. I have a few friends in Germany that can't believe how often Americans change oil. The average German will change their oil once a year. I think that's crazy but it works for them. Germans don't drive as much as we do and oil costs a lot more, about $10 a quart. Edited January 2, 2009 by Paul Selby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Both Pennzoil and Quaker State Are brands I will not use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 In my view, synthetic is only needed if you're doing extended drain intervals or if it's high performance/turbocharged/supercharged engine.If it's a 'normal' engine and you're following the 3 month/3000mile drain interval, then just use regular oil. An antiquated idea that went out with the "do not cross-rotate radial tires" nonsense. Dealers aren't making the money off of oil changes......Throw in the free safety inspection and...... The "free safety inspections" are where they get ya......drum up at least $35-$75 additional work on every vehicle and now you've got a back shop that is turning some numbers.....ever wonder why they will rotate your tires for free?? So that can get a look at your brakes, shocks, and suspension pieces to drum up some more added on maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCKRACER Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Exactly! Engines and oil technology have come a long way but myths and old habits die hard. None of the owners manuals for any of my cars suggest a 3K oil change even under severe conditions. I have a few friends in Germany that can't believe how often Americans change oil. The average German will change their oil once a year. I think that's crazy but it works for them. Germans don't drive as much as we do and oil costs a lot more, about $10 a quart. Read your owners manual. Look at what "severe driving" means. Basically, unless your start your car and drive at legal speeds continuously, without stoppping, through clean, cool air on level ground with no towing you won't have to change your oil until 7,500 mi. Severe driving is towing, stop and go, uphill, short trips, dusty roads, heat, cold. Anyone here do "severe driving"? Edited January 2, 2009 by DUCKRACER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The "free safety inspections" are where they get ya......drum up at least $35-$75 additional work on every vehicle Customer has the option of saying no thank you. Only one that gets screwed on safety inspections is the dealer tech that is doing it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I have used Mobil 1 on and off for many years. First experience was shortly after it came out (70's or 80s) on my Dad's car (Merc with a 400 V8) because he traveled "up north" in winter. He said the starter spun the engine like it was spring time when the temp was -20F !! I'm using Mobil 1 exclusively on my 2007 Milan, D30. Primarily because it is readily available at Walmart at a very low price in the 5 quart jug. I almost switched to Pennzoil Platinum (which is a buck or 2 cheaper) though, when Walmart was out of stock of Mobil 1 5W-20 for 5 weeks ! I don't by the hype from Royal Purple or Amzoil. The Motorcraft semi-synthetic is actually a good deal !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Read your owners manual. Look at what "severe driving" means. Basically, unless your start your car and drive at legal speeds continuously, without stoppping, through clean, cool air on level ground with no towing you won't have to change your oil until 7,500 mi. Severe driving is towing, stop and go, uphill, short trips, dusty roads, heat, cold. Anyone here do "severe driving"? I did read my manuals, re-read my post. Other than my truck, oil changes under severe conditions are only needed at 4,500 or 5,000 on all my other cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Walmart You complain that your engineer friends are losing their jobs, then go shopping at China-mart? Sorry to take this thread off topic, but his hypocrisy made me do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 That's overkill (3 months/3,000 mile) for most of today's engines. 5,000 - 7,500 miles is command and recommended. 3/3K is just wasting oil. I concur. Ford has gone back and forth on 5,000/7,500 mile oil change intervals. I actually spoke to an engineers in "Fuels and Lubes" a few years ago and asked him why the flip flop. He said it was pressure from the dealers to get the customers back in more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Read your owners manual. Look at what "severe driving" means. Basically, unless your start your car and drive at legal speeds continuously, without stoppping, through clean, cool air on level ground with no towing you won't have to change your oil until 7,500 mi. Severe driving is towing, stop and go, uphill, short trips, dusty roads, heat, cold. If your going to quote the owners manual, you should try to be accurate ! If you feel you may not operate your vehicle under normal / everyday conditions, but primarily under the special operating conditions outlined below, you will need to increase the frequency of some maintenance operations. • Towing a trailer or carrying heavy loads • Extensive idling and/or driving at low-speeds for long distances • Driving in dusty conditions • Off-road operation • Use of E85 fuel 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only) Not a word about hills or hot and cold ! Edited January 2, 2009 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 You complain that your engineer friends are losing their jobs, then go shopping at China-mart? Sorry to take this thread off topic, but his hypocrisy made me do it. What hypocrisy ? I'm buying an American made product from an American retailer ? Why wouldn't I keep the extra $7-$8 in my pocket ? No auto parts stores in my neighborhood sell Mobil 1 in the 5 quart jug ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What hypocrisy ? I'm buying an American made product from an American retailer ? Why wouldn't I keep the extra $7-$8 in my pocket ? No auto parts stores in my neighborhood sell Mobil 1 in the 5 quart jug ! http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/ It's a long video, but your retired and have plenty of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Mobil 1 has historically been a great product, but as mentioned about 2-3 years ago it started showing high iron readings in used oil analyses. Then along comes Valvoline and well, it adds up. In fact, ever since Exxon merged with Mobil the M1 line has been steadily cheapened with every major reformulation. Until I see that M1 actually passes Seq IVA, and starts showing iron wear on par with Pennzoil Platinum in UOAs, I will not be spending my money on M1. As far as people not using Pennzoil products, there is no reason to buy into that. Shell bought Pennzoil/QS in 2002 and they have been flawless operations ever since. Pennzoil is now essentially Shell's flagship oil line, good stuff. Even their yellow bottle conventional oil is one of the better conventional oils. By most accounts QS is identical to Pennzoil regarding bases, but with a bit weaker/cheaper additive packages. Edited January 2, 2009 by White99GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You might wish to investigate what the word "synthetic" oil means. It does not mean what it originally meant. Some of the cheap synthetics have base stocks barely better than petroleum based oils. And some of the synthetics use grade 4 and 5 base stocks, and are outstanding products. You can look up what all this means. Suffice to say....good synthetic oils will perform in extreme hot and cold conditions better than traditional oils. They also claim to hold solids in suspension better, thus giving a longer service life. They have a much higher flash point, so you can run the 5W and 0W viscosities without fear in hard working engines. No need for 10W oil use. So synthetic oils are superior, that's a fact. However....I don't live in Alaska or on the moon in a NASA lunar vehicle. I also have proper functioning cooling systems in all my cars. And I also change my oil in all my vehicles usually about every 6 months, or 5000 miles. I don't tow anything. So no extreme duty for my vehicles. And since I know many well maintained engines to last well over 200,000 miles with no repair, that used plain petroleum oils in manufacturers suggested viscosoty, I see no need for me to use synthetic oils. Although I have used them in the past in many of my vehicles. The last time in a 550 RWHP supercharged 98 Cobra without a A/A cooler. I needed synehrtic oil for that application . But it would be a waste of money for me to use synthetic oil in current vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mobil 1 has historically been a great product, but as mentioned about 2-3 years ago it started showing high iron readings in used oil analyses. Then along comes Valvoline and well, it adds up. In fact, ever since Exxon merged with Mobil the M1 line has been steadily cheapened with every major reformulation. Until I see that M1 actually passes Seq IVA, and starts showing iron wear on par with Pennzoil Platinum in UOAs, I will not be spending my money on M1. As far as people not using Pennzoil products, there is no reason to buy into that. Shell bought Pennzoil/QS in 2002 and they have been flawless operations ever since. Pennzoil is now essentially Shell's flagship oil line, good stuff. Even their yellow bottle conventional oil is one of the better conventional oils. By most accounts QS is identical to Pennzoil regarding bases, but with a bit weaker/cheaper additive packages. Agreed. PP is showing as good of results if not better than M1 these days. Pennzoil yellow bottle and motorcraft are equals from what I can tell. Run conventional and change it at 5K and you will be fine. Pick your brand as I dont think it matters. Walmart brand shows well in oil analysis. Personally, I like motorcraft and pennzoil but that is out of habit more than anything else. This entire conversation is over rated as long as you change your oil regularly. 3K intervals are a thing of the past and a huge waste of money. My friend owns a quick change oil place and changes his own oil when the GM oil life monitor goes off and that is around 7 or 8 k most of the time. This is on a GM 4.3 and it has 250K on it and he just dumps in what ever oil. He loves people who come back every 3K though. Speaking of which, I wish Ford would come up with something like the GM oil life monitor. That thing has proven to be reliable even with extreme mileage. The oil analysis prove it time and time again with all sorts of brands of oil. Why does Ford not offer something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Customer has the option of saying no thank you. Only one that gets screwed on safety inspections is the dealer tech that is doing it for free. Does the technician that finds the work not get to do the work? Brakes are a pretty sweet gig, and many need the fuel/air filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I use Motorcraft 5w20 oil and Motorcraft FL820S filter and change it every 3,000 miles myself. Independant testing has shown both to be excellent quality. Amazing how many people think Ford parts are not good enough for their Ford engine!? Oh, and about the mechanic who is trying to get "upsell" off of oil changes...just let him miss some problem anywhere on the vehicle while he has it in for that loss-leader oil change and see how fast the customer blames him, the department, the dealership, Ford Motor Co, ect...untill someone else pays for his repair "because you professionals should have seen that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMSA-XJR9 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id7.html Here is a site where the guy has disassembled filters with pictures and discussion for comparison purposes. The Motorcraft FL-820S, and Ford Racing version of it are quite different. The Ford Racing filter has more media and more filter pleats for even higher levels of protection. A real good site for all those "filter hawks" out there.... Thanks Twin! I knew there was a difference. I was told the FRPP maintains oil pressure better than the Motorcraft which is the leading factor in choosing to run it at certain times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I use Motorcraft 5w20 oil and Motorcraft FL820S filter and change it every 3,000 miles myself. Independant testing has shown both to be excellent quality. Amazing how many people think Ford parts are not good enough for their Ford engine!? Oh, and about the mechanic who is trying to get "upsell" off of oil changes...just let him miss some problem anywhere on the vehicle while he has it in for that loss-leader oil change and see how fast the customer blames him, the department, the dealership, Ford Motor Co, ect...untill someone else pays for his repair "because you professionals should have seen that." Motorcraft oil is made by conoco phillips. I cant remember who makes the filters but I think it might be wix?? Anyway, Ford does not make this stuff they only market it. I believe the oil is the same as Kendall Tropartic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Motorcraft 5W-20 is without a doubt the best oil for the money. And you can go much longer than 3K miles with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Use a synthetic blend oil...best of both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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