twintornados Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 230 MPG composite city numbers for Volt....just announced via GM webcast....if true...yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 230 MPG composite city numbers for Volt....just announced via GM webcast....if true...yikes! A prime example of wishful thinking. I'm assuming it has a 2-gallon tank, for a 460-mile range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/gm-ceo-...230-mpg-in-the/ It's all in the way you count that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 A prime example of wishful thinking. I'm assuming it has a 2-gallon tank, for a 460-mile range? nope, it's 8.3. certifying a car like this is very difficult. i assume the math pan's out in the EPA's new test..but being as it's not approved yet and the test parameters aren't yet released..this is still unofficial. if the old test's were used..it would get infinite miles. which is obviously not realistic to the average driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Looks good on paper but no way you can make a business case for it if cost is going to be 35-40K. The tree hugging nuts will probably love it so let them buy it. It will probably steal some Prius sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Looks good on paper but no way you can make a business case for it if cost is going to be 35-40K. The tree hugging nuts will probably love it so let them buy it. It will probably steal some Prius sales. Like that's a bad thing... :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Two questions: 1. So how much will the car cost? How long will I have to drive it get the Cost of Ownership to equal just buying a Cobalt or Focus for 17K? 2. What is Ford working on? Yes there are many problems with the number Chevy released today but no one can deny this technology will be a game changer if it works and can eventually be offered in the 25K price range. You can bet Toyota is working feverishly on their answer to the Volt. So any rummors on what Ford might have in the works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 2. What is Ford working on? Yes there are many problems with the number Chevy released today but no one can deny this technology will be a game changer if it works and can eventually be offered in the 25K price range. You can bet Toyota is working feverishly on their answer to the Volt. So any rummors on what Ford might have in the works? Electric Focus and Transit Connect are in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I smell overpromising underdelivering here. Of course, the GM fanboys will claim they will be able to beat the EPA estimates and can get 400MPG out of it when it comes out in 2030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Looks good on paper but no way you can make a business case for it if cost is going to be 35-40K. The tree hugging nuts will probably love it so let them buy it. It will probably steal some Prius sales. not at $800 a month plus.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I smell overpromising underdelivering here. Of course, the GM fanboys will claim they will be able to beat the EPA estimates and can get 400MPG out of it when it comes out in 2030. 2030 is conservative....how long have they been tooting this horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 A prime example of wishful thinking. I'm assuming it has a 2-gallon tank, for a 460-mile range? The 230 mpg is City only and with a fully charged battery. Highway mpg would be much less. They are using a new EPA system for mpg so who know how they calculate it. The Volt is Flex fuel, so the EPA could be making an adjustment for that. So you only need a 2-gallon tank of Gasoline, but maybe you also need a 10 gallon tank of E-85? I think the 230 mpg is for the first 100 miles only. The battery surplus is used for most of this. The rest of the range would be done with gas, it would get much less fuel efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 What I want to know is: When the battery surplus is used up, what is the mpg running as a regular hybrid? Both City and Hwy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) The 230 mpg is City only and with a fully charged battery. Highway mpg would be much less. They are using a new EPA system for mpg so who know how they calculate it. The Volt is Flex fuel, so the EPA could be making an adjustment for that. So you only need a 2-gallon tank of Gasoline, but maybe you also need a 10 gallon tank of E-85? I think the 230 mpg is for the first 100 miles only. The battery surplus is used for most of this. The rest of the range would be done with gas, it would get much less fuel efficiency. Regardless, perhaps they need a disclaimer at the bottom. "Some statements may be more bullshit than they appear" Not trying to take away their achievement (they built a hybrid after all), but this is the kind of hype that tends to bite back. Hell, I could take my Ranger out of gear (let the engine idle) and roll it down I-77S from VA into NC and achieve well over 100 mpg at highway speed. It would be hype, but true. What I want to know is: When the battery surplus is used up, what is the mpg running as a regular hybrid? Both City and Hwy? With that much extra (battery) weight, you can bet it would suck. Edited August 11, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Regardless, perhaps they need a disclaimer at the bottom. "Some statements may be more bullshit than they appear" Not trying to take away their achievement (they built a hybrid after all), but this is the kind of hype that tends to bite back. Hell, I could take my Ranger out of gear (let the engine idle) and roll it down I-77S from VA into NC and achieve well over 100 mpg at highway speed. It would be hype, but true. With that much extra (battery) weight, you can bet it would suck. really doesn't matter...public is already brainwashed...now everytime someone mentions the Volt ..."oh, is that the car that gets 230 mpg's '.....what an absolute crock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Keep in mind, that 230 mpg number is only valid in city driving, though GM claims that the Volt's combined mpg rating will still be in the triple-digit range. Though the EPA has yet to finalize its methodology, we have come across a calculation that makes sense. According to a commenter on TTAC.com, the EPA would first drive a PHEV with a full charge until it reaches a charge-sustaining mode, after which it completes a normal cycle of 11 miles. The Volt, therefore, would presumably go 40 miles before activating charge-sustaining mode, and then travel another 11 miles for a total of 51 miles. Thus, GM can claim the Volt will achieve 230 mpg based on 51 miles of driving during which only .22 gallons of fuel would be used. Likewise, if we know the Volt would use .22 gallons of fuel while traveling 11 miles in charge-sustaining mode, we can calculate that it would achieve 50 mpg while traveling with the generator on. from autoblog. makes sense assuming the driver drives under 50 miles a day its great. but if you drive more the mileage really starts to fall off. you gotta wonder how the epa will rate cars that use no gas period, like electric focus and the nissan leaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 from autoblog. makes sense assuming the driver drives under 50 miles a day its great. but if you drive more the mileage really starts to fall off. you gotta wonder how the epa will rate cars that use no gas period, like electric focus and the nissan leaf so one has to buy two cars for the cross country trip????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstakelin Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 :reading: Who care? Its still going to be a $40k plus car. Not exactly a mass market kinda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The 230 number is per some proposed EPA mumbo jumbo. The impressive number I saw was the 25 kW-hr per 100 miles. That is a true measure of energy use. For an EV that is pretty good. That is 1/4 kW-hr per mile in a "city cycle". Now what I would love to see are the numbers for city and highway with the gas engine running. These will not be brought up much, but with a drivetrain and packaging efficient enough to give 25 kW-hr per 100 miles, they should be better than most hybrids. The best thing about this "data release" is that it provides a target for others to shoot at, even if it is a moving one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) What I want to know is: When the battery surplus is used up, what is the mpg running as a regular hybrid? Both City and Hwy? This car is not a hybrid as we think of a Prius or Fusion Hybrid. It works the same way as a modern Train Locomotive - the gas engine generates electricity, and the electric motor power the wheels. The gas engine never directly powers the wheels as it does for a Prius, it just produces the electricity to charge batteries and/or run the electric motor. This technology is not really new. Submarines in the pre-nuclear era worked this way, and as I said, this is the reason that transportation by rail is so efficient. This old concept, when perfected for autos (trucks and RV’s hopefully to come) is far better than any “alternative” currently in use. Edited August 11, 2009 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstakelin Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 And another thing...this is the same EPA that is part of the government that owns General Motors. No surprise of the numbers here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 And another thing...this is the same EPA that is part of the government that owns General Motors. No surprise of the numbers here. Knew it wouldn't take long for the conspiracy theories to pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The Volt will be the first, but givien GM's inability to keep up with the competition, Ford, Toyota, etc. will produce cheaper, better built and equally efficient high MPG vehilcles. Maybe MPGs isn't the way to look at these vehicles? Henderson said charging the volt will cost about 40 cents a day, at approximately 5 cents per kilowatt hour. Of course electricity is more expensive in CA.....but 3X????? http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/07/sd...ic-vehicles.php California’s electricity capacity could recharge as many as 4 million plug-in hybrids when charged during off-peak hours when electricity use is low. The plug-in hybrid’s fuel-cost savings over traditional gasoline-powered vehicles would save these 4 million consumers approximately $4.2 billion a year at today’s average gasoline price of $3 per gallon when compared to 15 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity for 14,400 miles driven annually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstakelin Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Knew it wouldn't take long for the conspiracy theories to pop up. No conspiracy theory, just making a statement. I will believe it when it is printed on a window sticker and owners are reporting the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 No conspiracy theory, just making a statement. I will believe it when it is printed on a window sticker and owners are reporting the same thing. Inaccuracy in EPA economy estimates are nothing new, government ownership in GM or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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