Critic Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 You know, reading what you have to say on the Climate thread lead me to believe you might be an idiot. Reading this, just proves that you are. Yes, the 6% of the total operating cost that goes to paying the employees is the problem. Please, take you head out of your ass. Too late. It's been shown that the Unions stepped up to the plate and did their part. The holdouts that caused the fillings where the banks once again.. Call it bondholders or what you want. Was actually very few small bondholders. But the banks seemed to have started all this , got a $750 Billion TARP, yet it's the ideas in peoples minds that it's all the unions faults. Hopefully Cerberus just lost their $7 Billion burn and flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Too late. It's been shown that the Unions stepped up to the plate and did their part. The holdouts that caused the fillings where the banks once again.. Call it bondholders or what you want. Was actually very few small bondholders. But the banks seemed to have started all this , got a $750 Billion TARP, yet it's the ideas in peoples minds that it's all the unions faults. Hopefully Cerberus just lost their $7 Billion burn and flip. Really? So you want to blame the banks (most of the big TARP-associated banks were actually on board with the debt swap - including Citi) for not wanting a god awful return on their investment? Heaven forbid they feel they might make out better under a bankruptcy than if they are forced to swap their debt for pennies on the dollar. Let's put the blame where it belongs: Chrysler's management. Pure and simple. It's not the union's fault - had they not made concessions, they would have filed much earler. It's not the banks fault - had they not loaned the money in the first place there would be no Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Basically, the Tarp-banks rolled over to government pressure -- they have bigger fish to fry. They "sacrificed" out of their own long term self interest. You know, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, right? The non-TARP holders basically said, "No way." Actually, what they really said was, "If its so damn important to you, then pay us a bunch of money and we'll walk away..." Chrysler really should be liquidated. Keeping them propped up is a misallocation of capital, and that will weaken Ford and GM, at a minimum. I understand the unemployment situation, but we're talking about 54,000 jobs. New claims this week were 630,000. The government could use a portion of the money they will pour into Chrysler for job retraining, etc. Would be cheap compared to the alternative. And, you would be strengthening Ford and GM through subtraction. Link. ? The company has burned through $4 billion since December. No reasonable person can believe Chrysler can stretch $6 billion indefinitely while supporting the capital investment needed to prepare the cars and the assembly plants to build Fiat cars in the United States. Given the risks, I cannot imagine any lender stepping up with new loans. So it's going to be the American taxpayer who shoulders this burden. As of this moment, the apparent winners are the secured debt holders. The secured lenders to Chrysler know the risks and although politics had to play a role in their decision to exit, they are getting cash. That is a victory for them compared to getting a 10 percent stake in a company that could ultimately be worthless whether through a future bankruptcy or dilution associated with future rounds of government largess. Their reluctance to take a stake in a Fiat-managed, United Auto Workers-controlled Chrysler makes sense. They would have no voice in the business, which will be operated for the benefit of Fiat and the UAW. This is an experiment that will challenge any lender now and in the future. The big investment banks made their big mistake in 2007 when they decided to underwrite the Chrysler financing and got stuck with the bonds when they couldn't unload them on investors. Chrysler's secured lenders figured out long ago that the company had no future as a stand-alone business and argued that the assets, which they could claim in bankruptcy, had value. They maintained that in bankruptcy the assets, especially the entire Jeep division, the minivans and the Dodge Ram had enough value to take the risk of bankruptcy. But a cash settlement is cleaner and allows them to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Basically, the Tarp-banks rolled over to government pressure -- they have bigger fish to fry. They "sacrificed" out of their own long term self interest. You know, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, right? The non-TARP holders basically said, "No way." Actually, what they really said was, "If its so damn important to you, then pay us a bunch of money and we'll walk away..." Chrysler really should be liquidated. Keeping them propped up is a misallocation of capital, and that will weaken Ford and GM, at a minimum. I understand the unemployment situation, but we're talking about 54,000 jobs. New claims this week were 630,000. The government could use a portion of the money they will pour into Chrysler for job retraining, etc. Would be cheap compared to the alternative. And, you would be strengthening Ford and GM through subtraction. Link. ? OMG, I'm going to agree with you... There said it! Yea... I'm not liking much of any of this.. all YOU and I can do is actually sit and watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Chrysler hopes to emerge from bankruptcy in 60 days........ Didn't the British expect WWI to be over with by Christmas, 1914? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I wonder how long it will take to go from chapter 11 to 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Really? So you want to blame the banks (most of the big TARP-associated banks were actually on board with the debt swap - including Citi) for not wanting a god awful return on their investment? Heaven forbid they feel they might make out better under a bankruptcy than if they are forced to swap their debt for pennies on the dollar. Let's put the blame where it belongs: Chrysler's management. Pure and simple. It's not the union's fault - had they not made concessions, they would have filed much earler. It's not the banks fault - had they not loaned the money in the first place there would be no Chrysler.Some of the blame should go on the current management, but most of the blame should fall on the Germans. Daimler took a profitable company and ran it into the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Some of the blame should go on the current management, but most of the blame should fall on the Germans. Daimler took a profitable company and ran it into the ground. I seriously wonder if this was even true...they where just getting fat off Truck and SUV sales like everyone else at the time and decided, hey lets make all our cool concept cars into reality while totally ignoring the low to mid end of the passenger sedan market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Now we will see if the world will end. In the long term, it will be the best for Chry.... and maybe of the other two...... in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well at least if you buy a Chrysler you know the US is standing behind the warranty. Hell maybe they are the best cars to buy at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 This is history in the making. Seeing the reuslt will be most illuminating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Those RWD, V8, LX cars were supposed to "save them"!!! Yeah right, and the 1960's are coming back. The cars before the Daimler buy out, LH, JX {Cloud}, and Neon cars were poor %$#@! quality, I dont care what Moapr geeks say. They just made crap. Never mind how pretty, stylish, or fast they were, they failed to stay running. Edited April 30, 2009 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) i give a huge round of applause to all those hedge funds...socialism from Obama be damned...way to go free market enterprise and its funny how Obama is mad that such hedge funds could actually hold out for more money....i will bet now chrysler will not emerge from bankruptcy in 60 days..and having washington run this company is going to be funny...square steering wheels and cars nobody wants are to follow...personally my heart goes out to all those workers be they UAW or not...in the end i dont see much hope for chrysler surviving..... ps: wait for lawsuits from dealers to follow soon..... Edited May 1, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 So have I read right that all production now stops until they emerge from Chapter 11? A few stories on line are discussing this. Ford must have known this was coming and therefore announced the production increase. It's a small window of opportunity so Ford better be ready to exploit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) So have I read right that all production now stops until they emerge from Chapter 11? A few stories on line are discussing this. Ford must have known this was coming and therefore announced the production increase. It's a small window of opportunity so Ford better be ready to exploit it. thats the understanding..60 days with no production...they may have 5% or less of US market share at the end..but who in there right mind would buy any mopar product?...not me..hell your dealer may shut down then what...drive 80 miles to the next dealer down the road..no thanks.....damn glad mulally is at ford..i knew he was the right guy...boeing cant even get a damn plane out since he left ps: canadian and mescaline plants are not effected (1 week shutdown)...means you can still get a chally ps: FIAT...fix it again tony...fiats are junk and we want those idiots running this...chrysler quality what little it had is going down even farther...me notta buy any chrysler product hence forth...another reason i only buy honda passenger cars...nuff said Edited May 1, 2009 by snooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i give a huge round of applause to all those hedge funds...socialism from osama be damned...way to go free market enterprise and its funny how osama is mad that such hedge funds could actually hold out for more money....i will bet now chrysler will not emerge from bankruptcy in 60 days..and having washington run this company is going to be funny...square steering wheels and cars nobody wants are to follow...personally my heart goes out to all those workers be they UAW or not...in the end i dont see much hope for chrysler surviving..... ps: wait for lawsuits from dealers to follow soon..... It's spelled Obama......snotter If you think your being funny don't quit your day job. Your attempt at political whimsy is lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I will say that Chrysler is a company that can't go away fast enough. They are the everlasting and everpresent image of the stereotypical "American Car Company" that Ford and GM (somewhat) are trying to be less of. Their products are garbage, their quality is horrible, their styling is obnoxious, and their safety is despicable. The longer Chrysler is around and keeps reminding people of that horrible image, the harder it is going to be for Ford and GM to shake that image. I can't see Chryslers quality or reliability going up either, Italian cars are garbage. Ever watch Top Gear when they make fun of Alfa Romeos because of their lack of quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Ford Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes, the 6% of the total operating cost that goes to paying the employees is the problem. Please, take you head out of your ass. Total costs aren't the problem with unions, marginal costs are. Having higher costs per output (directly proportional to labor) than a competotor puts a company at a huge disadvantage, both in profits and total sales. That said, after the concessions labor costs are very competitive and a lot more had to go wrong than unions for Chrysler to go bankrunpt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 So what does this mean for the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealers? Business as usual? How do the service departments get their warranty claims taken care of? Warranty money is a big chunk of a Chrysler dealers business. Chrysler was a poorly run fucked up company years before this...Its gonna get really bad now :titanic: :fan: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thomas old boy...where ya been?? Sounds like you are now at a ChryCo dealership?? How is that working out for ya?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i give a huge round of applause to all those hedge funds...socialism from Obama be damned...way to go free market enterprise and its funny how Obama is mad that such hedge funds could actually hold out for more money....i will bet now chrysler will not emerge from bankruptcy in 60 days..and having washington run this company is going to be funny...square steering wheels and cars nobody wants are to follow...personally my heart goes out to all those workers be they UAW or not...in the end i dont see much hope for chrysler surviving..... ps: wait for lawsuits from dealers to follow soon..... Thanks Richard for "fixing" snooters spelling....I won't comment on his rambling diatribe except for the last part...there will be no lawsuits, thank you bankruptcy codes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Day one: Dealerships still open... Fed to back the Lifetime Warranty... Many plants still running production.. First mod will be in the JEEP line... An optional "wine chiller" will be offered. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thomas old boy...where ya been?? Sounds like you are now at a ChryCo dealership?? How is that working out for ya?? I was for a few months... they closed after 30+ years in business. Not enough sales. I also worked at one for a couple of years before. Now I work at a used car place-lots of junks to fix but hey at least its work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks Richard for "fixing" snooters spelling....I won't comment on his rambling diatribe except for the last part...there will be no lawsuits, thank you bankruptcy codes.... No lawsuits, but enough claims to seriously gum up the Ch. 11 process. I have, directly and indirectly, only three Chrysler franchises as clients, and none of them are standalones. One is dualed and the other two are paired with other franchises at different locations. Most of my new car clients are Ford dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hate to break the news to you, but the judge will probably use the agreement that the members just voted on. most likely. workers have already shown they are prepared to share the pain to see it work out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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