DC Car Examiner Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 This year’s big news in the retro-muscle market niche isn’t the Mustang. Sure, it got a fairly significant overhaul for the 2010 model year, but the revised look is no radical departure from the hundreds of thousands of retro Mustangs that have been put on the road over the last five years. No, what’s turning heads these days is the new Chevrolet Camaro. The idea is as familiar as the Mustang’s: a retro-styled sporty coupe with lots of power, but the Chevrolet’s appearance is more distinctive and its ever-crucial horsepower numbers are higher. The problem is that it’s nearly impossible to get a Camaro... Continued at link: http://www.examiner.com/x-1017-DC-Car-Exam...-than-just-fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Continued at link: http://www.examiner.com/x-1017-DC-Car-Exam...-than-just-fast DC...sure the Camaro may be flavor of the month, but have you actually sat in one...if not you need too,,,outside visibility is absolutely HORRID, to the point of bordering on dangerous...that and the well documented quality and dependebility issues always seem to be absent from scribes comparos....I REALLY want to see a head to head between the Camaro 6 cyl and the Mustang GT...I have a sneeking suspicion GM's numbers for the 6 cyl are a tad "inflated" as has become their norm of late... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave91gt Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 DC...sure the Camaro may be flavor of the month, but have you actually sat in one...if not you need too,,,outside visibility is absolutely HORRID, to the point of bordering on dangerous...that and the well documented quality and dependebility issues always seem to be absent from scribes comparos....I REALLY want to see a head to head between the Camaro 6 cyl and the Mustang GT...I have a sneeking suspicion GM's numbers for the 6 cyl are a tad "inflated" as has become their norm of late... I believe the V6 Camaro does the 1/4 mile in the mid 14's with the GT running them in the mid 13's. The GT also outhandles the V6 and SS car. The TRUE comparison in my eyes is top of the line to top of the line. Shelby vs. SS, vs. SRT8 Challenger. The Mustang is much more expensive, but you get a lot for that $$. If doing a V6 comparo, the Mustang V6 is no match-yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 By the time Camaro demand begins to subside, we should have more information on the upcoming powertrains that Ford will stuff in the Mustang. Even without them the Camaro is only two to three tenths faster than the Mustang, and doesn't really out brake nor out handle the 'Stang either. So the ballyhooed Camaro with it's "fancy" motors and engine lineup, really hasn't changed the game at all. And the Hyundai? Don't even get me started there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 The Mustang is much more expensive, but you get a lot for that $. I did some price comparisons with my 06 GT vs the 10 GT and the only reason the 10 GT costs more is you can get the Glass Roof, nav and the track package. Otherwise they are within 1-2K of one another with a much better interior and dare I say a more refined/better detailed look then the 05-09 Mustangs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I believe the V6 Camaro does the 1/4 mile in the mid 14's with the GT running them in the mid 13's. The GT also outhandles the V6 and SS car. The TRUE comparison in my eyes is top of the line to top of the line. Shelby vs. SS, vs. SRT8 Challenger. The Mustang is much more expensive, but you get a lot for that $. If doing a V6 comparo, the Mustang V6 is no match-yet. I disagree...the price difference between a Camaro SS and a Shelby GT500 is enough to buy a Focus. While it certainly is a better car, that's a hard pill to swallow for two cars that are essentially competitors. $50K niche cars sell magazines. What it really comes down to in sales is value and desirability (especially with the sales leader V6 models). The Camaro looks like a stillborn Hippopotamus. Whether it is faster or not is besides the point to most buyers. If that was the case everyone would be buying them. What car can you live with the easiest and not be a "flavor of the month" in 2010? The Mustang (while "more vanilla" then the Camaro)... is still easier on the eyes and easier to live with as an everyday car. If Ford keeps that forumula going, they will always be around, even after the Camaro wheezes its last breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I disagree...the price difference between a Camaro SS and a Shelby GT500 is enough to buy a Focus. While it certainly is a better car, that's a hard pill to swallow for two cars that are essentially competitors. $50K niche cars sell magazines. but the SS barely outperforms a GT. There is no true competition for the GT500 from the Camaro...yet. When the 5L comes out in the GT next year, well its game over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 but the SS barely outperforms a GT. There is no true competition for the GT500 from the Camaro...yet. When the 5L comes out in the GT next year, well its game over... question...is the SS handbuilt in any ways?...and how many are being made in comparison to the "Limited" production GT500? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 question...is the SS handbuilt in any ways?...and how many are being made in comparison to the "Limited" production GT500? Aren't most Mustang sales V6 cars at the moment, if that's so then Ford is doing OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Aren't most Mustang sales V6 cars at the moment, if that's so then Ford is doing OK If memory serves, about 70% of all recent Mustangs (1994 to present) have come with a V6 engine. I guess I'm one of the few Ford fans who thinks GM did a good job with the new Camaro. Personally, I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The Camaro looks like a stillborn Hippopotamus. I have to put this in my sig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Aren't most Mustang sales V6 cars at the moment, if that's so then Ford is doing OK I must say, I'm very impressed with the new Mustang V6. It looks every bit as good as the Mustang GT for once if not better when it's optioned well. It may not be as fast as the Camaro V6, but it looks much better and it looks like the premium Mustang GT inside and out. And the Mustang V6 is still fast enough for most customers. However, the Mustang V6 does deserve Ford's best V6 and will have it soon. Ford greatly improved the Mustang V6, and now it just needs the better V6 with 60 or more ponies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 If memory serves, about 70% of all recent Mustangs (1994 to present) have come with a V6 engine. I guess I'm one of the few Ford fans who thinks GM did a good job with the new Camaro. Personally, I like it. In what way other than drivetrain maybe? I don't see how anyone could say interior, especially instrument panel is first rate design. The squashed down look of it and ungainly view out of it is not first rate or modern. The more I see of it on road the more ungainly it looks. Not refined at all. Certain views of it look fine, but in total view it's pretty bad. I wish I could say it's great because GM needs a major hit. But they missed with this one. Even if exterior opinion is subjective, the interior design is horrible no matter how you look at it. I'm sorry that GM blew it with the Camaro again. You have to go back to the 60's to view the last great Camaro. The rest are boy racers only the macho, insecure boys could love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 If memory serves, about 70% of all recent Mustangs (1994 to present) have come with a V6 engine. Not quite, after the 05 came up the V8 was up to 50% for a couple years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkapeGote Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Sup, Lets give the Bow Tie brigade this one. The Camaro has been 6 years coming. There is pent up demand from enthusiasts. GM really hasn't produced a real working mans sports car since they quit making them. The GTO was never really worth the effort and the G8, well, it was just the wrong time. The current Mustang competes just fine, considering it's deficit for horsepower. I say if they got the numbers to 350 - 375 hp, they would dance on the Camaro. I guess we will wait and see. Skape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave91gt Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 In my opinion, the Camaro is still following GM's typical plan for that car. Great powertrains and suspension, lacking on interior and usefulness. Back in the eighties, the Camaro was a good handler (Iroc), great brakes, acceptable power, but a heavy uncomfortable pig. The Mustang Fox body was cheaper, as fast or actually faster than the 350 cars (305's were no comparison), braked decent for the day but was more comfortable to drive. The LS1 cars had awesome power out of the box, decent handlers, but boring and uncomfortable interiors. And still heavy. Then they died. The Mustang had some low points with the 96-98 Mustangs powerwise, but they outsold the F twins combined because the public enjoyed driving dynamics of the Mustang. Now the new Camaro I think is a good start for GM as it has good power, brakes, and to a point looks. But have you actually looked at the dash? It IMO is absolutely hideous. The trunk space is smaller than a GEO Metro and the driver needs to be 5'10 to avoid rubbing their head on the headliner. The pent up demand is driving the sales, but I think the path is set for the Mustang to keep the overall popularity vote. If nothing else, competition is good and hopefully Ford will compete with better power in both V6 and V8 engines. Again that is my opinion, and I am obviously biased toward the Mustang. The magazine tests are all over the place on some highs and lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I think Ford was pretty smart with the '10 Mustang V8/V6s. Standing pat with the engines. Next year, when all the hulabaloo over the Camaro had died down, and the 3.7/5.0 is under the Mustang hoods........and just as importantly....when the 05/06 are being paid off after their 60 mo. loans (<<<<they are the Mustang loyalists and BUYERS). Next year, whatever limited "bragging rights" the Camaro has will be gone, it will be seen for what it is: a High HP but FAT overstyled coupe. Nothing more. I already think the 10 Mustang is a better car than the Camaro. Next year......it'll be a slam dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project-Fairmont Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 For what its worth this kid who reviewed the '10 GT is actually very refreshing IMO. He takes the long view and qualifies his opinons... Last evening I read his reviews of compact sedans, mid size cars, and small SUV's. He looks at vehicles much like I do, and knocks people's preceptions about Honda's being reliable by stating every car is reliable now days...and the premium you pay (sticker price) v. a rebated car doesnt make sense even though the resale is higher on a Honda v. a discounted car that takes into account residual value from list price - even though a person pockets the rebate! I also like how he scrutinizes each car like an owner should and comes to conclusions based on how well they do as road cars day to day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 For what its worth this kid who reviewed the '10 GT is actually very refreshing IMO. He takes the long view and qualifies his opinons... Last evening I read his reviews of compact sedans, mid size cars, and small SUV's. He looks at vehicles much like I do, and knocks people's preceptions about Honda's being reliable by stating every car is reliable now days...and the premium you pay (sticker price) v. a rebated car doesnt make sense even though the resale is higher on a Honda v. a discounted car that takes into account residual value from list price - even though a person pockets the rebate! I also like how he scrutinizes each car like an owner should and comes to conclusions based on how well they do as road cars day to day. I agree; Examiner's reviews on BON forums are always a worthwhile read. I hope Examiner.com is able to score more OEM press fleet vehicles for its reviewers to conduct more extensive assessments. Though I'm sure the dealerships that have provided many of the test vehicles thus far appreciate the exposure that an Examiner review at their facility promotes. More competition in the professional automobile reviewer market is a great thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Thanks! The problem that I personally have had getting test vehicles from manufacturers is actually an insurance issue, not a willingness one. Some automakers can't lend out a car to someone under 21, others have a limit of 25. I've been able to get weeklong test cars from Hyundai and Kia so far, and Subaru is ready to join them. And many dealers do resist lending a car to someone who isn't a customer. The dealership itself isn't necessarily getting a direct benefit even if I do link to them -- and the salesman whose time I take is even less likely to get something out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I did some price comparisons with my 06 GT vs the 10 GT and the only reason the 10 GT costs more is you can get the Glass Roof, nav and the track package. Otherwise they are within 1-2K of one another with a much better interior and dare I say a more refined/better detailed look then the 05-09 Mustangs. Aren't most Mustang sales V6 cars at the moment, if that's so then Ford is doing OK I've seen about 10-12 new Mustangs around town since their debut. Not one has been a GT - they've all been V6s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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