Future products of Ford Motor Company

[PREMiERdrum]

You don't understand the concept of "realistic". You have this myopic viewpoint that what happens in your backyard is representative of the rest of the world. You also seem to think you know better than a management team that has proven to be making excellent business decisions.

 

It's pointless to argue with you. It's like talking to a bucket of rocks.

 

You, sir, just offended buckets of rocks everywhere.

[TomServo92]

You, sir, just offended buckets of rocks everywhere.

 

I didn't mean to do it. Hell, some of my best friends are buckets of rocks!

[akirby]

I wouldn't call 2,500/month a demand for them when Ford used to sell 200,000 of them/year. Ford can't even sell 1,000 Navigators/month. The dealers around here don't even order them for inventory. Let's get realistic here for a change. Expedition sales suck. I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. I'm not even going to suggest that Ford kill off the Expedition since you guys would go ballistic. But it would have been nice if Ford had offered the 4.4L diesel that maybe got 24mpg highway. If gas goes to $4/gallon next summer, you can forget the 17mpg Expedition. I don't see a new 5.0 V8 doing much better. Maybe 18 or 19mpg at best.

 

Why hasn't Ford updated the Expedition yet? Simple - it was more important to get the new Fiesta, Focus, Explorer, hybrids, engines, etc. out first. Even you can't argue with that.

 

Because the market for full sized SUVs is so much smaller than it was before and because of the focus on platform sharing, the Expedition cannot afford to continue on it's current dedicated platform.

 

It WILL be redesigned on a slightly modified F150 platform and will use F150 powertrains - that's almost guaranteed. Nothing else would make sense.

 

You seem to think Ford can just wave a magic wand and make new vehicles appear overnight.

 

And I'm absolutely sure that how people decide to buy vehicles and how you THINK people decide to buy new vehicles are 2 totally different things.

 

I also think you're still pissed about Ford closing Mercury.

[Torrey61]

Next generation Flex will become more like it original "Hamptons" concept.

 

The change will be stunning.

 

No way!!! REALLY?! I'm excited now!

[Extreme4x4]

Actually, it is kind of humorous................ as reading Fordbuyers posts is very similar to talking to my 8-year-old. The whole world is what he sees, and nothing else is relevant. He is the only person in the world, and what he thinks is the only important thing.................. and everyone should think the same way. Don't mess up his thought with details or facts, because they do not support what he says.

 

Yep...................... just like my 8-year-old. Well, except for the fact that my 8-year-old is open to details and facts, and will change his ideas based on them.

 

Fordbuyer, you want to know what vehicle will continue, and what won't?? Look at profits. If the vehicle is profitable, it will stay around.................... if not, it goes. Ford knows that they have made great inroads in a very important, and lucrative market (CA) with the Flex. Also, according to those who know much more than you, about the profitability of individual products...................... the Flex is wildly profitable, due to its very high transaction prices (dealers have pretty much stopped ordering low end Flex's, because they don't sell)/ product mix. So, while Ford wishes it sold more, they are very happy with the money that it makes.

 

However, I am sure this will just bounce off of you. After all, it is just messy facts, and they have no place in your ideology.

 

Frankly, with how you feel about every Ford decision, I am amazed that you are not crying conspiracy theory at Fords profit. After all, they are not doing things as you think they should, so they should be on the brink of destruction.

[NickF1011]

Ford can't even sell 1,000 Navigators/month.

 

In my opinion that has almost everything to do with it being ugly as sin and entirely outdated compared to its primary competition, the Escalade, which is still selling relatively well, demonstrating that there is definitely a market for this type of vehicle when executed somewhat well.

 

If the Expedition and Navigator are updated in a manner similar to what we've seen from every other Ford product launch (far better interiors, far better features, far better fuel economy, far better power), I expect them to become much more competitive than they are at present.

 

The poor Navigator/Expedition are almost right there with the Ranger and Panthers in terms of development neglect this past 5-6 years.

[suv_guy_19]

Well to be fair, their GM competition hasn't gotten much more attention at all, if any.

[NickF1011]

Well to be fair, their GM competition hasn't gotten much more attention at all, if any.

 

Which tells me that the segment is ripe for some expansion if Ford can execute the next Navigator properly. The current one had "fail" written all over it as soon as they uncovered the grille.

Edited August 3, 2010 by NickF1011

[ausrutherford]

In my opinion that has almost everything to do with it being ugly as sin and entirely outdated compared to its primary competition, the Escalade, which is still selling relatively well, demonstrating that there is definitely a market for this type of vehicle when executed somewhat well.

 

If the Expedition and Navigator are updated in a manner similar to what we've seen from every other Ford product launch (far better interiors, far better features, far better fuel economy, far better power), I expect them to become much more competitive than they are at present.

 

The poor Navigator/Expedition are almost right there with the Ranger and Panthers in terms of development neglect this past 5-6 years.

 

The Nav/Expy got a new platform in MY07...I dont call that neglected.

[NickF1011]

The Nav/Expy got a new platform in MY07...I dont call that neglected.

 

And has received absolutely nothing since except maybe a couple color changes. They have the most outdated interiors except for the Ranger/Panther.

[BrewfanGRB]

The whole article is really, really confusing. They say the Fusion/MKZ will be moving to the "global mid-size platform", which I THOUGHT was the Mondeo? (I see others have noted this). And that with moving it to the platform, it makes the Fusion SMALLER??

 

Then it says a Lincoln version of the Mondeo will be coming over, to be slotted just under the MKS? I don't get it.

 

First of all, why would they make the Fusion smaller? Wouldn't it then be the same size as or very, very close to the Focus? Forget it, this whole thing doesn't make any damn sense.

 

Plus, I just did a Build and Price on an 11 Fusion and I didn't see any rain-sensing wipers.

[TomServo92]

I just did a Build and Price on an 11 Fusion and I didn't see any rain-sensing wipers.

 

They're in the Rapid Spec 402A package under the Fusion Sport.

[FordBuyer]

Maybe that can heavily discount the old Focus until the new one comes out. Seems reasonable.

 

They are already, especially on the 2010 Focus which is still plentiful on dealer lots. I was just talking to a Ford salesmen who said 2010 Focus SEL was going out today on A plan at $14,000. This vehicle stickered for $21,000. I call that a hell of a deal. Ford should have some good months selling the present Focus at these prices. Lots of 2010's still left and WAP is making lots of 2011's. Good deals abound.

[FordBuyer]

Why hasn't Ford updated the Expedition yet? Simple - it was more important to get the new Fiesta, Focus, Explorer, hybrids, engines, etc. out first. Even you can't argue with that.

 

Because the market for full sized SUVs is so much smaller than it was before and because of the focus on platform sharing, the Expedition cannot afford to continue on it's current dedicated platform.

 

It WILL be redesigned on a slightly modified F150 platform and will use F150 powertrains - that's almost guaranteed. Nothing else would make sense.

 

You seem to think Ford can just wave a magic wand and make new vehicles appear overnight.

 

And I'm absolutely sure that how people decide to buy vehicles and how you THINK people decide to buy new vehicles are 2 totally different things.

 

I also think you're still pissed about Ford closing Mercury.

 

 

You are correct there sir. I certainly won't hash that out anymore. I said my peace on that subject. However, I do look at sales figures and know when a vehicle is selling well and when it's in trouble. I also know when it's competitive in its class fuel mileage wise and certainly aware of new CAFE rules and how a vehicle slots into that. I'm also aware of segments Ford is leaving and segments that are overcrowded with Ford vehicles and segments Ford is not in at all like small station wagon, leaving smaller pickups, sport wagons and for that matter high performance sports sedan, small sports car, luxury sport coupe, luxury convertible, utility jeep like vehicle as in small Bronco, and on and on.

[TomServo92]

However, I do look at sales figures and know when a vehicle is selling well and when it's in trouble.

 

Bullshit! You have NO IDEA if a vehicle is making enough profit to pay for itself at a given volume or not. I stand by my previous "bucket of rocks" comment.

[akirby]

You are correct there sir. I certainly won't hash that out anymore. I said my peace on that subject. However, I do look at sales figures and know when a vehicle is selling well and when it's in trouble. I also know when it's competitive in its class fuel mileage wise and certainly aware of new CAFE rules and how a vehicle slots into that. I'm also aware of segments Ford is leaving and segments that are overcrowded with Ford vehicles and segments Ford is not in at all like small station wagon, leaving smaller pickups, sport wagons and for that matter high performance sports sedan, small sports car, luxury sport coupe, luxury convertible, utility jeep like vehicle as in small Bronco, and on and on.

 

But you don't understand the business cases that have to be made in order for Ford to enter certain segments. There is a huge difference if Ford can modify an existing platform and drivetrains and factory production space versus having to create one from scratch or heavily modify it or build a new plant. It also depends on the current market for that vehicle, what the other mfrs already have and where the market is going a few years down the road.

 

There is no way you know more than Ford's management team, so stop pretending that you do.

[FordBuyer]

Bullshit! You have NO IDEA if a vehicle is making enough profit to pay for itself at a given volume or not. I stand by my previous "bucket of rocks" comment.

 

I'll say this one last time since many of you can't stomach any Ford criticism and in turn start throwing rocks. Flex sales may or may not be hitting Ford's internal sales projections. You are not privy to the figures and neither am I. I will say this...I feel that Ford expected the Flex to sell better than it is. You may be right that Ford is happy with ATP on it and turning a decent profit. I will give you guys that. My point is that AFTER the new Explorer hits the market, even Flex's now modest sales will fall off significantly. And I wondered out loud if it's worth it to put money into it for 2012 when it will probably need new engine choices and a freshening in order to compete with the new Explorer. Time will tell, won't it? And if Flex sales drop drastically next summer with the Explorer hitting full song on the market, I bet you guys won't remember a word I said. You can take that to the bank. Even Dean admitted that the Flex will be harder to sell once the Explorer hits the market. Maybe it's perception. You see the Flex as totally different from the Explorer and I see mostly similarities for same price basically. We will see. I hope the Flex survives, but I don't expect it to. My personal opinion and nothing more buf living and breathing Ford cars for over 40 years.

[Edstock]

Ford is not in at all like small station wagon, leaving smaller pickups, sport wagons and for that matter high performance sports sedan, small sports car, luxury sport coupe, luxury convertible, utility jeep like vehicle as in small Bronco, and on and on.

Sure is a giant market for those. They're just lining up to buy luxury convertibles and small sports cars and sport wagons. Whoever makes small station wagons must be putting on three shifts as are the builders of high performance sport sedans and luxury sport coupes.

 

You really have an attitude problem, dude.

[FordBuyer]

My fault:

 

Probably a good idea that I preface every personal criticism I have against Ford with a positive statement about Ford. Certainly the good news about Ford overwhelms the negative on a daily basis. I love how well Ford is doing with Fusion sales, Escape, Edge, Taurus, and especially F-Series. Even RWD Explorer sales have picked up nicely with it being practically only RWD SUV left on market. The Mustang is awesome. The Fiesta is very competitive and I'm very hopeful about the new Focus. Enough that I will put it on my buy list. However, I get real nervous when anyone including a big company is put on a pedestal. I know Mulally is a sharp guy and is proactive, but I'm not convinced every move is perfection. Ford will make mistakes. They may not be mistakes I point out obviously since I'm an asshole, but they will make mistakes. Ford always does like all big companies do, and they will in future also. I've lived long enough to know that for sure.

[akirby]

My point is that AFTER the new Explorer hits the market, even Flex's now modest sales will fall off significantly.

 

It's a possibility, but if you don't see what's different about the Flex vs the Explorer then you're just not paying attention. Flex sells because of the styling and the EB engine option, neither of which will be impacted by the Explorer. It's also possible that the Explorer generates much more traffic and they actually end up selling more Flexes to people who wouldn't have otherwise looked at them.

 

Until that actually happens it would be stupid for Ford to kill a vehicle that's yielding high ATP and import conquests.

[ausrutherford]

I'll say this one last time since many of you can't stomach any Ford criticism and in turn start throwing rocks. Flex sales may or may not be hitting Ford's internal sales projections. You are not privy to the figures and neither am I. I will say this...I feel that Ford expected the Flex to sell better than it is. You may be right that Ford is happy with ATP on it and turning a decent profit. I will give you guys that. My point is that AFTER the new Explorer hits the market, even Flex's now modest sales will fall off significantly. And I wondered out loud if it's worth it to put money into it for 2012 when it will probably need new engine choices and a freshening in order to compete with the new Explorer. Time will tell, won't it? And if Flex sales drop drastically next summer with the Explorer hitting full song on the market, I bet you guys won't remember a word I said. You can take that to the bank. Even Dean admitted that the Flex will be harder to sell once the Explorer hits the market. Maybe it's perception. You see the Flex as totally different from the Explorer and I see mostly similarities for same price basically. We will see. I hope the Flex survives, but I don't expect it to. My personal opinion and nothing more buf living and breathing Ford cars for over 40 years.

 

And Ford has actually done the research and Found the Explorer WILL NOT steal Flex sales.

[FordBuyer]

Sure is a giant market for those. They're just lining up to buy luxury convertibles and small sports cars and sport wagons. Whoever makes small station wagons must be putting on three shifts as are the builders of high performance sport sedans and luxury sport coupes.

 

You really have an attitude problem, dude.

 

 

Uh...what were flexible plants all about again? And I do realize Ford is doing an all new small SUV bssed off the new Focus. Who knows...they may do another smaller SUV based off the Fiesta platform. So I know Ford has some tricks up its sleeves and playing its cards close to its vest. Yeah, I was not happy when Ford ended the Focus station wagon. And Focus sales were better back then also and built in two plants.

[FordBuyer]

And Ford has actually done the research and Found the Explorer WILL NOT steal Flex sales.

 

I'm sure Ford did its research on vehicles that flopped also. Again, we will see. Ford may be spot on or totally wrong. I'm glad everyone on here sees the Explorer as totally different from Flex, but I don't see it other than styling and ride height. I see them as competing against one another. I've seen many others say the same thing, only not on BOF. I hope Flex sells even better with the new Explorer at dealerships.

[FordBuyer]

It's a possibility, but if you don't see what's different about the Flex vs the Explorer then you're just not paying attention. Flex sells because of the styling and the EB engine option, neither of which will be impacted by the Explorer. It's also possible that the Explorer generates much more traffic and they actually end up selling more Flexes to people who wouldn't have otherwise looked at them.

 

Until that actually happens it would be stupid for Ford to kill a vehicle that's yielding high ATP and import conquests.

 

I AGREE! Get it? I AGREE! But again, we will see after the new Explorer hits the market. You see it not affecting Flex sales and I say the opposite. I hope you are right and I'm wrong. Ford has ended the lives of enough vehicles recently. I don't want to see another one killed. But what I hope and think are different.

[akirby]

I'm glad everyone on here sees the Explorer as totally different from Flex, but I don't see it other than styling and ride height. I see them as competing against one another.

 

Right - because nobody buys a vehicle based on the styling. Oh wait..................

 

Once you get past the basic attributes it's ALL about the styling.

 

Bucket of rocks indeed.......