Future products of Ford Motor Company

[suv_guy_19]

Actually, Flex has more interior room than Flex - check your facts.

 

[Deanh]

Update it? The Flex is a new vehicle. How do you differentiate it from 2012 Explorer? Please. I want to know. They are both SUV wagons, both 7 passenger, both come in FWD and AWD form, both have similar cargo room behind front and rear seats, both can be used as tow vehicles, both come off same platform, and both have similar sticker prices. In detail, tell me the diffrences. Only a few come to mind....the Explorer sits up higher, Explorer hauls more, and Explorer will get better fuel mileage with more capability. I get the Edge since it's a premium 5 passenger CUV.

 

Someone on here suggested Flex go to sliding doors. Now that would differntiate the two in meaningful way. I could be wrong, but going to sliding doors could cost more than offering rebadged Fords as Mercurys.

ok, your right...they look the same, drive the same, handle the same, have the same offroad capablities, same gound clearance, tow the same etc...hell, just to spite myself im going to buy a flexplorer....THATS how similar they are....,

[PREMiERdrum]

Update it? The Flex is a new vehicle. How do you differentiate it from 2012 Explorer? Please. I want to know. They are both SUV wagons, both 7 passenger, both come in FWD and AWD form, both have similar cargo room behind front and rear seats, both can be used as tow vehicles, both come off same platform, and both have similar sticker prices. In detail, tell me the diffrences. Only a few come to mind....the Explorer sits up higher, Explorer hauls more, and Explorer will get better fuel mileage with more capability. I get the Edge since it's a premium 5 passenger CUV.

 

Someone on here suggested Flex go to sliding doors. Now that would differntiate the two in meaningful way. I could be wrong, but going to sliding doors could cost more than offering rebadged Fords as Mercurys.

 

Flex was released in 2008 as a MY2009 vehicle. Following Ford's well-published target formula for updates, the first MCE of the Flex should come sometime next year as a MY2012.

[Deanh]

Flex was released in 2008 as a MY2009 vehicle. Following Ford's well-published target formula for updates, the first MCE of the Flex should come sometime next year as a MY2012.

bingo....and Ford has stated numerous times their "refreshes" will be 3 years apart....

[FordBuyer]

quick answer...they appeal to two different types of people....this way both bases are covered....different strokes for different folks.......

 

Well Dean...no matter what our opinions we will have to wait until next summer to see how it all shakes out. Look at Explorer numbers once it's fully ramped up and selling in optimum numbers and then take a look at Flex numbers again. Again, my opinion which is not worth a cup of coffee I know, but I would be surprised to see it at this year's levels.

In my view, the numbers will not look good, and not because I'm hoping this to be the case. You will know before me since customers come in and will ask you about both vehicles. My prediction is that most will take the Explorer and the Flexes will sit on lot. Time will tell all. And Ford is stuck with the 2011 Flex until fall of 2011. No help other than incentives until possible help arrives as in new engines and other improvments. I personally would spend the money on a new Ranger or Thunderbird than Explorer Redux.

[Deanh]

Well Dean...no matter what our opinions we will have to wait until next summer to see how it all shakes out. Look at Explorer numbers once it's fully ramped up and selling in optimum numbers and then take a look at Flex numbers again. Again, my opinion which is not worth a cup of coffee I know, but I would be surprised to see it at this year's levels.

In my view, the numbers will not look good, and not because I'm hoping this to be the case. You will know before me since customers come in and will ask you about both vehicles. My prediction is that most will take the Explorer and the Flexes will sit on lot. Time will tell all. And Ford is stuck with the 2011 Flex until fall of 2011. No help other than incentives until possible help arrives as in new engines and other improvments. I personally would spend the money on a new Ranger or Thunderbird than Explorer Redux.

hey I appreciate everyones opinion whether i agree or not....and the future will be interesting. I DO see the Explorer outselling the Flex for sure...people still assimilate the word Explorer with the "tough" image they have so embraced. And thats irrespective if they do actually do ANY type of driving in conditions where 4x4 would be utilized, fact is the Explorer IS more "trucky', and the flex is more "polarizing" and thus they appeal to different buyers. But, its nice to have both choices... and since they are on the same platform basically, fords in a win win situation either way...

[silvrsvt]

And Ford is stuck with the 2011 Flex until fall of 2011.

 

 

And you can't get a new Explorer till next January....and your point is what?

 

I think you just complain to complain!

 

 

 

 

[RichardJensen]

I just think it's disappointing that Amy Wilson is off the Ford beat at Auto News.

 

Her coverage of Ford was so neat and tidy you could eat off it.

[FordBuyer]

I don't have a state, so you're right about that....and I doubt they consider the 1.25M people in Manitoba to be all that important. At the same time, I doubt they consider Detroit to be their most important market. Detroit is not a good measure of the wealth of America or North America as a whole. It's not a good place, quite frankly.

 

Yeah, I know. But in Western Wayne County, I would put Ford's market share at 50%. I can stand on the corner and count 20 Ford products in a minute or less assuming lots of traffic. In Chicago, I couldn't count 20 newer Ford's in two hours with a busier street. So yeah, we are insulated here from what rest of country drives. MI has probably more domestic vehicles on road than Cuba does with its plethora of domestic vehicles from the 50's. Add in all the classic vehicles in this town, and we may beat Cuba there also.

 

As for CA, I know CA is very diverse. Domestics are hard to find in L.A. area, but probably more prevalent in blue collar areas like Stockton. And I know the differences between L.A. County and Orange County are as different as night and day.

[FordBuyer]

And you can't get a new Explorer till next January....and your point is what?

 

I think you just complain to complain!

 

That could be true, but my point is the Flex will have to contend with the new Explorer for at least 6 months before 2012 arrives if not longer.

[Deanh]

Yeah, I know. But in Western Wayne County, I would put Ford's market share at 50%. I can stand on the corner and count 20 Ford products in a minute or less assuming lots of traffic. In Chicago, I couldn't count 20 newer Ford's in two hours with a busier street. So yeah, we are insulated here from what rest of country drives. MI has probably more domestic vehicles on road than Cuba does with its plethora of domestic vehicles from the 50's. Add in all the classic vehicles in this town, and we may beat Cuba there also.

 

As for CA, I know CA is very diverse. Domestics are hard to find in L.A. area, but probably more prevalent in blue collar areas like Stockton. And I know the differences between L.A. County and Orange County are as different as night and day.

Fordbuyer...you need to get out more often...Domestics are EVERYWWERE here...definitely NOT hard to find unless youre taliking in Stallones driveway....

[ausrutherford]

That could be true, but my point is the Flex will have to contend with the new Explorer for at least 6 months before 2012 arrives if not longer.

 

So? The Escape has to deal with the new Edge for a 1 1/2 years.

[RichardJensen]

BTW: For an idea of how good Amy Wilson was at her job, take a look at this projection published exactly 4 years ago:

 

The only clear errors are projected improvements to the panthers, and that was based on announced investment at St. Thomas.

 

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20060802/FREE/60731029

[T'Cal]

"Ford may discontinue the extended-length Expedition EL in the 2012 or 2013 model year because of poor sales. "

 

Disappointed on this. GM sells a lot of Suburbans and Yukon XLs as was mentioned just the other day in a USA Today article citing recent big sales in big SUVs. The Expedition XL sells poorly because it doesn't compete well with the vehicles that are supposed to be its competition. Update this beast with 3.7L V6, 5.0L V8, and 6.2L V8 power plants and better styling and it will have what it takes to really compete. Same for the Navigator and Nav-L.

[ausrutherford]

"Ford may discontinue the extended-length Expedition EL in the 2012 or 2013 model year because of poor sales. "

 

Disappointed on this. GM sells a lot of Suburbans and Yukon XLs as was mentioned just the other day in a USA Today article citing recent big sales in big SUVs. The Expedition XL sells poorly because it doesn't compete well with the vehicles that are supposed to be its competition. Update this beast with 3.7L V6, 5.0L V8, and 6.2L V8 power plants and better styling and it will have what it takes to really compete. Same for the Navigator and Nav-L.

 

I see more ELs than a do SWBs so this muist be hogwash as well.

[rmc523]

"Ford may discontinue the extended-length Expedition EL in the 2012 or 2013 model year because of poor sales. "

 

Disappointed on this. GM sells a lot of Suburbans and Yukon XLs as was mentioned just the other day in a USA Today article citing recent big sales in big SUVs. The Expedition XL sells poorly because it doesn't compete well with the vehicles that are supposed to be its competition. Update this beast with 3.7L V6, 5.0L V8, and 6.2L V8 power plants and better styling and it will have what it takes to really compete. Same for the Navigator and Nav-L.

 

I like the current Expy design. It's funny, I saw a Harley-Davidson Expedition the other day, and it looked pretty good:

 

 

[NickF1011]

Update it? The Flex is a new vehicle.

 

A new vehicle? It's been out for two years now. In other words, a scheduled update is right around the corner. And Ford updated the Fusion's fuel economy just one year after its refresh. Also brand new Mustang powertrains one year after a restyle. Mid-cycle updates are nothing out of the ordinary at Ford recently, nor should they be considered as such.

 

And wow, I really have to laugh at you defending Mercury again while calling for the cancelling of the Flex. The Flex not only outsells every Mercury model, it also outsells them at much higher transaction prices.

[NickF1011]

That could be true, but my point is the Flex will have to contend with the new Explorer for at least 6 months before 2012 arrives if not longer.

 

And the old Focus will have to contend with the all-new Chevy Cruze and Fiesta for months before the new one comes out. I guess Ford should just forget it and cancel the current Focus since it is so uncompetitive against those vehicles.

Edited August 2, 2010 by NickF1011

[FordBuyer]

I like the current Expy design. It's funny, I saw a Harley-Davidson Expedition the other day, and it looked pretty good:

 

 

How much longer can Ford keep selling a vehicle that gets 17mpg highway? A diesel engine would have been nice,but that was cancelled. You have to wonder how long the Expedition will remain. Looks to me like Ford doesn't want to put money into a new Expedition. When Ford stops improving a vehicle, you have to wonder. In Metro Detroit :stirpot, diesel fuel is now less than unleaded regular.

[TomServo92]

How much longer can Ford keep selling a vehicle that gets 17mpg highway?

 

As long as there is a demand for them and they are profitable.

 

Sales of big SUVs surging faster than small cars

Edited August 2, 2010 by TomServo92

[FordBuyer]

As long as there is a demand for them and they are profitable.

 

Sales of big SUVs surging faster than small cars

 

I wouldn't call 2,500/month a demand for them when Ford used to sell 200,000 of them/year. Ford can't even sell 1,000 Navigators/month. The dealers around here don't even order them for inventory. Let's get realistic here for a change. Expedition sales suck. I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. I'm not even going to suggest that Ford kill off the Expedition since you guys would go ballistic. But it would have been nice if Ford had offered the 4.4L diesel that maybe got 24mpg highway. If gas goes to $4/gallon next summer, you can forget the 17mpg Expedition. I don't see a new 5.0 V8 doing much better. Maybe 18 or 19mpg at best.

[RichardJensen]

it would have been nice if Ford had offered the 4.4L diesel

as a $9k upcharge? I don't think so.

 

It's down to two choices with you:

 

Either you think that Ford doesn't adequately research the decisions they make (which is countered by two years of increased market share and profits in a terrible economy), or you lament the economic & policy forces that are working against your concept of the ideal car.

 

Either you've got an attitude about Ford that can't be substantiated, or you've got an attitude about the market that is unrealistic.

 

Either way, you're just about three or four posts from ending up on my ignore list, as it's gotten to where I can predict every thing you post here.

[hawaiicarguy]

And the old Focus will have to contend with the all-new Chevy Cruze and Fiesta for months before the new one comes out. I guess Ford should just forget it and cancel the current Focus since it is so uncompetitive against those vehicles.

Maybe that can heavily discount the old Focus until the new one comes out. Seems reasonable.

[PREMiERdrum]

Maybe that can heavily discount the old Focus until the new one comes out. Seems reasonable.

 

They won't need to... the Focus is still selling extremely well. I don't expect the Cruze to affect that much. I do, however, expect the Cruze to put a dent in Malibu sales (until the Epsilon II Malibu debuts at least).

[TomServo92]

I wouldn't call 2,500/month a demand for them when Ford used to sell 200,000 of them/year. Ford can't even sell 1,000 Navigators/month. The dealers around here don't even order them for inventory. Let's get realistic here for a change. Expedition sales suck. I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. I'm not even going to suggest that Ford kill off the Expedition since you guys would go ballistic. But it would have been nice if Ford had offered the 4.4L diesel that maybe got 24mpg highway. If gas goes to $4/gallon next summer, you can forget the 17mpg Expedition. I don't see a new 5.0 V8 doing much better. Maybe 18 or 19mpg at best.

 

You don't understand the concept of "realistic". You have this myopic viewpoint that what happens in your backyard is representative of the rest of the world. You also seem to think you know better than a management team that has proven to be making excellent business decisions.

 

It's pointless to argue with you. It's like talking to a bucket of rocks.