Ford Delays Diesel for F-150

[mackinaw]

From today's Automotive News, article by Amy Wilson:

 

"Ford had said it would sell a diesel F-150 beginning in 2010. Last spring, dealers were shown a 4.4-liter V-8 diesel said to deliver more power and torque than the F-150's 5.4-liter gasoline V-8 and offer a 20 percent fuel savings.

 

But last fall, with diesel and gasoline prices sliding from a summer peak above $4 per gallon, Ford officials said they would delay the introduction.

 

No new date has been scheduled, Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, told Automotive News late last month.

 

"We're still looking at the appropriate time to do that," Fields said. "We've put it on the back burner for right now."

 

"One industry source familiar with Ford's product plans said the diesel F-150 has officially been delayed until 2013. But it will likely be canceled outright unless diesel prices fall substantially below gasoline for a prolonged period..."

[jpd80]

Sad but not unexpected.

I wonder if Ford has considered exporting the diesel F150/250

to the rest of the world as the next truck up from Thai Ranger?

 

I remember we used to get right hand drive F250 in Australia until late 2007,

I think they came from South America..

[Blue II]

Sad but not unexpected.

I wonder if Ford has considered exporting the diesel F150/250

to the rest of the world as the next truck up from Thai Ranger?

 

I remember we used to get right hand drive F250 in Australia until late 2007,

I think they came from South America..

 

Some want the 4.4 to replace the Cummins in the SOA Super Duty.

[jpd80]

Some want the 4.4 to replace the Cummins in the SOA Super Duty.

Now that would be nice, I wonder if it is possible due to recent events with Chrysler.

Maybe Cummins aren't in contract any more with anyone, that might sharpen their price....

Edited May 4, 2009 by jpd80

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Well, to get some payback on all the R&D that was done on the engine, its a shame that it can't be produced and used at least somewhere in the world. Maybe it could spur a good international market for the F-150?

[ironhorse]

Ford has lost it's credibility with the diesel customer. It would take an absolute bullet proof diesel engine.

Dealers has begged for a diesel F150 for almost 10 years. Day late, dollar short.

[92merc]

Ford has lost it's credibility with the diesel customer. It would take an absolute bullet proof diesel engine.

Dealers has begged for a diesel F150 for almost 10 years. Day late, dollar short.

Yeah, like there are currently any diesels to compete with in the 1/2 ton market. So "late" and "short" don't apply to a currently non-existent market.

 

Not that I'm disputing Ford should have this 4.4 produced. Personally, even if diesel is the same price as gas, I know of a lot of 1/2 owners that would jump all over a diesel.

[LSFan00]

F150 share and sales are just going to shoot up over the next year (from today's baseline.) Should just hold with the 5.4 I guess. I thought they'd already spent to tool up the 4.4 plant, so it's a little mystifying, though.

[jpd80]

Maybe when gas prices eased, it was cheaper to go the 6.2 V8,

remembering diesel NOX emission gear like Bluetec is not cheap.

[ironhorse]

Yeah, like there are currently any diesels to compete with in the 1/2 ton market. So "late" and "short" don't apply to a currently non-existent market.

 

Not that I'm disputing Ford should have this 4.4 produced. Personally, even if diesel is the same price as gas, I know of a lot of 1/2 owners that would jump all over a diesel.

 

 

 

It's called being a leader...not a follower....Ford should have been the first to the party. I think there is a huge market for a 1/2 ton diesel...however I think Ford thinks a diesel 150 would cannibalize Super duty sales.

[Michael Reynolds]

It's called being a leader...not a follower....Ford should have been the first to the party. I think there is a huge market for a 1/2 ton diesel...however I think Ford thinks a diesel 150 would cannibalize Super duty sales.

 

I'd rather Ford finalize development of the new V-8 and get it in there vs. spending money on an engine that has a strong chance of having a very limited appeal. Not defending Ford's decision, but how do you know whether or not there is a huge market for a 1/2 ton diesel?

 

We're not out of this financial crisis just yet, and Ford isn't in the black.

[chevys]

Ford has lost it's credibility with the diesel customer. It would take an absolute bullet proof diesel engine.

Dealers has begged for a diesel F150 for almost 10 years. Day late, dollar short.

 

I agree. Its 10 years too late and Fords diesel engines have been crappy. Too many problems and with the extra cost I would not touch one with a ten foot pole. No way you can make a business case for them. Just get a F250 and be done with it. They dont cost hardly anymore anyway.

[Devodev]

I'd rather Ford finalize development of the new V-8 and get it in there vs. spending money on an engine that has a strong chance of having a very limited appeal. Not defending Ford's decision, but how do you know whether or not there is a huge market for a 1/2 ton diesel?

 

We're not out of this financial crisis just yet, and Ford isn't in the black.

 

 

I agree. Can't be too hard on them as every one else cancelled their programs for the same reason. You just can't afford to lead much of anything in this environment and everybody is being conservative until they know people are ready to spend money on their products.

[ironhorse]

Ford would have Billions more in cash,and Thousands more customers if it wasn't for the 6.0/6.4 diesel debacle.

[focus05]

The 6.7 is a higher priority with the Navistar contract ending. I suspect that we could see the 4.4 in the Super Duty, E-series/Transit and maybe large SUVs sooner than the F-150. The F-150's 3.5 Ecoboost is going to give diesels a run for their money - for a lot less green upfront. That same 3.5 might not work as well in the E-series or Super Duty applications. However, a 5.0 Ecoboost might, again, for a lot less upfront.

 

Diesel is just not a viable long-term solution in the U.S. without a major technological innovation given our desire for low NOx emissions. It either works in very small cars where the cost of cleaning is lower or in very large vehicles (HD, Semi, some MD apps) applications where the trade-off between emissions and mileage are weighted far more heavily towards mileage.

 

I'm sorry that's reality. But, frankly, I think it is the right approach. And if we find a way to magically clean diesel for $2k-$5k less per vehicle (depending on size), then diesel is viable - but it just isn't right now except in luxury applications where people don't care how much money they are spending.

[94bronco]

Ford would have Billions more in cash,and Thousands more customers if it wasn't for the 6.0/6.4 diesel debacle.

Yup, One of my neighbors had a 97 7.3 that went like a timex for 200k before he bought an 05 6.0 that was a pile of crap so now he's driving a Duramax.

[Deanh]

The 6.7 is a higher priority with the Navistar contract ending. I suspect that we could see the 4.4 in the Super Duty, E-series/Transit and maybe large SUVs sooner than the F-150. The F-150's 3.5 Ecoboost is going to give diesels a run for their money - for a lot less green upfront. That same 3.5 might not work as well in the E-series or Super Duty applications. However, a 5.0 Ecoboost might, again, for a lot less upfront.

 

Diesel is just not a viable long-term solution in the U.S. without a major technological innovation given our desire for low NOx emissions. It either works in very small cars where the cost of cleaning is lower or in very large vehicles (HD, Semi, some MD apps) applications where the trade-off between emissions and mileage are weighted far more heavily towards mileage.

 

I'm sorry that's reality. But, frankly, I think it is the right approach. And if we find a way to magically clean diesel for $2k-$5k less per vehicle (depending on size), then diesel is viable - but it just isn't right now except in luxury applications where people don't care how much money they are spending.

+1...for the 7k expected for the 6.4 upgrade one has to question if there is a viable alternative...wonder if anyone has pursued a LARGER hybrid powertrain...hell would seem to make sense...after all 100% torque avail at ZERO revs with BETTER fuel economy and potentiallly lower MSRPS would have the towers running to sign the bottom line....at least in theory

[Michael Reynolds]

Ford would have Billions more in cash,and Thousands more customers if it wasn't for the 6.0/6.4 diesel debacle.

 

Nope. They wouldn't....

[F250]

The reason given for Ford completely screwing up the F-150's style is that they needed the huge grille to cool the upcoming diesel engine option.

 

Now no diesel.

 

Can we have the good looking front end back?

[silvrsvt]

The reason given for Ford completely screwing up the F-150's style is that they needed the huge grille to cool the upcoming diesel engine option.

 

Now no diesel.

 

Can we have the good looking front end back?

 

And how much different is the current F-150 then the older gen? Not much...

[ironhorse]

Nope. They wouldn't....

 

 

How much do you think Ford has paid in Warranty claims on the 6.0/6.4? How much market share has Ford lost to Dodge and Chevy over the last 5 years? I know for a fact my super duty sales are more than half of what they were before the 6.0 debacle that not only equates to lost SD sales,but lost customers to the brand period....add it up.

[theoldwizard]

Well, to get some payback on all the R&D that was done on the engine, its a shame that it can't be produced and used at least somewhere in the world. Maybe it could spur a good international market for the F-150?

Much of the R&D was done in very close conjunction with the new 6.7L so you can't say that money is "lost".

 

I'm not certain how much of the block/head tooling can be shared between those 2 engines. (Tooling orders went out a few years ago and included sufficient tooling for both engines.)

[twintornados]

Much of the R&D was done in very close conjunction with the new 6.7L so you can't say that money is "lost".

 

I'm not certain how much of the block/head tooling can be shared between those 2 engines. (Tooling orders went out a few years ago and included sufficient tooling for both engines.)

You aren't certain?? Maybe it is because you have a Twin I Beam suspension system clogging your block/head.

[theoldwizard]

...How much do you think Ford has paid in Warranty claims on the 6.0/6.4? ...

Warranty on the 6.4L is a fraction of what it was during the "hay day" of the 6.0L ! The number of 6.0L SD that Ford bought back under "lemon laws" was INCREDIBLE ! Power and fuel economy on the 6.4L never met "objectives".

 

The only good thing I can say about the the 6.0L is that when it worked, it worked pretty well (not as good as the old 7.3L). That and it was the "lever" that Ford used to get out of their exclusive contract with Navistar 2 years early.

[twintornados]

That and it was the "lever" that Ford used

I'll bet it was shaped like a Twin I Beam made from pablum.