blksn8k2 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I think a lot of people are underestimating the power of the internet. Every Mustang and Ford website has been telling everyone to wait until 2011 to buy a new Mustang. Believe it or not a lot of buyers actually do research on their purchases. This might not affect V6 sales too much because those sales go to non enthusiasts for the most part. But the majority of buyers interested in a GT are also interested in upgrading their cars which means they spend enough time cruising websites to see all the rumors about the 2011 drivetrains. This is also probably pushing some sales to the Camaro for those who are not brand loyal and/or not willing to wait for the new engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 ??? How you could even possibly know that aside, something needs to happen with regards to the Mustang to keep it profitable. I can't find the article now, but when the 2005 Mustang was launched, either Bill Ford or Mark Fields gave it the ok to have its own unique platform..which NO Mustang has ever had before. The also stated that they only needed to sell about 100K units or so a year (which was avg rate the Mustang was doing in the years prior to this) to make it profitable. The sales numbers when they launched the 2005+ Mustang where well above that and "paid" the program off quicker and make a profit for Ford. IIRC, it was the first car Ford has built that was designed not to be whored out by making ridiculous x numbers to make money on it. If you noticed all launches since then have had reasonable sales numbers and still be profitable. Sure Mustang sales are down, but at this point is it really necessary to panic and do knee jerk things? IIRC in the early 90's before the SN95 Launched in 1994, the Fox was down to about 80K units a year..and that wasn't in the middle of the "Great Recession" we have going on. There are several factors at play here...the new Camaro launch and a lesser extent Hardcore Mustang Fans waiting for the new engines and add a dash of recession and we have what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If you noticed all launches since then have had reasonable sales numbers and still be profitable. Because those launches were on shared platforms, which kept costs down. Mustang is shared with nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Because those launches were on shared platforms, which kept costs down. Mustang is shared with nothing. Guess you missed, its still profitable even though its not...why in the world would Ford approved it if wasn't...after doing it(with the Mustang) for 40 YEARS before platform sharing became popular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I fear this is just smoke and mirrors; they are increasing fleet sales to drive volume and prop up an aging lineup of vehicles. Ford has no B segment car (Fiesta is still 9+ months away), Focus is woefully out of date and being given away to move the metal. The Escape is ancient and urgently needs replacing but that is also years away. The Explorer is dying, ditto the Expedition. The Mustang will be refreshed soon with new engines. The Flex is wonderful but underperforming. Lincoln is struggling, Mercury is a Saturn in waiting and Volvo is on the auction block. Until Ford genuinely offers American buyers the same state of the art chassis, powertrains and stlying that Europeans have been enjoying for years, they will continue to rely on discounts and fleets to prop up performance and stave off the wolves. I am a die-hard Ford fan but I worry about their future if their product reneweal programme does not keep pace with the market. Wow, so many half educated assumtions in one paragraph. Good job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Because those launches were on shared platforms, which kept costs down. Mustang is shared with nothing. Biggest unshared component is the safety cage. Powertrain and electronics are shared, and the suspension and floorpan have long lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) "Until Ford genuinely offers American buyers the same state of the art chassis, powertrains and stlying that Europeans have been enjoying for years.." What year do you think this is, 1999? Do you still think that "we never get Ford's global cars", as some were so quick to say in old days of BON? Some still think the Mondeo should be "shipped over now", when in fact it isn't all that great and Fusion is better for this market anyway. Fiesta is nearly here [cant wait a few months? geez] and Focus is behind it. Fusion and Taurus are re-done and cricitally acclaimed. Do cars have to be 'all new from ground up' every single year? [this isn't 1959.] Focus is selling fairly good for being 'ancient', and Toy-onda is way down, so Ford is doing pretty good I say for this bad recession. GM truck buyers are defecting to F's, since the bailout. Edited October 2, 2009 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I think a lot of people are underestimating the power of the internet. Every Mustang and Ford website has been telling everyone to wait until 2011 to buy a new Mustang. Believe it or not a lot of buyers actually do research on their purchases. This might not affect V6 sales too much because those sales go to non enthusiasts for the most part. But the majority of buyers interested in a GT are also interested in upgrading their cars which means they spend enough time cruising websites to see all the rumors about the 2011 drivetrains. This is also probably pushing some sales to the Camaro for those who are not brand loyal and/or not willing to wait for the new engines. Take it for what it's worth, but I've probably seen about 20-30 new 2010 Mustangs since their launch. All except 1 (one!) have been V6 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Some still think the Mondeo should be "shipped over now", when in fact it isn't all that great and Fusion is better for this market anyway. Fiesta is nearly here [cant wait a few months? geez] and Focus is behind it. Fusion and Taurus are re-done and cricitally acclaimed. Do cars have to be 'all new from ground up' every single year? [this isn't 1959.] Not every "world car" will be successful in the US. I think it is safe to say that the Fusion has been a MUCH more successful car in the US then the Mondeo based Contour of the 1990's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I fear this is just smoke and mirrors; they are increasing fleet sales to drive volume and prop up an aging lineup of vehicles. Ford has no B segment car (Fiesta is still 9+ months away), Focus is woefully out of date and being given away to move the metal. The Escape is ancient and urgently needs replacing but that is also years away. The Explorer is dying, ditto the Expedition. The Mustang will be refreshed soon with new engines. The Flex is wonderful but underperforming. Lincoln is struggling, Mercury is a Saturn in waiting and Volvo is on the auction block. Until Ford genuinely offers American buyers the same state of the art chassis, powertrains and stlying that Europeans have been enjoying for years, they will continue to rely on discounts and fleets to prop up performance and stave off the wolves. I am a die-hard Ford fan but I worry about their future if their product reneweal programme does not keep pace with the market. Hi P, Welcome Back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 90% of car buyers don't know the difference between BOF and unibody. 99.9% of the other 10% don't have a clue the Explorer is changing. I think you are right. The Ford 500 was criticized to be inferior to the Chrysler 300 because the 500 was FWD with a V6. Adding AWD should have fix the problem and it did not fix buyers perception. Then they restyled it as the new Taurus to have the same profile as the 300. I mean a long flat hood, bold grill and short tall trunk. They also Added an EcoBoost V6. With all this, it has the styling and power of a RWD car, but mechanically it is FWD or AWD. No one is criticizing the Taurus today. Now the 300 is criticized for being out of date. Same thing can be said about both the Ford Escape and Toyota highlander. They are both FWD/AWD and are both unit body. They are also both desired vehicles because they have the look and styling of a real truck, even when they are not real trucks. As long as the next Explorer does not have to tow a heavy trailer, it could do very fine as a FWD/AWD unit body vehicle. As long as they get the styling right. For myself, If I need to tow a yacht, I will rent a Superduty for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 What were the 2008 numbers over the 2007 numbers? I bet 2008 was a loser too. So basically you guys are calling a loser 2009 compared to a loser 2008 a success? Before someone calls me ozibuns, I am not. And I do own 2 current Fords a 08 Fusion and 10 Fusion Hybrid. I just can't see why you guys are not concerned when losing numbers are released. Ford doesn't have the treasury's printing press at its disposal like the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 What were the 2008 numbers over the 2007 numbers? I bet 2008 was a loser too. So basically you guys are calling a loser 2009 compared to a loser 2008 a success? Before someone calls me ozibuns, I am not. And I do own 2 current Fords a 08 Fusion and 10 Fusion Hybrid. I just can't see why you guys are not concerned when losing numbers are released. Ford doesn't have the treasury's printing press at its disposal like the competition. You are also forgetting that Ford has half the plants and workers it did two years ago. In another year or so, two more plants are being mothballed. Ford in 2009 is a much smaller company and can't even build the number of cars it did a few years ago. It supposely can make money now selling on average 150,000 vehicles/month assuming rebates are minimal. Thus you can't compare the volume of today to that of a few years ago when Ford had much more plant capacity and a lot more employees. Ford has cut many billions of dollars out of its cost structure. Who even knows when Americans will start buying new vehicles again in number anywhere near where they were a few short years ago. That day could be years away and in the meantime Ford can make profit on 10 million U.S. vehicle sales year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 What were the 2008 numbers over the 2007 numbers? I bet 2008 was a loser too. So basically you guys are calling a loser 2009 compared to a loser 2008 a success? Before someone calls me ozibuns, I am not. And I do own 2 current Fords a 08 Fusion and 10 Fusion Hybrid. I just can't see why you guys are not concerned when losing numbers are released. Ford doesn't have the treasury's printing press at its disposal like the competition. Yes they do but you just don't realize it. Companies like Ford don't pay off debts, they sell more shares or sell customer based debts/credit notes. Earlier this year Ford raised $9.9 billion in capitol that way and did similar for another billion last month. What makers me laugh is chicken littles running around saying Ford has no cash to pay debts and yet Ford Credit has roughly $120 billion in customer based loans that could be sold off progressively to pay down debt - so why don't they? The short answer is that Ford doesn't need to do anything because their cash burn has reduced greatly and they are now in a position to wait out the market for the next economic upswing. Rather than complaining about Ford's financials, you should be livid that GM is using its government funding to prop up incentives by offering 0% 60 month financing. On average, that's around $4,000 to $5,000 per car you the tax payer is giving GM. Kinda makes you sick doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 What were the 2008 numbers over the 2007 numbers? I bet 2008 was a loser too. So basically you guys are calling a loser 2009 compared to a loser 2008 a success? Before someone calls me ozibuns, I am not. And I do own 2 current Fords a 08 Fusion and 10 Fusion Hybrid. I just can't see why you guys are not concerned when losing numbers are released. Ford doesn't have the treasury's printing press at its disposal like the competition. Nobody's "not concerned" per se, but considering the economy and conditions and how drastically things changed from 2008, just a 5% loss of sales is good, relatively speaking. Would you rather have a 45% loss like GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Wait wait, you mean we've been in the middle of a recession? Is that why things have been so bad for the entire industry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Wait wait, you mean we've been in the middle of a recession? Is that why things have been so bad for the entire industry? What recession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 What recession? That's what I've been saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangman9494 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 maybe rethink mustang as retro loook ?? bring back some lines that aren,t so heavily influenced by the sixty seven?? just saying. also they got big. or feel big..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Take it for what it's worth, but I've probably seen about 20-30 new 2010 Mustangs since their launch. All except 1 (one!) have been V6 models. You live in Fort Lauderdale, I'm sure the bulk of them had Hertz barcodes on them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 You live in Fort Lauderdale, I'm sure the bulk of them had Hertz barcodes on them too. Despite the sales numbers, I've seen far more '10 Mustangs on the road than '10 Camaros myself. I find that the '10 Mustangs are harder to spot in traffic by comparison also, since from a distance they look very similar to the '05-'09's. Just my observation. On another disappointing note, it looks like someone on my street bought a Nissan Cube. Now I'll have to hold back my vomit every time I leave the neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 You live in Fort Lauderdale, I'm sure the bulk of them had Hertz barcodes on them too. Yes, a lot of them do have barcodes, but definitely not all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 On another disappointing note, it looks like someone on my street bought a Nissan Cube. Now I'll have to hold back my vomit every time I leave the neighborhood. That (whatever you want to call it) is a complete joke. Every time I see one on the road, there's some old smug looking dude behind the wheel. I'd drive a Daewoo anything b4 spending my money on something that god awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 That (whatever you want to call it) is a complete joke. Every time I see one on the road, there's some old smug looking dude behind the wheel. I'd drive a Daewoo anything b4 spending my money on something that god awful. I thought i was the only one that was seeing alot of those things on the road. Ugliest car on sale today, yet it seems to be selling reasonably well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I thought i was the only one that was seeing alot of those things on the road. Ugliest car on sale today, yet it seems to be selling reasonably well. I see quite a few down here - I don't know what people see in them. I can't stand the asymmetrical design, and I'd still hate it if it were symmetrical, but that'd be better than it currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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