FordBuyer Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 "Cash for Clunkers sent the sales rate on a wild roller coaster ride," Edmunds.com Senior Analyst Jessica Caldwell said in a statement. "The SAAR surpassed 19 million in late July, bounced around in the 15 million range early in August and has fallen to around 8 million currently." "Ending August on such a low note does not bode well for September." The government brought an end to the clunkers program earlier this week, saying on Wednesday that dealers submitted 690,114 sales totaling $2.88 billion. Japanese automakers sold more vehicles through the program than their U.S. counterparts and Edmunds' estimates reflected that fact. Edmunds projected that Toyota sales rose 3 percent year over year, while Hyundai sales surged 69 percent. Ford rose 26 percent, the company projected. Sales of its Focus sedan was among the top sellers through the program. General Motors sales, meanwhile, fell 25 percent, while Chrysler fell 19 percent, the Web site said According to Edmunds, Ford and Hyundai are the big winners in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Wow, I was only thinking of 10-15% rise...but if its that big or bigger...Hello Q3 PROFIT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Wow, I was only thinking of 10-15% rise...but if its that big or bigger...Hello Q3 PROFIT!!! Ford dealers around here are still busy even after CARS. Most of the 2010 Flexes are sold, and every new Taurus that comes in is presold. Blackwell Ford got in five new Tauruses yesterday and everyone presold. The only vehicle that doesn't seen to be selling very well are the Edge. Lots of Edges on lots, but pretty much sold out of everything else. Flex, Taurus, Fusion, Focus, F-150, and Escape are the big sellers. Ford announced that F-150 sales will top last August sales for first time this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 "Cash for Clunkers sent the sales rate on a wild roller coaster ride," Edmunds.com Senior Analyst Jessica Caldwell said in a statement. "The SAAR surpassed 19 million in late July, bounced around in the 15 million range early in August and has fallen to around 8 million currently." "Ending August on such a low note does not bode well for September." The government brought an end to the clunkers program earlier this week, saying on Wednesday that dealers submitted 690,114 sales totaling $2.88 billion. Japanese automakers sold more vehicles through the program than their U.S. counterparts and Edmunds' estimates reflected that fact. Edmunds projected that Toyota sales rose 3 percent year over year, while Hyundai sales surged 69 percent. Ford rose 26 percent, the company projected. Sales of its Focus sedan was among the top sellers through the program. General Motors sales, meanwhile, fell 25 percent, while Chrysler fell 19 percent, the Web site said According to Edmunds, Ford and Hyundai are the big winners in August. If C4C helped out Toyota more than Ford, and Ford rose 25% compared to Toyota's 3%, looks like Ford is doing REALLY well outside of C4C! That is great news!! :happy feet: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hyundai is a Japanese car company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hyundai is a Japanese car company? Either way, the USA just gave Korea & Japan a 2 billion dollar gift courtesy of the US taxpayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ford dealers around here are still busy even after CARS. Most of the 2010 Flexes are sold, and every new Taurus that comes in is presold. Blackwell Ford got in five new Tauruses yesterday and everyone presold. The only vehicle that doesn't seen to be selling very well are the Edge. Lots of Edges on lots, but pretty much sold out of everything else. Flex, Taurus, Fusion, Focus, F-150, and Escape are the big sellers. Ford announced that F-150 sales will top last August sales for first time this year. Here in the Greenville Area of SC, Edges are very hard to come buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Either way, the USA just gave Korea & Japan a 2 billion dollar gift courtesy of the US taxpayers Right, because the Americans that bought the vehicles and actually received the cash and the Americans that sold the vehicles and the Americans that owned the dealerships that sold the vehicles don't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ford rose 26 percent, the company projected. General Motors sales, meanwhile, fell 25 percent Not sure this makes sense unless GM had a killer August 2008. We know from published reports that GM had a higher percentage of the C4C sales than Ford (I think it was roughly 17% vs. 14+%), so attributing Ford's climb to C4C seems to be leaving something out of the picture in terms of GM. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Not sure this makes sense unless GM had a killer August 2008. We know from published reports that GM had a higher percentage of the C4C sales than Ford (I think it was roughly 17% vs. 14+%), so attributing Ford's climb to C4C seems to be leaving something out of the picture in terms of GM. Thoughts? I guess one would have to know both GM's and Ford's sales in August of 2008, and I would say Ford's sales were probably dismal. I would also guess that Toyota probably did pretty well a year ago in August and maybe GM did decent. Ford has already stated that its F-150 sales are better than last year and GM probably didn't beat last years numbers with the Silverado I would guess. Add in better Fusion sales for 2010 plus CARS and Ford has put together a good month for them in comparison to last year. With new Fusion, Taurus, and Flex...Ford should be able to beat last years numbers rest of year if not come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
move4ward Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Link? Click Here For Edmunds AutoObserver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shllshck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) If C4C helped out Toyota more than Ford, and Ford rose 25% compared to Toyota's 3%, looks like Ford is doing REALLY well outside of C4C! That is great news!! :happy feet: :happy feet: But don't forget last August, Ford was in a sales death spiral while Toyota was still posting pretty big numbers in June, July, August of 2008. The fact that Toyota is able to post a gain is rather incredible. Ford in August 2008 sold 155,690 vehicles (All divisions) compared with Toyota's 211,533 (All divisions.) If we are looking at the Ford brand and Toyota brand than Ford sold 133,088 vs Toyota's 182,252 last August. Still, glad to see Ford picking up even more market share. Edited August 28, 2009 by shllshck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Ford rose 26 percent, the company projected. Sales of its Focus sedan was among the top sellers through the program. :happy feet: The only vehicle that doesn't seen to be selling very well are the Edge. Lots of Edges on lots, but pretty much sold out of everything else. The redesigned model can't come fast enough......the current one is a bit long in the tooth.... Right, because the Americans that bought the vehicles and actually received the cash and the Americans that sold the vehicles and the Americans that owned the dealerships that sold the vehicles don't count. Can we not start this debate again...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Ford dealers around here are still busy even after CARS. Most of the 2010 Flexes are sold, and every new Taurus that comes in is presold. Blackwell Ford got in five new Tauruses yesterday and everyone presold. The only vehicle that doesn't seen to be selling very well are the Edge. Lots of Edges on lots, but pretty much sold out of everything else. Flex, Taurus, Fusion, Focus, F-150, and Escape are the big sellers. Ford announced that F-150 sales will top last August sales for first time this year. the Taurus is going to take sales from the Edge.... I expect the Edge sales to be 50% less then they were before the new Taurus came out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 the Taurus is going to take sales from the Edge.... I expect the Edge sales to be 50% less then they were before the new Taurus came out.. 50%?? You really think sales of Edge will drop 50% because of Taurus and/or that those looking at Edge would rather get a Taurus (at least at that percentage)? Even though I'm sure it'll happen, I don't think the percentage will be that high. My earlier statement still stands though - the new Edge can't come quick enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Right, because the Americans that bought the vehicles and actually received the cash and the Americans that sold the vehicles and the Americans that owned the dealerships that sold the vehicles don't count. thats right they do not count... its simple math.. if a KIA dealership sells 5K cars then ya that dealer makes $$ but thats it.. but if a Ford dealership seles 5K cars then not only does the dealer make $$ but the Auto worker does and multiple truck drivers who drive the parts from suppliers and steel from the steel plants and not to forget the parts line workers and all of the business those people support.... to make it short the dealership make $$ on sales but the US and state/local economies are much better off when the cars are made here and not imported as 90% of KIA is and 60% of toyotas are....and yes the Fusion engine,transmission and other parts are made in the US its just not assembled here but thats much better then the KIA or toyota 100% imports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) I think their 22% is optimistic. I have 16% as my average of three models - still a nice chunk of vehicle-age. I don't have insights into fleet sales, though, so I cannot perfectly predict the outcome. Toyota I actually have up 7%. GM is only down 19% by my models. A little tighter than Edmund's. However, GM's drop is explained by fleet sales. That said, if Ford had more inventory, I suspect August could have been even better. When the program began, Ford was winning over 15% of sales. I suspect Ford lost 7-8k clunker sales and 3-4k additional retail movements because of poor inventory. That's ~10-12k units and would have lifted them another 7-8%. Although Toyota won the crown, this was an excellent event for Ford. I wish I could correct every article claiming this was a victory for the imports when Ford was outstripping its retail marketshare by 2 points at the offset. That was second only to Hyundai. Looking back at last year, GM had some massive fleet movements and some fire sales on retail. Their share was at its highest in August and September. That was when Lutz and Wagoner were talking about GM's rise in the industry and the strength of their product line. We know how that story ended... GM will probably post a 30-40% decline in September unless they have some solid fleet sales. Toyota similarly was stocking inventory and had some good sales going on. Ford started cutting its inventory build-up heavily in late July. I wish they could have used as much foresight now as they did then and have the lots ready for C4C. They realized that it was taking steeper and steeper discounts to get people in the door, and Ford stopped playing. It killed them for three months (all of Q3) but has helped them since. Ford may be the only automaker to eek out a gain next month. Edge: it is old and expensive for what it is (5-seat CUV only slightly larger than an Escape - not that it isn't worth its price, but people are about utility right now, not luxury). Ford isn't pricing it as such or advertising a dying model as hard, so sales will naturally decline. That, and its segment share is shrinking. It won't put the sales charts on fire like the Escape, but it won't be as bad as some think - there were some good movements the last couple weeks. The Flex is finally where Ford probably wanted its inventory from the start. I think there were less than 10 days of Escape inventory for a few days. Lincoln. WTF? I don't have a lot of insight into Lincoln, but I know its sales weren't nearly as affected by C4C as the rest of Ford. Still, I have them down as Ford's anchor. I could be wrong, but Lincoln is one of the reasons that my projections are weaker than Edmund's. The only thing that could have saved Lincoln were fleet movements - and that's a terrible way to build a luxury marque. We'll see what happens next Tuesday. Edited August 28, 2009 by focus05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 thats right they do not count... its simple math.. if a KIA dealership sells 5K cars then ya that dealer makes $$ but thats it.. but if a Ford dealership seles 5K cars then not only does the dealer make $$ but the Auto worker does and multiple truck drivers who drive the parts from suppliers and steel from the steel plants and not to forget the parts line workers and all of the business those people support.... to make it short the dealership make $$ on sales but the US and state/local economies are much better off when the cars are made here and not imported as 90% of KIA is and 60% of toyotas are....and yes the Fusion engine,transmission and other parts are made in the US its just not assembled here but thats much better then the KIA or toyota 100% imports This is America and I support everybodies right to buy what they want, freedom is what makes this country great. So if anybody wants to buy a foreign car I support that right which many have fought and died for. But those people should not justify there purchase of a foreign car with cries of it is made here or sold here and thus creating jobs. Those companies can try to sell the image of being an American car company all they want but bottom line is they are not, they are foreign and the foreign company make a profit from those sale taking money out of this country. So buy what you want it's your right and everyone should support it, but don't tryt to have your cake and eat it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 This is America and I support everybodies right to buy what they want, freedom is what makes this country great. So if anybody wants to buy a foreign car I support that right which many have fought and died for. But those people should not justify there purchase of a foreign car with cries of it is made here or sold here and thus creating jobs. Those companies can try to sell the image of being an American car company all they want but bottom line is they are not, they are foreign and the foreign company make a profit from those sale taking money out of this country. So buy what you want it's your right and everyone should support it, but don't tryt to have your cake and eat it too. That's what I say to my friend that asks me if foreign cars should not be allowed in the US. Naturally I say they should be allowed, if you want to buy a Honda, that is your right and I will defend your rights. All I ask for is a little responsibility in buying things when the result can clearly come back and bite you in the butt. I explain that foreign manufacturers aren't doing the U.S. a favor by building their cars over here. They are doing it because it is cheaper to build them here as opposed to build them in Japan and ship them here. Putting it differently, it makes them more profit per car, profit that is in turn sent back to Japan and spent on research and development. Research and development puts alot of money back in to the economy of the country where it takes place. That is why it doesn't bother me that Ford has factories in other countries, they are doing it so they can send more money back here for R&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Okay. Has everyone had their say on C4C & imports? Good. We're not going into it again. None of you are going to convince your opponents and the middle ground just doesn't care. ---- I wonder why Edmunds even bothers----maybe because nobody checks their numbers afterwards..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Okay. Has everyone had their say on C4C & imports? Good. We're not going into it again. None of you are going to convince your opponents and the middle ground just doesn't care. ---- I wonder why Edmunds even bothers----maybe because nobody checks their numbers afterwards..... That's why I asked if we could skip that debate, but it obviously didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) F*** toyota, honda, Nissan & hyundai...... there, I'm done enjoy you import loving mutha f***ers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090828/ap_on_...as_japan_toyota Edited August 28, 2009 by NickF1011 More asterisks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Last week: My Wing Commander bought a G37. Still has his A4 and G35. The Finance officer traded in a Mustang for a Camaro SS. They also own a STS and a '70 MACH 1 My Commander traded in a '89 Toyota pickup for a Forester. He did go to the Ford dealership first (stock holder with x-plan) and they didn't have a AWD car on the lot. Two NCOs bought Pontiac (G6 and Torrent) I have a Fusion on order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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