Truck Shoot Out by Edmunds

[SVT_MAN]

The test was probably a bit unfair, but, nonetheless, Ford needs a new engine. Period. Even if the Ford F-150 is a better truck in EVERY other regard, the 5.4L engine just isn't competitive anymore. People who are acting like that isn't the case are in denial. I do not agree with over driving your truck, as Extreme 4x4 was mentioning, but trucks are a lot about bragging rights - like it or not.

 

I basically feel the same way about the Mustang too. I mean, the Mustang is a great car, great platform .. now where's the juice? My entire life, Ford has been behind in the horsepower wars it seems. (I'm 22.) I'd like to see a day where Ford focuses on Total Performance once again. I know they CAN do it - but will they? The Fusion got my hopes up with its great powertrains, but products like the F-150 and Mustang, Ford's bread and butter, seem to be ahead everywhere EXCEPT powertrain.

[twintornados]

While I will always be loyal to Ford....in my opinion, "only" 310 HP from the 5.4 Triton is plenty for 99% of the truck buying public....but....when Dodge, Chevrolet, and Toyota all have motors with more omph, and "bitch slaps" the F150 all over the test range...it hurts. I want Ford to build a truck with class leading power to go along with the class leading chassis, transmission, advanced electronic controls, etc etc etc....

[RichardJensen]

I think the 362hp 3v V10 would have won the bragging rights, and should have been included on the HD F150 option list all along.

Except those last two cylinders would have to double as cupholders. Also the 6.8's NVH is pretty bad. THAT would be what the rags would rag on if it came in the F150.

 

-

 

For all the 'needs new engine' noise:

 

I think I'll say the decisions made by the company that isn't on the dole and still has the best selling line of trucks are better than the decisions of "buy a car, get a check" and "buy our trucks or Howie will make fun of you."

[Extreme4x4]

While I will always be loyal to Ford....in my opinion, "only" 310 HP from the 5.4 Triton is plenty for 99% of the truck buying public....but....when Dodge, Chevrolet, and Toyota all have motors with more omph, and "bitch slaps" the F150 all over the test range...it hurts. I want Ford to build a truck with class leading power to go along with the class leading chassis, transmission, advanced electronic controls, etc etc etc....

 

 

Ok................. lets say we get our 360-400hp. We will still have the heaviest truck, so it will still be a slower truck.

 

So, now do we need 450hp, to be able to "brag" that our heavier F150 can finally outrun the others 400-420hp trucks??

 

This is absurd. Get the 6.2 in the Raptor. Make it as an option for the 5 people who will buy one in their Platinum.................. so they can go have a penis measuring contest with their neighbors............... and let the rest of us understand what the best truck really is.

 

A test by Edmunds (Edmunds, who just realized that people actually buy trucks to sometimes tow something). Good grief. Nobody remembers pickuptruck.com doing that same test, and the results were very different................... do we. Nobody remembers the reason the F150 won that test, do they??? Hmmm............... could it be because it was the best "truck?"

 

BTW, RJ, I do not know of the NVH problems, with the 6.8. Mine is smooth, powerful, and sounds great (especially now that it is loosening up a bit). BTW, I do not expect my 7500+lb truck, with its big ol V10, to be a sportscar. It moves well for what it is, .............. a heavy work truck.

[RichardJensen]

BTW, RJ, I do not know of the NVH problems, with the 6.8. Mine is smooth, powerful, and sounds great (especially now that it is loosening up a bit). BTW, I do not expect my 7500+lb truck, with its big ol V10, to be a sportscar. It moves well for what it is, .............. a heavy work truck.

Buddy of mine owns an Expedition. I asked him if it was a diesel. Never been around one that idled smooth (they're not an even firing engine)--in the cab at highway speeds they may be fine, but they're not pleasant to listen to under certain circumstances, and you can bet the rags would play that up as though it means something.

[joihan777]

Do ya'll think Ford will ever make a small, efficient V8 that is capable of getting Ecoboosted? (Would adding another 2 cylinders to the Cyclone V6 make sense?)

 

Or can the 5.0 Coyote (guessing ~ 400hp) handle Ecoboosting? That would make the engine quite flexible across the product line.

 

Also, does the "optional 3.73:1 rear axle ratio" have any bearing on the results?

Edited May 5, 2009 by joihan777

[RangerM]

I would like to see how this batch of trucks would compare to a batch of the same trucks from 1989. Only reason I mention this really is because people expect far too much from a "half ton" pickup anymore. The F-150 is doing now what F-250's and higher were only capable of doing some time ago. Okay, so the F-150 isn't the fastest of the bunch. But it's still a ridiculously over-capable vehicle in both towing and acceleration compared to what half ton trucks used to represent. The entire segment has gone overboard. Ford only fails at not going as overboard as everyone else under the hood.

+1

 

I'm not sure that the engine is as underpowered, as much as the F-150 is over-sized and over-capable.

 

If there really is such a thing as an F-100, it can't get here soon enough for me. I just hope if there really is one, it isn't a Ridgeline clone.

[twintornados]

.................. so they can go have a penis measuring contest with their neighbors...............

eh heh...eh heh...eh heh....she said penis

[silvrsvt]

I basically feel the same way about the Mustang too. I mean, the Mustang is a great car, great platform .. now where's the juice?

 

Can I ask WTF are you smoking? The GT has 310 HP and keeps up with the Camcrapmo and Challenger fine...then if that isn't enough, you can get a GT500 with 540HP...where else can you get a car for under 50K with that much power?

 

The 2010 is more then competitive with the other pony cars out there and when the 5L gets in it next year, it won't be a even a contest...

[suv_guy_19]

Buddy of mine owns an Expedition.

 

?

[Anthony]

I have a FREE recommendation for all the truck makers that would solve all their problems.

 

Stop try to out-advertise the next guy with these ridiculous tow ratings and remember its a friggin half ton truck.

[Anthony]

?

 

I'm sure he meant Excursion.

[fordmantpw]

I'm sure he meant Excursion.

 

I was thinking the same thing, as the Expedition doesn't have the V10 or a diesel.

[silvrsvt]

I have a FREE recommendation for all the truck makers that would solve all their problems.

 

Stop try to out-advertise the next guy with these ridiculous tow ratings and remember its a friggin half ton truck.

 

Its called competition, same reason why we have 265hp+ V6 engines in a 4 door Sedan.

[Anthony]

Its called competition, same reason why we have 265hp+ V6 engines in a 4 door Sedan.

 

Well, then I can see it now....

 

2018 Ford F-150

• 27" wheels
  
• 12 foot retractable bed
  
• Can tow 24,000 lbs
  
• Sync Version 8.6 (can read your thoughts)
  
• 215 hp V8 (ok, I threw that one in there )
  

[RichardJensen]

Yeah, I meant Excursion.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

HAving driven an E-350 extended length work van with the 2V V-10 thousands of miles in my life, I can tell you, that engine can get loud (granted, that's a functionf of the total lack of sound deadening in that beast). ITs also got a small mountain of torque and more than enough HP to scoot that monster down the road. I have no idea if it could fit in the F-150s engine bay well enough for mass production, however.

 

When you compare the 5.4L to any version of the GM 5.3L, its no contest. The 5.4L kills it in so many ways. Just as the 3V 4.6L destroys the GM 4.8L Ford doesn't offer an engine in the class with the other trucks. They have options available to them if they WANT to, like the V-10 and the supercharged 5.4L. They just choose not to.

[V8-X]

I would like to see how this batch of trucks would compare to a batch of the same trucks from 1989. Only reason I mention this really is because people expect far too much from a "half ton" pickup anymore. The F-150 is doing now what F-250's and higher were only capable of doing some time ago. Okay, so the F-150 isn't the fastest of the bunch. But it's still a ridiculously over-capable vehicle in both towing and acceleration compared to what half ton trucks used to represent. The entire segment has gone overboard. Ford only fails at not going as overboard as everyone else under the hood.

Nick: Right there with you. I've owned an '80 F150 4.9L 4x4, '02 F150 5.4L 4x4 and now an '06 F150 5.4L 4x4. Each one of those have jumped significantly in capability and power over the previous models, as well as weight. I do not know exactly how the manufacturers can continue to call these 1/2 ton turcks anymore, when they truly don't fit in that category any longer. Then again the 3/4 & 1 tons are also reaching outside their true definition as well.

 

I truly don't know why everyone is so much in need of this so called "power", other than for bragging rights or because they are trying to compensate for something. Thinking about it, the Tundra 5.7L, Titan 5.6L, Ram 5.7L and Silverado/Sierra 6.0L/6.2L sales are a fraction of the F150 5.4L sales figure, even though they are all priced roughly the same. That right there shows you the "majority" of people could care less about these 0-60 times when purchasing a truck, they'll take less hp/lb-ft for the better built vehicle. So even though I agree with most everyone here that Ford needs some new powerplants under the hood of the F150, this shouldn't be Fords sole focus. Heck look at Toyota/Tundra for example. For decades Toyota was dogged about their motor performance, but had excellent quality. I won't call them underpowered motors, just not as powerful. Now look at Toyota, as they start to put more powerful motors into their vehicles, they are becoming less reliable and corners are being cut on quality.And while the F150 still has the least powerful optional motor, they are improving drastically in quality/reliability.

 

I'm there with Extreme4x4. Living in CO, we have quite a few mountains passes which my truck seems to tow 6K lbs with ease over. I've done these trips many times, even with friends that have a 5.3L Silverado and another with 5.7L Tundra CrewMax (this friend used to own a Ram QC 5.7L) and we have yet to haul our loads at WOT, whether on flat land, inclines or declines. Under normal driving/towing conditions, I have able to keep up with any of them without breaking a sweat. Sure if we were dragging, I may end up last, but why would you do this in 1) a truck and 2) while towing a 6K+ lbs load? I have yet to have a problem with inclined on-ramps while towing, passing on flat or inclined surfaces, and any other "normal" driving/towing conditions. I've seen too many fried trannies and roll overs from people trying to be speed racer in their trucks with a load behind them.

 

These drag race like competitions aren't strictly for the F150, but also the 250/350. Can't remember if it was pickuptrucks.com or edmunds or whatever rag did the review, but the 250/350 with the 6.4L and I think even the 6.8L came in last against the comperable Silverdo (6.6L) and Ram (6.7L). And like the F150, the 250/350 was also the heaviest of the bunch.

 

So are people here saying they'd take and inferior truck over a better truck, just so you could drag race with or without a load behind you faster? Or would you prefer the slower but better built and safer (features & rating) and can tow just as much, just not as fast rig? Me, the speed in a truck does nothing for me, so I'll go with #2, especially since I have 3 kids. If I want speed, I'll drive the wifes car around.

[mettech]

Maybe the next F-150 should be a "true" 1/2 ton. Or is that roll being filled by the Ranger?

[Sixt9coug]

Maybe the next F-150 should be a "true" 1/2 ton. Or is that roll being filled by the Ranger?

 

 

My Ranger will hold 1500 lbs in the bed or tow 5700lbs behind it. so...... yeah technically.

[packardbob]

These drag race like competitions aren't strictly for the F150, but also the 250/350. Can't remember if it was pickuptrucks.com or edmunds or whatever rag did the review, but the 250/350 with the 6.4L and I think even the 6.8L came in last against the comperable Silverdo (6.6L) and Ram (6.7L). And like the F150, the 250/350 was also the heaviest of the bunch.

 

I remember reading a shootout of the 3/4 ton gasser trucks in some outdoor magazine, something like Boat Pulling mag, I dont remember for sure, and the V-10 ate the other two up. They even made sure to include how much the trucks they used weighed. The Ford weighed almost 1100 lbs more than either the Dodge or the Chevy, they had to weigh it twice to make sure. I guess it depends on how the test is done or perhaps who does it (or who has the biggest advertising budget) Anyway thats besides the point. In 1990 shortly after Chevy redesigned their trucks to look a bit more modern, within a few months of each other my uncle bought a brand new 1/2 ton with a 350 and our neighbor bought a used Dodge with a 360. My dad bought a used, 89 I think, Ford with a 300. The 300 slowed down a bit going up steep long hills and sometimes couldnt pull as quick as the other two nor did it sound as cool as the other two did through straight pipes. My dad caught crap about this everytime he hooked a trailer up to that truck.

 

Anyway the 350 crapped out at 97,000, was rebuilt and went sour again after about 80,000 more miles. The Dodge had new transmissions at around 80,000 and again at 140,000, along with having the front and rear axles rebuilt at roughly 100,000 miles (went in for the front and was told the rear was grinding itself to bits) and the 360 went bad right after having the transmission fixed the second time. Needless to say they only had their pickups for about 8 years. My dad still has his Ford and still pulls with the original engine and transmission. That pickup is pushing up towards 300,000 miles now and still runs pretty damn good. Who got the better deal? It depends doesnt it. If you want a work truck, get a Ford.

 

By the way, has anybody ever towed with a 5.3GM or a 5.7 HEMI? I've towed with both for work, so it's on a somewhat limited basis. The 5.3 is a turd plain and simple and the brakes were really mushy. The Dodge was better but it seemed to me you have to rev the crap out of it to get any power out of it, not very characteristic of a good truck engine. Im probably just being biased aren't I? Oh well.

[V8-X]

Maybe the next F-150 should be a "true" 1/2 ton. Or is that roll being filled by the Ranger?

I'm sure the Ranger holds it's own in true 1/2 ton capabilities. Also, we'll never see the F150 go backwards, think that's why Ford was looking at releasing the F100 for a while. The public would be outraged if Ford decided to go backwards with the F150 and put it back into the true 1/2 ton class, while all other makes are getting bigger, with larger motors and increased capacities.

 

By the way, has anybody ever towed with a 5.3GM or a 5.7 HEMI? I've towed with both for work, so it's on a somewhat limited basis. The 5.3 is a turd plain and simple and the brakes were really mushy. The Dodge was better but it seemed to me you have to rev the crap out of it to get any power out of it, not very characteristic of a good truck engine. Im probably just being biased aren't I? Oh well.

Actually from my experience with friends and family, this statement is fairly true. The 5.3L is not a very good tow motor, heck look at the hp/lb-ft split and where it's peak torque is hit at. That to me looks like a more sports car (Camaro) type setup, not the best for towing. And I've experienced the same with the 04-08 5.7L HEMI. It's gutless towing with the RPMs down low, so you have to rev em pretty high to get to the lb-ft sweet spot. The HEMI isn't the greatest getting the load moving, but once it is and the RPMS are up there, it does tow fairly well. Have no experience with the '09 5.7L HEMI, yet.

[fordmantpw]

I have towed 5500-6500 lbs with my '05 F150 and my '99 F150, both 5.4L, and I have never even had the pedal to the floor. I have no trouble maintaining speed. Sure, it drops some on the hills, but that is to be expected when towing as much as your truck weighs. I pick up a little extra speed before I get to the hill and it does fine. Would it be nice to have more power? Sure. Is it needed? Only to keep up with the Jones's.

[lfeg]

I think the marketshare numbers tell the true story. Despite its shortcomings, the F150 is the package that is the most popular one.

 

For the next generation Ford needs to get the weight down (up until the late 90s Fords used to have the best payload to curb weight and towing capacity to curb weight ratios around) and have reasonable power on tap.

[chevys]

A lot of good points made here. I remember a test somewhere (ill try to find it) with the Ford 5.4 and chevy 5.3 and the Ford and Chebby were just about even towing and everything else. So no, I dont think the 5. 4 is superior in anyway and I personally will be glad to see it go by by. Everybody talks about the low end torque it has but I would still like to see it and a 5.3 dynoed back to back to really find out. It may have a flatter torque curve but no by much I bet.