soupy Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/compa...rce=yahoo_quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 We are already discussing this in the Automotive "Off Topic" discussion thread... Why should we have two threads of this anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Considering most of the people that own vehicles like this do not have the money to make payments on a new vehicle I see it having little effect. The only people it will benefit is people who have some money and an old second or third vehicle that they would like to trade off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 We are already discussing this in the Automotive "Off Topic" discussion thread... Why should we have two threads of this anyway? No we don't, but that being the case provide a link next time. http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=32045 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 One of my clients idea was "Hmmm, my current car doesn't qualify as a clunker because it's only 4 years old, BUT I could go and buy one for like $250, and use that as a trade in to get the credit"... Supposedly his mother has this vehicle rotting in her back yard, that is used for emergencies only, so he's asking her for it to trade it in if this passes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupy Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 One of my clients idea was "Hmmm, my current car doesn't qualify as a clunker because it's only 4 years old, BUT I could go and buy one for like $250, and use that as a trade in to get the credit"... Supposedly his mother has this vehicle rotting in her back yard, that is used for emergencies only, so he's asking her for it to trade it in if this passes.... Then someone who wasn't planning on buying a new car will buy one from some manufacturer who wasn't gonna sell one. Could help save GM. I bet Obama and the Dems push this hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupy Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Considering most of the people that own vehicles like this do not have the money to make payments on a new vehicle I see it having little effect. The only people it will benefit is people who have some money and an old second or third vehicle that they would like to trade off. OK, so thats only millions and millons of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 OK, so thats only millions and millons of people. Analysts predict that over the ONE year the program will be in effect will result in about 1 million extra sales. Since Ford has about 16% of market, Ford should be able to sell about 160,000 extra vehicles it wouldn't have sold without program. That comes out to about 13,000 extra sales/month. Add it up and that would be a lot extra revenue which could keep Ford going for another year withiout bailout money. Whatever helps. It's all about survival now and not abouit global warming in my mind. When you think about it, the economy is so weak right now that far less carbon is going into air than anything the government could do to reduce it. The environmentalists should be happy with the rising unemployment rate and new construction dead in water. Global warming is the least of our problems right now with Chrysler dead in water, and GM shutting down for summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 My cousin just got rid of his beater '91 Lumina for a super clean '04 LS V-6. The Lumina was a driver so he wouldn't have to drive his Yukon Denali to work when gas was $4/gal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 It is my understanding that you have to trade the clunker in for one with better MPG. I would be interested in maybe trading in our '02 Grand Prix for a Mercury or Lincoln. But the only car they have with better MPG is a CD3 platform and they are not made in the USA.!!! Will the dealership use the '02 GP MPG sticker (19/29/23) or the EPA conversion (17/27/20)? I'm not sure that this program will help Ford that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Analysts predict that over the ONE year the program will be in effect will result in about 1 million extra sales. Extra sales of WHAT exactly? Ford makes (most of its) profits on trucks. How many Ford trucks get 2 mpg (EPA Combined) more than their predecessors, in order to qualify for the minimum credit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss96racing Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 well my '01 cavalier has 228,000 miles and am waiting for this to pass so I can pick up a new fusion. I was looking around the other day and found a few different proposals for how to work this program. Seems like rules aren't anywhere close to nailed down yet, if they don't make it to restrictive it can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 It is my understanding that you have to trade the clunker in for one with better MPG. I would be interested in maybe trading in our '02 Grand Prix for a Mercury or Lincoln. But the only car they have with better MPG is a CD3 platform and they are not made in the USA.!!! Will the dealership use the '02 GP MPG sticker (19/29/23) or the EPA conversion (17/27/20)? I'm not sure that this program will help Ford that much. I would say the latter (17/27/20) to equalize different EPA systems. In that instance, you might be in with a chance for a 2010 Taurus, that would be OK.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Bill proponents have pointed to programs in Europe, especially in Germany, where auto sales increased dramatically after the country enacted a program to subsidize purchase of new cars by scrapping clunkers that are at least 9 years old. However, emissions standards on new cars throughout Europe are tougher than American standards. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) WTF? The only sticking point is NOX on diesels - everything else is equal or better. The Europeans are miles ahead in fuel economy and by inference CO2 output. Edited May 6, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The sidebar of this article explains the rules that are being sought on the subject... LINK-Detroit News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) The sidebar of this article explains the rules that are being sought on the subject... LINK-Detroit News I assume the MPG is combined... If that is the case, I'm screwed since my '02 GP is 17/27/20. Or does the guide mean city MPG? P.S. That's not a picture of a 2010 they have there. Edited May 6, 2009 by mettech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupy Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 'Cash for guzzlers' compromise praised House bill offers up to $4,500 to trade in fuel-thirsty autos Gordon Trowbridge / Detroit News Washington Bureau Washington -- A compromise by House Democrats on "cash for guzzlers" legislation to boost auto sales won praise from Michigan lawmakers and the domestic carmakers Tuesday. But, the legislation leaves out "buy-American" incentives Michigan officials had sought and could become entangled in the contentious debate over climate change legislation. Michigan lawmakers of both parties said they hoped the House would consider the measure separately from a climate-change bill, which may not come to a vote for months. The agreement, announced at the White House after House Democrats met with President Barack Obama, Certainly seems as though this version of the CFGuzz bill is mainly Dem sponsored. Could the say no Republicans possibly not vote yes for this? Especially two Republican Senators from Alabama. Alabama having major auto manufacturing operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The government basically wants to force people to buy smaller, unsafe cars PLAIN AND SIMPLE and they'll do anything, or try any gimmick to trick people into FINANCING these new vehicles. Hey, people in this country are so easily fooled to begin with. Especially when they don't tell people the overall higher costs built-in with them (insurance, repairs, etc...) In the long term, this won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I can see this being beneficial for those who were planning to buy a new car anyway, assuming they qualify for a tax credit. It might convince those on the fence or those who didn't want to spend the money until later to pull the trigger now. I don't think it will convince someone who can't afford a new car to buy one anyway, or at least I hope not. That's one of the reasons we are in this mess in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) It will be a boom followed by a bust, second hand car dealers & will go bust as nobody will touch their nearly new cars, they will be stuck with cars that they only can sell at a loss. Ford dealer will be stuck with second hand trade in cars from folk that don't qualify for scheme cars nobody will touch because they will be to overpriced. Folk that are driving 10 year old clunkers will get themselfs into a new kind type of subprime car debt, all scrappage scheme costs paid with tax-payers money and added tax debt somewhere in the not to distant future to pay back with the other trillions owed & most of the UK taxpayers scrappage money will end up in Japan, Germany & France as next to nobody driving a 10+ year old Jag or Land Rover "Clunker" will be able to afford to buy a new one. Southamptons Transit plant that Ford are running down to close sometime in the near future to move production to a cheap & chearful Turkey don't qualify for scrappage money in the UK. Will Pick-ups & Vans in the US qualify? Or will it just be used to protect mainly Jap ricers & Mexican Fusion car making jobs? Gotta say l hope Obama bends the rules and has a scrappage scheme that helps support the Detroit car worker building big 3 cars 100% and the Japanese car makers 0% and as little as possible. Edited May 7, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldZephyr Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The government basically wants to force people to buy smaller, unsafe cars PLAIN AND SIMPLE ...... Well, when all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail . . . . Is the Fusion, which gets 23/34, a smaller, unsafe car? Maybe check with the IIHS on that Is the Taurus (which at 18/28/ (22 combined) should qualify under the program as well) a smaller, unsafe car? Maybe check with IIHS on that. Bottom line is that most mainline cars get at least 22MPG combined these days, and most are far more safe and efficient than cars just 5 years ago. PS I'm not a fan of this program, but the above comment by Bored of Pisteon isn't supported by the facts. Almost any new midsize or full size sedan will be safer than what would be traded in under the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The Europeans are miles ahead in fuel economy and by inference CO2 output. Last time I checked MPG wasn't a measure of emissions :P Still lots of talk about regulating CO2 output from cars in the States, but personally its not worth the hot hair that it actually is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeje Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 We have a Scrap It program in British Columbia that works on CO2 emmisions. Max back is $2250.00 You can check it out, complete with calculator for what you are trading in against what you are purchasing. Link: http://www.scrapit.ca/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 The government basically wants to force people to buy smaller, unsafe cars PLAIN AND SIMPLE and they'll do anything, or try any gimmick to trick people into FINANCING these new vehicles. Hey, people in this country are so easily fooled to begin with. Especially when they don't tell people the overall higher costs built-in with them (insurance, repairs, etc...) In the long term, this won't work. Unsafe compared to what? Financing, as opposed to what? Leasing? Using their house to purchase a depreciating asset. Generalizing about cost over time too eh? A Focus/Fusion/Taurus costs no more to maintain then a 10 year old whatever. You don't have a differential to worry about, or hubs so what's the problem? Insuring these cars should also be cheaper due to better crash test ratings and active/passive safety devices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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