Ford turning profit .. did they cut too many corners?

[aneekr]

I'm asking BON members how they feel Ford is doing on their quality march.

My take as a BON member, FoMoCo shareholder and debtholder, and owner of a Ford Fusion: Ford is marching in the right direction with their process improvement initatives. And as I said in my previous reply, the improvements made to vehicle quality already don't diminish the need to improve further. I don't see any reason Ford will not.

 

To answer the question in your thread title: No.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

 

 

Your point is, in short, "Is Ford cutting corners? Because my car has a door handle that broke"

 

Good GRIEF. Get a thicker skin man.

 

As for the opinion poll, do you honestly think you're going to get better results than a statistical survey conducted by JDP (or Consumer Reports), by asking a fistful of Ford fans what they think about Ford products based on their personal experiences?

 

Geeez is thats all this thread is about, my daughter complained about the rear door lock didnot work last week on the wifes Pug she said she felt unsafe. So l had a quick look at it turned out to be a sheared pop rivet that holds the handle on, a two minute simple job finding the pop pliers was the hardest bit of the job. It was probably my heavy handed daughter or another car that might of clipped the door handle, l don't think it would have been a thief tugging on the door handle as they would have been pretty desperate to want to steal the wifes shitty Pug.

 

Why can't anybody fix things these day anymore rather than moan all the time & waste time ticking boxes in consumer reports.

 

 

 

[MGallun]

A few comments, as i own a 2006 Fusion v6 SEL that i bought new with 3 miles on it, bought it in August of 2006, right now today it has 84655 miles.

 

 

anyways... i still have the original brakes, i have no problem with these brakes, i actually like them alot, as they are not touchy crap like other cars, where you tap and it just grabs, the way the brakes work now i can play with them less pedal for slower stop, more for major stop, and well, i dont do 70mph to zero stops, i find that test a joke as really, if you driving along at 70 and then need to just stop instantly something isnt right in the road or the person driving lol... anyways, i have had a few 30-40mph pretty hard stops and well it still locks up the breaks and stops, even at 84k, ps on the ABS thing, i hate ABS, never liked it, had it on a 97 TBird and well it caused me to get into a crash.. i feel i just dont have the control etc, i feel if you lose control of your car for locking them up or whatever your over driving for conditions etc.. so ya, brakes are not a issue for me, even at 84k. and non, they are not warped, guess it depends on the driver then i suppose.

 

Door handle? no issue, my doors open and close without issues.. so thats a non factor.

 

Tranny this is weird, but i think that is due to the 3.0 engine in the car getting long on life at the time of the fusion, its torque curve isnt the best and the tranny will hunt if your kinda going from certain speed. so ya, you may have to jam on gas pedal a bit to make it downshit to accelerate, but i only see the hunting issue on the freeway, when trying to pass etc, which is due to lower tq i suppose, but not really a safey issue? its just a older engine being put in a 6 speed tranny.. not the end of world, i have driven worse performing engine\tranny combos.

 

 

 

there is two things i have a complaint on the car..

 

1. The chrome plated stuff on the indo handles is weak, well at least my driver side one is bubbling a bit, the other doors are fine, kinda odd but meh...i have seen worse in so-called better cars

 

2. Not a Ford issue, but a build issue, on the trunk where my chrome thingy is, where the bolts attach it there is rust, and the corners on the thingy that touch the trunk itself are rusting, i havent seen this on any other fusion, and talked to many body shops said it was all put together wrong, so, i havent fixed it yet, but blah, no hurry lol.

 

Conclusion - This is a damn good car, not the best, not the worst, but damn good, one of the best ford has ever made, the quailty surveys prove that, even today 4 years later. At the time when i bought this car for 21k, you couldnt fnd anything from yota, dodge, honda, gm for that price that was comparable in features. and too this day, those same vehicles with less miles show alot more wear and tear, bad brakes, replaced parts etc that mine hasnt had... iam on a pesronal quest to get 100k out of these stock brakes lol, as long as they work and its safe they will stay on til then..

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I had to replace the ignition coil on my 2000 Focus at 151k miles.

 

Damn Ford and thier cost cutting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/sarcasm

LOL my indicator bulb has blown on my 1972 Escort Ford are swines, l will never buy a car from them ever again.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Swizco]

I know brakes have been a sore issue with Fords that past few years, and supposedly they have been addressing it.

 

I've had some contact with the brake teams of a few of these vehicles in the past, and from what I understand, Ford defines brake performance with these metrics:

 

1) Brake dust accumulation

2) Noise

3) Pad material (toxins, etc)

4) Stopping distance

 

As a result of 1-3, stopping distance suffers, and pedal feel isn't even on the map. As usual after launch and media complaints about crappy braking experiences, the teams will make a 5% 'fix' to implement at J1+90 or the next model year, and call them good enough. Very frustrating.

 

Also, there's some issue with long term quality regarding the way the brake noise question is phrased in the TGW survey. The question asks something like 'Do your brakes ever make noise'? ...Everyone's brakes make noise sometime, after the car has been sitting a while and you scrape off the lot-rot. As a result, brake teams are always dealing with a lot of 'noisy brakes' TGWs, and as a result are overly sensitive to this concern.

 

Until Ford's customers don't mind brake dust like most German cars produce and Ford offers pads made with some truly nasty stuff, I'm afraid brake pedal feel will be a shortcoming of new Fords.

 

Anyone have any insight to add?

[akirby]

There are no durability issues from what I've seen lately including my 06 Fusion SEL V6. No brake problems for me after 45K.

 

The problems that are popping up now appear to be limited to a single part or component and are usually the result of suppliers making unexpected changes or unanticipated engineering issues. This will happen with rapid development. But once fixed these usually don't reoccur.

[timmm55]

Just a thought...........a door handle breaking more than once might indicate an internal adjustment problem. Is something binding? Too loose or too tight?

[J-150]

YOUR SINGLE DATA POINT was not SUFFICIENT.

 

 

 

 

WHile this is 100% correct, let me argue the other side of unreliable statistical data.

 

While we at BON see only a few cars, a dedicated Fusion forum would start to reveal more of these issues.

 

When I picked up my first F150 in 98, I joined the most well known F150 forum out there. My dealer himself joined the same forum. Why? Because the forum members were revealing things before the dealers were even notified by Ford engineering of faults/defects/issues. It was there I learned of multifuction switch and lower intake gasket issues. Blown plugs and leaf spring shackles and the list goes on.

 

So we do not see statitical data captured by Ford on failure rates of some parts, but when you start to hear of common failures on a regular basis, you have to lift an eyebrow and pay heed.

 

Within this small universe of BONers, we have already seen 2 handle failures among 4 vehicle owners. A sample of 4 is unreliable. But it does point to the potential of a higher than average failure rate when we do not hear of this particular failure on any of the other vehicles owned by the participants of this thread.

[suv_guy_19]

 

While we at BON see only a few cars, a dedicated Fusion forum would start to reveal more of these issues.

 

 

As would CR and JDP. They aren't really coming up.

[TomServo92]

While we at BON see only a few cars, a dedicated Fusion forum would start to reveal more of these issues.

 

Forums, even dedicated ones, are a very poor source of statistical data.

[SVT_MAN]

Well, to be fair, you do have a first-model-year version of a car. Most manufacturers' first versions of new cars have problems that get ironed out in subsequent model years... and they change the features available on the car.

 

And please don't use a Google search to prove a point. After the first page of results, they become less and less relevant to what you're searching (I found articles on oil changes, for example).

 

Very good point. It's actually more valid to look at the results that are generated - and those results show tons of forums littered with the same problems I've encountered. People are even posting captioned pictures with steps on how to fix these issues yourself.

 

Forums, even dedicated ones, are a very poor source of statistical data.

 

Yeah, the sample size is too small. But that doesn't change the fact that Ford must be using cheap door handle parts if they keep breaking on people. Which is what I was getting at in my title. It's not like I am slamming my door shut.

Edited July 23, 2010 by SVT_MAN

[SVT_MAN]

SVT_MAN...sorry to hear your "tale of woe" about your Fusion...I have a 2006 Fusion SE....The driver door handle broke on me...I fixed it myself for $25 dollars with Ford OE parts, my brakes held on until about 60K miles. When I bought my car, I insisted on the side air bags and anti-lock brakes and had the dealer find me one with them. As I roll up to 100K miles, my Fusion has been very reliable in every measure of the word.

 

Thanks for the post, twintornados. I purchased the car second-hand in July of 2008. I incorrectly assumed every Fusion would have ABS on it. My 95 Sable had ABS, so I assumed a car that was 11 years newer would as well. Bad assumption on my part.

[Deanh]

Thanks for the post, twintornados. I purchased the car second-hand in July of 2008. I incorrectly assumed every Fusion would have ABS on it. My 95 Sable had ABS, so I assumed a car that was 11 years newer would as well. Bad assumption on my part.

you may have just hit a nail on the head...purchased second hand..........who KNOWS how well the car was treated beforehand...could explain the braking issues big time....for instance, my ex went through her BMW brakes regularly every 15k, my Minins brakes ( BMW ) were still alive at 60k....the tale of two different driving styles for sure....

[SVT_MAN]

Not a straw man. A straw man argument is not 'on point'.

 

Your point is, in short, "Is Ford cutting corners? Because my car has a door handle that broke"

 

That can be restated thus, "Do you think all coin flips come up heads? Because my coin flip has come up heads."

 

Substitution of one scenario for the other keeps the sentence logically coherent. Thus it is *not* a straw man.

 

Did I say that? Did I imply that? I merely said that YOUR SINGLE DATA POINT was not SUFFICIENT.

 

Good GRIEF. Get a thicker skin man.

 

As for the opinion poll, do you honestly think you're going to get better results than a statistical survey conducted by JDP (or Consumer Reports), by asking a fistful of Ford fans what they think about Ford products based on their personal experiences?

 

As for your last question: No, I do not think that I am going to get better results by asking a fistful of Ford fans about their anecdotal evidence based on personal experience.

 

It's pretty simple why I asked BON: I asked this question on BON because that's what is readily available to me based on the resources I have and the time I want to put into this. I'm not going to publish these results anywhere. It was a question asked out of curiosity in order to hear impressions from other Ford fans. Would you prefer I asked this on a Toyota forum? I don't know what my other alternatives are. I can't find out about whether other people have had door handle issues by reading in Consumer Reports.

 

Whether or not what you did is considered a straw man (frankly I don't care if it is or not), you still are misrepresenting the context in which my question was posed. I was not asking it in the context of a statistical survey and you knew that going in. This is a Ford forum. This is not a survey that was handed out in a magazine like Consumer Reports.

 

You asked it yourself: Who conducts a survey with the intentions of gathering statistics on a Ford forum? I'll say it again and this is the final time: I was asking this question in the context of an anecdotal opinion poll. I was not intending to gather formal research data. I'm not sure how many times I have to say that before it sinks in ...

 

It's really getting kind of old, Richard. I get the feeling that if I made a post about whether you agreed with me that today was July 23rd for a fact, you'd find some obscure ancient calendar to prove me wrong ...

Edited July 23, 2010 by SVT_MAN

[SVT_MAN]

you may have just hit a nail on the head...purchased second hand..........who KNOWS how well the car was treated beforehand...could explain the braking issues big time....for instance, my ex went through her BMW brakes regularly every 15k, my Minins brakes ( BMW ) were still alive at 60k....the tale of two different driving styles for sure....

 

Yeah - it's an unfortunate part of buying used. You never know for sure how the vehicle was treated prior to when you have it ...

[White99GT]

My experiences with Ford reliablity...

 

1999 Ford Mustang GT (mine) - TOB replaced under warranty, not a single problem that wasn't caused by usage and/or modification. Currently has 119,000 miles.

 

2001 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4x2 4.6L (mine) - No issues under warranty. Over the course of the truck's life I have replaced a 2 taillight bulbs, 4 ignition coils and the transmission tail-shaft housing bushing at 145,000 miles to correct a high speed drive line boom. The original battery lasted ~120,000 miles, original brake pads ~125,000 miles, original upper/lower ball joints ~135,000 miles. I replaced the u-joints at 145,000 miles just to do it, they were still fine. Truck is still on original shocks and rides better than my friend's 2008 Tundra, the body and interior feels tighter too. A/C compressor just began making noise yesterday, today I bought a new "loaded" compressor (includes clutch and oil charge) from Ford for $232.75, it comes with a 12/12 parts & labor warranty. Try matching that price with OEM Toyota. The truck currently has 151,000 miles.

 

2002 Ford F250 SD SuperCrew 4x4 7.3 PSD (Dad's) - TCC solenoid replaced at 40,000 miles. Sway bar end link replaced at 85,000 miles. Otherwise not a single other issue. Truck currently has 95,000 miles, often pulls 9,500+ lb trailers over a 400 mile stretch (one way), original brake pads, original ball joints, etc.

 

2005 Ford Freestyle (Mom's) - Replaced rear brake pads at 35,000 miles which Ford paid for, and I'm not sure why. The car has been flawless, as in not a single thing gone wrong with it yet :knock on wood: 75,000 miles.

 

2006 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4x4 5.4L (Uncle's) - IWE solenoid at ~75,000 miles. Not single issue otherwise, truck has ~90,000 miles.

 

2007 Ford Fusion SEL V6 (Dad's) - Had rotors turned at 23,000 miles to fix a wobble. Car currently has 27K, not a single other issue. It came standard with ABS. Bought this car dirt cheap from the auction just to sell it, my Dad liked it so much he turned it into his DD.

 

I have many friends and family who favor Chevy and Toyota, I can honestly say that the Fords seem more reliable on the whole than either of those brands, and that is including many pre-2006 Fords.

Edited July 23, 2010 by White99GT

[RichardJensen]

I had a reply typed up for you, SVT_MAN, but it's not worth it.

 

If you want to draw broad conclusions and make grand insinuations based on a single car you bought USED, go ahead, be my guest.

Edited July 24, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Deanh]

Yeah - it's an unfortunate part of buying used. You never know for sure how the vehicle was treated prior to when you have it ...

it also weakens the "cutting corners " argument dramatically, the onus could be solely blamed on prior ownership... :shades:

[Michael Reynolds]

I bought my Fusion almost 4 years ago, new with 32 miles on the odometer. Currently it is just shy of the 61,000 mile mark, and I've had the following things replaced under the original manufacturer warranty:

 

- Floor mats

 

It rides new, looks new and is far from a safety hazard. I made it a point when I bought mine to seek out the option pkg that included curtain/side airbags, ABS/Traction Control. There are a few things that drive me nuts, such as the padding on the door but outside of that I am very happy with the car. So much so that instead of buying another entry level luxury car we ended up with a 2010 Fusion Sport, a decision that came very easily.

 

And yeah Ford brakes suck, which is why I'm aftermarket with mine......even then braking performance is not limited to the type of rotors and pads you have.

[twintornados]

Thanks for the post, twintornados. I purchased the car second-hand in July of 2008. I incorrectly assumed every Fusion would have ABS on it. My 95 Sable had ABS, so I assumed a car that was 11 years newer would as well. Bad assumption on my part.

Ford took a lot of hits for not offering side air bags and anti-locks as standard for 2006...but they were trying to keep the price point as low as possible....in 2007, these items were made standard....

[hawaiicarguy]

Yeah - it's an unfortunate part of buying used. You never know for sure how the vehicle was treated prior to when you have it ...

 

SVT MAN I can appreciate your frustration. I initially was angry with my Fusion, had a couple of issues, but since I moved back to the East Coast and found a good dealer, they took care of them. Turns out they were all TSB's fixed for free, and they provided a rental car. My 2007 Fusion, just turn 28k and the rotors will need to be turned, but that is really the first bit of money I will have to put out. My car new stickered at 18k...so I cannot complain. A broken door handle...does not seem that bad....I could definitely see you being angry if your post said "Blown head gasket" or something like that. The interior door handles look the same as my 2010 Edge and other Fords I have seen lately, so I would think if there was an issue they would all be breaking. I might be wrong. Maybe your car was hit in the door before you bought it, and it was repaired incorrectly. But do not lose faith, Ford is clearly not cutting corners, they get better every year, and at least now when they screw up, they own up. I like that. I am not trying to flame you, but I share your initial frustration, but if you take a step back and look at it, cars are machines, they will break. Look at the severity of what has broken, look at other makes and see what has broken on them. I bet you will see door handles on that list too.

[BrewfanGRB]

I have an 09 Fusion SEL V6. Has every option except AWD and reverse sensing. (So it's got lots of stuff to go wrong). Bought new with 104 miles (I think?) on 3/4/09. It now has 38500. (Yeah, 38k in a year and a half). I don't baby the car. I DRIVE it. Not one problem. I agree the brakes "feel" iffy, but a couple times I've had to go to "Oh, shit...Oh, shit, OH SHIT!" mode, the brakes got it done. I don't know anybody who needs to haul a car down from 70-0 like that. If you do, you're not paying attention.

 

A while ago, there was a "rattle" or "click" from the HVAC fan. But it went away, somehow. I don't hear it anymore. Fit and finish is great. There was actually something that annoyed me in the first few months of ownership and now I forgot what it was. I will say this: I REALLY don't like the 80s green stereo. But that was "fixed" in 2010. And for a stock system, it does a great job.

 

What does it mean? Nothing. Maybe I got one of the few good Fusions built for the 09 MY. :shrug:

[Ford Jellymoulds]

 

And yeah Ford brakes suck, which is why I'm aftermarket with mine......even then braking performance is not limited to the type of rotors and pads you have.

 

Sad to say your right its always been that way for as long as l can remember the first mod most Brits do on a Ford is improve the brakes.

 

 

 

[SVT_MAN]

Richard: You sure have a back-handed way of saying everything.

 

There's no need to continue implying that I'm intending to making some grandiose statement or conclusion about Ford based on this post because I've already said that isn't the point.

 

Since when is gathering opinions of other Ford owners bad?

 

SVT MAN I can appreciate your frustration. I initially was angry with my Fusion, had a couple of issues, but since I moved back to the East Coast and found a good dealer, they took care of them. Turns out they were all TSB's fixed for free, and they provided a rental car. My 2007 Fusion, just turn 28k and the rotors will need to be turned, but that is really the first bit of money I will have to put out. My car new stickered at 18k...so I cannot complain. A broken door handle...does not seem that bad....I could definitely see you being angry if your post said "Blown head gasket" or something like that. The interior door handles look the same as my 2010 Edge and other Fords I have seen lately, so I would think if there was an issue they would all be breaking. I might be wrong. Maybe your car was hit in the door before you bought it, and it was repaired incorrectly. But do not lose faith, Ford is clearly not cutting corners, they get better every year, and at least now when they screw up, they own up. I like that. I am not trying to flame you, but I share your initial frustration, but if you take a step back and look at it, cars are machines, they will break. Look at the severity of what has broken, look at other makes and see what has broken on them. I bet you will see door handles on that list too.

 

There is no way I would view this post as a flame. It's a great bit of information that continues to confirm what others are saying: the Fusion has some issues but they are less major than a lot of other vehicles. Thank you for the reply. As far as the door, there isn't really any way that the vehicle was hit in the door or repaired. The door is definitely OEM and there is no evidence the car has ever been in an accident anywhere.

 

I realize door handles are not something that is a huge expense like an engine component or suspension piece, but it's simply disappointing that something that basic has failed on three out of four of my doors .. it leaves a bad taste in the

mouth.

 

What does it mean? Nothing. Maybe I got one of the few good Fusions built for the 09 MY. :shrug:

 

The statistics say all Fusions are pretty good. I'm just wondering if anybody else here has had issues with their vehicles.

Edited July 24, 2010 by SVT_MAN

[ausrutherford]

Just a thought...........a door handle breaking more than once might indicate an internal adjustment problem. Is something binding? Too loose or too tight?

 

Or maybe the owner has been tugging too hard...