Will Ford File for Bankruptcy?

[BlackHorse]

Any bets that Ford will file Bankruptcy within 12 months? :stats:

 

It looks like Chrysler may come out of BR in less than 6 weeks. And the world didn't come to an end.

 

GM may take slightly longer, but with the zero debit, new UAW agreement and no cost dealership reduction..... Ford may be looking at the long term significants of unequal competitors.

 

 

There is no way the Ford can pay off the debt + interest and complete with GM and Chrysler with 0 debt.

 

GM and Chrysler will kill Ford with lower overhead and will be able to offer bigger rebates.

 

After Ford sees that people will buy cars from a BR company..... and they can get better terms with the UAW.... Why not file??? :reading:

 

 

As the owner of a Chrysler product (2008 Jeep Wrangler) let me answer this question. I really like my Jeep, it has been problem free with over 16K miles and going strong. There is a huge aftermarket that allows me to put all kinds of cool stuff on it and in it. I look forward to driving it and I am very, very unlikely to trade it. It's just a great vehicle. Now, having said that, let me say this. I will never buy another Chrysler or GM product so long as I live. Never. And I'm not given to using the "N" word often. But about this I am certain and I am equally as certain that there are a great many other Americans who feel the same way. We will not buy another product from these two companies because they are the embodiment of a socialist President with a socialist agenda. I do not like socialists and I do not like how this administration has handled the whole Chrysler / GM situation. I respect Ford for abstaining from the whole bailout nonsense. It would have been more accurate to call the auto industry bailouts the nationalization of the auto industry. Ford is the last true American car company as far as I am concerned. As a result, from hence forth I will buy only Ford products, probably starting with the V6 Mustang once the 3.5 engine is offered. I will do this because I refuse to support a socialist car company. If Ford declares bankruptcy out of some ridiculous "greener pastures" notion and turns themselves over to Obama as the other two have, then I will similarly never buy another Ford. I guess at that point I'll be a Toyota man. Just my two cents I know, but I also know there are a lot of Americans that right now are picking out which Ford they will buy when they are ready to trade their Chevy in.

 

 

PS, In two years time I suspect Ford will be doing quite well and their dealerships might need to expand the size of their used car lots to hold all of the Chrysler / GM cars that will be filling them up and not getting resold.

Edited June 3, 2009 by BlackHorse

[RichardJensen]

On the whole 'things will be so much sunnier after bankruptcy':

 

Which is more important? leadership or a balance sheet.

 

Now ask yourself (you few who see Ford at a disadvantage), 'will GM have better leadership than Ford after bankruptcy?'

 

-----

 

Balance sheets don't make companies successful, people make companies successful.

Edited June 3, 2009 by RichardJensen

[BlackHorse]

Now ask yourself (you few who see Ford at a disadvantage), 'will GM have better leadership than Ford after bankruptcy?'

 

Not only will they not have better leadership, they will be run by a central planning committee, many of whom don't even own cars. You might as well hire people who are hearing impaired to tune pianos.

Edited June 3, 2009 by BlackHorse

[macattak1]

On the whole 'things will be so much sunnier after bankruptcy':

 

Which is more important? leadership or a balance sheet.

 

Now ask yourself (you few who see Ford at a disadvantage), 'will GM have better leadership than Ford after bankruptcy?'

 

-----

 

Balance sheets don't make companies successful, people make companies successful.

 

Exactly. If I was working for GM or Chry I would be looking for a way OUT!

 

Ford gets my vote because the management team appears to be in sync in what needs to be done and so do the non management teams.

 

Peace and Blessings

[viva1time]

I don't think Ford will have to file bankruptcy. The fact that they were just able to get a stock offering done, which enabled them to get cash. Even with the dilution the stock price still was able to rebound, made it clear that Ford has options. I think the company will do more debt for equit/cash swaps and issue new stock in the future to help their balance sheet. My concern as an investor is dilution.

My guess is GM is going to to have to repay Uncle Sam with interest to get free of them. Also, I dont think they are going to get out of their pension obligations, Penny Benny would get crushed. Unfortunately for GM they did too little to late, and thay had no choice but to go this route. I would have rather seen them get a loan like chrysler did in 1980, but at least we are still saving a lot of jobs.

Disclamer, I'm biased pro ford. I own the car. I own the stock. However, business is business, I wouldn't invest in F to lose.

[Noah Harbinger]

Ooh Ooh, I know this one. It is ZERO!

 

Isn't it more like, negative millions?

[Noah Harbinger]

Not only will they not have better leadership, they will be run by a central planning committee, many of whom don't even own cars. You might as well hire people who are hearing impaired to tune pianos.

 

Beethoven did a pretty good job, didn't he?

[Noah Harbinger]

And I'm not given to using the "N" word often.

 

And I'll bet you're even good buddies with one.

[mettech]

I don't make this stuff up. :reading:

 

USA Today

[RichardJensen]

Beethoven did a pretty good job, didn't he?

well, to be honest, he didn't exactly make a living tuning pianos.

[jpd80]

On the whole 'things will be so much sunnier after bankruptcy':

 

Which is more important? leadership or a balance sheet.

 

Now ask yourself (you few who see Ford at a disadvantage), 'will GM have better leadership than Ford after bankruptcy?'

 

-----

 

Balance sheets don't make companies successful, people make companies successful.

I really like how GM thinks it can out pace Ford's restructuring achieving the same goals inside

18 months, they haven't said so but reading between the lines that's the objective.

 

I can see Fritz Henderson checking off his list:

1) Cut four brands and reducing sales by 18% - Check

2) Use Chapter 11 to jettison all that nasty debt - Check

2) Reduce production capacity - Check

3) Keep same morons in charge that got us in this mess - Check

4) Keep same crappy products that got us in this mess - Check

 

Can anyone see flaws in this viability plan?

[TomServo92]

I really like how GM thinks it can out pace Ford's restructuring achieving the same goals inside

18 months, they haven't said so but reading between the lines that's the objective.

 

I can see Fritz Henderson checking off his list:

1) Cut four brands and reducing sales by 18% - Check

2) Use Chapter 11 to jettison all that nasty debt - Check

2) Reduce production capacity - Check

3) Keep same morons in charge that got us in this mess - Check

4) Keep same crappy products that got us in this mess - Check

 

Can anyone see flaws in this viability plan?

 

No rebadged Opels!!!!!!

[RichardJensen]

I don't make this stuff up.

Of course not. And that guy sounds just as off-base as you do.

 

You can do everything OUTSIDE of bankruptcy that you can do WITHIN it. It just requires effort, diligence, managerial competence and money to do it outside of bankruptcy.

 

Fortunately for Ford they have those things.

[jpd80]

No rebadged Opels!!!!!!

That's right GM kept a stake in Opel, the corpse on legs.

[rmc523]

I really like how GM thinks it can out pace Ford's restructuring achieving the same goals inside

18 months, they haven't said so but reading between the lines that's the objective.

 

I can see Fritz Henderson checking off his list:

1) Cut four brands and reducing sales by 18% - Check

2) Use Chapter 11 to jettison all that nasty debt - Check

2) Reduce production capacity - Check

3) Keep same morons in charge that got us in this mess - Check

4) Keep same crappy products that got us in this mess - Check

 

Can anyone see flaws in this viability plan?

 

Nope.... :lol:

[fordmantpw]

I don't make this stuff up. :reading:

 

USA Today

 

If it is really that advantageous to just file bankruptcy instead of working things out and paying back your debt, why wouldn't everyone do it? When GM and Chryiat need to borrow in the near future, what's there interest going to look like compared to Ford's? What will consumers think? What about their reputation?

 

Ford may be at a disadvantage in some areas, but will have an advantage in other areas. I think things are looking good for Ford when compared to the "other 2".

[Michael Reynolds]

You have the fact that folks are a bit bitter about GM and Chrysler taking their tax money.

 

because of that....

 

You have folks that view both brands in a very negative light, thus refusing to buy anything from them.

 

on top of that.....

 

The supply lines are already constrained, so if you aren't interested in taking something off the lot forget about it.

 

oh and yeah.....

 

All those rebates/subsidized leases/incentives are going to be close to non-existent (heck they already are).

 

So where do all of those folks that are looking to spend money on a new vehicle go? Especially if they want something from a domestic manufacturer.

[fordmantpw]

And I seriously doubt this bankruptcy is going to be as quick as some are saying. I mean this is one of the largest bankruptcies in history! Chrysler may be quicker since they are merging with/being bought out by Fiat, but I don't think GM bankruptcy will be completed in 6 weeks to 2 months like I have heard thrown around. I'm betting this drags on into next year at least, possibly longer. Just look how long it has taken to get them to finally file.

[FordBuyer]

I love how people keep saying GM will come out of bankruptcy owing no one anything. As they come out, VEBA still has to be funded, UAW will still be making big money with lucrative benefits, retirees continue with their pension checks and medical. Dealers who are closed down will probably be suing. I thought I heard tonight that GM will be each closed down dealer $1 million. GM will come out having very little long term debt, but still have legacy costs that need to be funded. Ford can easily sell some more stock and pay off more long term debt with market cap of about $18 billion. GM has no market cap to speak of to obtain needed funds in that manner in or out of bankruptcy. Most important of all, Ford has control of its destiny and can use it in their marketing once GM starts running on full cylinders again.

[jpd80]

I don't make this stuff up. :reading:

 

USA Today

Ford can easily sell some more stock and pay off more long term debt with market cap of about $18 billion. GM has no market cap to speak of to obtain needed funds in that manner in or out of bankruptcy. Most important of all, Ford has control of its destiny and can use it in their marketing once GM starts running on full cylinders again.

Ford can do something GM can't, convince people to willingly convert debt into stock.

How about more debt for stock swaps, reducing Ford's remaining debt even further?

I can't see why not.

Edited June 3, 2009 by jpd80

[7Mary3]

They're collateralized, that's all.

 

Proof?

 

Chrysler will not be taking back any inventory pursuant to their franchise cancellations. That should pretty well demonstrate who owns that inventory.

 

My brother's Dodge dealership went out in February, and Chrysler took back the unsold inventory. They also owned the Viper that got totaled last year during a test drive! As for the terminated franchises, Chrysler doesn't want the cars back, they want the money.

Edited June 3, 2009 by 7Mary3

[7Mary3]

Ford can do something GM can't, convince people to willingly convert debt into stock.

How about more debt for stock swaps, reducing Ford's remaining debt even further?

I can't see why not.

 

GM got the government to agree to a debt to equity swap! As for Ford, I would not be surprised if they went for more debt to equity swaps, particularly if they can get Ford Credit classified as a bank.

[RichardJensen]

My brother's Dodge dealership went out in February, and Chrysler took back the unsold inventory.

You mean they REPOSSESSED his inventory? Wow. Kind of like what happens if you stop making payments on your car or house, right?

 

Geez.

 

Trust me. The stuff leaves the factory it's booked as REVENUE and SOLD to the DEALER.

 

 

 

 

 

If the DEALER never OWNED the product they SELL........ It wouldn't be the DEALER SELLING the PRODUCT, now would it?

 

----------

 

Moore proof: YOU own your car, even if you borrowed against it. Why? Because if you STOP making payments the only recourse the bank has is repossession. They can't have you arrested for theft because it's YOUR car!

 

-----------

 

The dealership OWNS their inventory, subject (perhaps) to liens from a bank or financing arm. Just ASK any dealer principal if I'm lying to you.

[jpd80]

GM got the government to agree to a debt to equity swap! As for Ford, I would not be surprised if they went for more debt to equity swaps, particularly if they can get Ford Credit classified as a bank.

Ford continuing to prove that taking control of one's own destiny is much better in the long run.

GM still has to get people interested in buying their rather ordinary products.

[mettech]

Ford continuing to prove that taking control of one's own destiny is much better in the long run.

GM still has to get people interested in buying their rather ordinary products.

 

"I guess I never thought I'd live to see the day where the CEO of General Motors

was dismissed by the President of the United States."

- Bill Ford

 

As per your quote... it this can happen... anything can happen.

 

Everyone take a look at what has happen during the past 6 months.

 

A year or two ago, would you have believed it?

China will own a USA car brand.

Fiat.... Fiat will have more dealerships in the USA than Toyota this month.

Ford's highest car sells is an import.

Hyundai will be increasing sales while everyone else is 23% or more down.

Hyundai has a good lux car on the market.

The price of gas is under $3.00 :happy feet:

 

 

 

I predict that there will be American car companies make cars here in the USA with out UAW members within 18 months.

 

I also believe that Ford will file Chapter 11 before they would borrow money from the Feds.

 

The UAW will open their contract with Ford two more times within the next 18 months.

 

GM will close more than the 11 big plants, and will be 50% of what they were last year.