MAP Vote--Greed vs. 1400 Jobs

[Machine Man]

From what I am hearing MAP barely voted down this agreement. The reason--MAP Chairman, Bill Johnson. From my friends that work at MAP, Johnson went around telling union members to vote against this contract because he didn't want a 3rd shift that added 1400 jobs because that could change the political climate and threaten his position as Chairman at the Plant. What kind of screwed up Chairman can you be when you are against adding jobs to your plant? He also told them if they voted no he would make sure they would get a lot of overtime. How the hell can Johnson guarantee that? If this goes down, I bet Ford will start moving the work slated for MAP outside the USA. I wonder what your membership will think of you then Johnson? You probably won't have to worry about political competition, because they will vote your ass out or impeach you.

 

The issue at MAP was Bill Johnsons political career and his promise of overtime to the membership at the expense of 1400 jobs. I don't call that leadership, I call it cowardice. How the hell can you live with yourself, Johnson? You call yourself a Union Chairman? Someone who would deny adding jobs and a 3rd shift in this economy? I thought union leaders, lead. You don't.

[2Legit2Quit]

I heard the same thing basically. Apparently it was even brought up by somebody at their union meeting that they would rather keep their OT than add another shift and thousands of jobs. That's embarrassing.

[wixom22]

From what I am hearing MAP barely voted down this agreement. The reason--MAP Chairman, Bill Johnson. From my friends that work at MAP, Johnson went around telling union members to vote against this contract because he didn't want a 3rd shift that added 1400 jobs because that could change the political climate and threaten his position as Chairman at the Plant. What kind of screwed up Chairman can you be when you are against adding jobs to your plant? He also told them if they voted no he would make sure they would get a lot of overtime. How the hell can Johnson guarantee that? If this goes down, I bet Ford will start moving the work slated for MAP outside the USA. I wonder what your membership will think of you then Johnson? You probably won't have to worry about political competition, because they will vote your ass out or impeach you.

 

The issue at MAP was Bill Johnsons political career and his promise of overtime to the membership at the expense of 1400 jobs. I don't call that leadership, I call it cowardice. How the hell can you live with yourself, Johnson? You call yourself a Union Chairman? Someone who would deny adding jobs and a 3rd shift in this economy? I thought union leaders, lead. You don't.

Quit spreading rumors about Bill Johnson. If someone heard Brother Johnson tell people to vote no, it would not have been for the reason you stated

Edited October 11, 2011 by wixom22

[551body]

A bad contract is a bad contract!!!

 

You just join the forums so no one believes the rumors your trying to spread.

[Dadzee]

Additional jobs at a lower pay scale and reduced benefits for workers. This combines with the AWS to take overtime from everyone. AWS being forced by International language on the locals also takes away the ability of workers to have weekends to themselves and their families. Coaching that T-Ball team as I was able to do, watching your kids in the big game, or even in all the smaller events that occur on weekends, will all be a thing of the past.

 

We are talking about quality of life issues here as well as addition of jobs. It is a debate with points on either side, but my observation is this. The global race to the bottom has now become internal to our country. The American Labor force has been so put upon that whatever job is available seems worth the taking, in fact worth throwing your hat in the ring with thousands of others for a few hundred positions.

 

In the position I am in this contract will not have that big of an immediate effect upon me, but I simply see my no vote as a vote against this change in the mindset of the American public, who I agree will see us as greedy and spoiled, and against what we are in danger of turning into as working class...no longer middle class...Americans.

 

A no vote is scary if you really think about the consequences...hell I have a bucket of Ford stock...but I simply cannot vote yes on something that I believe will have such a devastating long term negative impact on my fellow Union Brothers and sisters.

[551body]

Additional jobs at a lower pay scale and reduced benefits for workers. This combines with the AWS to take overtime from everyone. AWS being forced by International language on the locals also takes away the ability of workers to have weekends to themselves and their families. Coaching that T-Ball team as I was able to do, watching your kids in the big game, or even in all the smaller events that occur on weekends, will all be a thing of the past.

 

We are talking about quality of life issues here as well as addition of jobs. It is a debate with points on either side, but my observation is this. The global race to the bottom has now become internal to our country. The American Labor force has been so put upon that whatever job is available seems worth the taking, in fact worth throwing your hat in the ring with thousands of others for a few hundred positions.

 

In the position I am in this contract will not have that big of an immediate effect upon me, but I simply see my no vote as a vote against this change in the mindset of the American public, who I agree will see us as greedy and spoiled, and against what we are in danger of turning into as working class...no longer middle class...Americans.

 

A no vote is scary if you really think about the consequences...hell I have a bucket of Ford stock...but I simply cannot vote yes on something that I believe will have such a devastating long term negative impact on my fellow Union Brothers and sisters.

 

Well said!

[itsmeuaw]

From what I am hearing MAP barely voted down this agreement. The reason--MAP Chairman, Bill Johnson. From my friends that work at MAP, Johnson went around telling union members to vote against this contract because he didn't want a 3rd shift that added 1400 jobs because that could change the political climate and threaten his position as Chairman at the Plant. What kind of screwed up Chairman can you be when you are against adding jobs to your plant? He also told them if they voted no he would make sure they would get a lot of overtime. How the hell can Johnson guarantee that? If this goes down, I bet Ford will start moving the work slated for MAP outside the USA. I wonder what your membership will think of you then Johnson? You probably won't have to worry about political competition, because they will vote your ass out or impeach you.

 

The issue at MAP was Bill Johnsons political career and his promise of overtime to the membership at the expense of 1400 jobs. I don't call that leadership, I call it cowardice. How the hell can you live with yourself, Johnson? You call yourself a Union Chairman? Someone who would deny adding jobs and a 3rd shift in this economy? I thought union leaders, lead. You don't.

 

This why we voted it down ,it wasn,t our chairman :--Dec., ’05.- Lost a 3% raise, lost some COLA -- lost $2,000/year (about $10,000 total).

--Sept.,07. - Lost more COLA, (up to 50 cents/hour). Increased health care costs for

prescriptions, office visits and other co-pays.

--Feb., ‘09. - Lost 2 Performance Bonuses (about $5,000 total); 2 Christmas bonuses ($1,200

total); COLA eliminated; no overtime after 8 hours; Easter Monday holiday taken away; reduced

SUB ; no pay-in-lieu.

It is estimated we lost about $30,000 in money alone. But that’s only a small part of it.

--Two-tier wages. New hires lose over $25,000 a year. Two-tier wages make it harder for first tier

to get a raise and threatens to bring us all down to 2nd tier.

--The VEBA. Health care for retirees is no longer guaranteed. How much money will we have to

pay out of pocket when we retire?

--Lost break time and alternative work schedules. It makes our working conditions much harder.

It may take weeks, months or years off our lives. What price do you put on that?

Also they promise it all back if we start making a profit ,well its been 6 quarters almost 10 billion dollars profits ,they gave their salary workers theirs back and our number 1 ceo made more then all three number 1 ceos at Honda,Toyota,Nissan combine.They awarded themselves almost 96millions Bill Ford and Alan Mually in salary n bonuses recently and even our IUAW voted themselves a raise .

[usedtobe898]

[No Subject]

TO: 1 More1 recipientCC: recipientsYou More

TO:Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com Message flagged Thursday, October 6, 2011 10:29 PM Message bodyRead your contract and the UAW bylaws. IUAW gets 1.15% of all negotiated bonuses. Been that way for a very long time.

Would love to see a show of hands of people that truly believe the union can negotiate with Ford about spending several billions of dollars in the US and create or bring 10k into the country in a few weeks span when product development and man power studies take 1-3 years. For instance the highlights mention the uaw won a new product and a 3rd shift at LAP. This was talked about over a year and half ago here in Louisville yet the union is taking credit for it.

 

The fact they are paying an advance of profit sharing should be a big RED FLAG on this contract.

 

Voting for or against this contract is not gonna sway ford with their product plans.

 

If you vote yes everything we have given up becomes permanent. We will also be selling out the new hires, they have removed the part where they can reach equal pay as they replace the veterans. Read the white pages and skip the highlights.

 

 

They don't get anything from grievence payments.. And I never said that I "KNOW " that this was the reason for the delays.. I clearly stated that it made me wonder if it was possible.

I have to wonder why this grievance has taken so very long to get to this stage. I know that Arbitration can take time, but please...this is ridiculous.

this deal sucks thats why it got shot down------hopefully more plants follow map-------people are calling anyone who votes no greedy when really its the other way around-----VOTE NO!

[Makeastand]

[No Subject]

TO: 1 More1 recipientCC: recipientsYou More

TO:Undisclosed-Recipient@yahoo.com Message flagged Thursday, October 6, 2011 10:29 PM Message bodyRead your contract and the UAW bylaws. IUAW gets 1.15% of all negotiated bonuses. Been that way for a very long time.

Would love to see a show of hands of people that truly believe the union can negotiate with Ford about spending several billions of dollars in the US and create or bring 10k into the country in a few weeks span when product development and man power studies take 1-3 years. For instance the highlights mention the uaw won a new product and a 3rd shift at LAP. This was talked about over a year and half ago here in Louisville yet the union is taking credit for it.

 

The fact they are paying an advance of profit sharing should be a big RED FLAG on this contract.

 

Voting for or against this contract is not gonna sway ford with their product plans.

 

 

 

Where does it say that two tier workers will never be bumped up to our pay?

 

If you vote yes everything we have given up becomes permanent. We will also be selling out the new hires, they have removed the part where they can reach equal pay as they replace the veterans. Read the white pages and skip the highlights.

 

 

They don't get anything from grievence payments.. And I never said that I "KNOW " that this was the reason for the delays.. I clearly stated that it made me wonder if it was possible.

I have to wonder why this grievance has taken so very long to get to this stage. I know that Arbitration can take time, but please...this is ridiculous.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Makeastand

[Makeastand]

Where does it say that two tier workers will never get bumped up to our pay?

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

From what I am hearing MAP barely voted down this agreement. The reason--MAP Chairman, Bill Johnson. From my friends that work at MAP, Johnson went around telling union members to vote against this contract because he didn't want a 3rd shift that added 1400 jobs because that could change the political climate and threaten his position as Chairman at the Plant.

 

I find it extremely difficult to believe that a Plant Chairman (aka a politician pandering for votes) would go around and say that to the membership. It was voted down because the membership didn't like it.

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

I heard the same thing basically. Apparently it was even brought up by somebody at their union meeting that they would rather keep their OT than add another shift and thousands of jobs. That's embarrassing.

 

This actually happened back in 1993/1994 when the company was considering adding a third shift to Michigan Truck. At the union meeting, committeeman Rick Feldman (who would eventually become plant chairman) put a motion on the floor to not bring the 3rd shift to Michigan Truck so we could continue working tons of mandatory overtime. The motion was seconded, and others also showed their approval. Of course, it appeared that most of the people who wanted the seemingly unlimited overtime were those with high seniority that didn't work the same physically difficult jobs as their lower seniority counterparts. Thankfully, that didn't happen and the 3rd shift was brought to MTP in 1995.

[hanginonWHSP]

this deal sucks thats why it got shot down------hopefully more plants follow map-------people are calling anyone who votes no greedy when really its the other way around-----VOTE NO!

i agree!!!!!!.....BIG NO!!!

[0824sgt]

The people who actually read this agreement generally don't like it and are voting no... Those who don't read it are favoring yes until they ask why I don't like it. The first thing I tell them is "read it, all of it, even the deleted language which means language that is gone." Then I tell them " then you tell me what you think about it." Some choose not to. for why? Then those that do don't like it...the numbers will tell and if they would have told us what the results of the grievance hearing on Sept. 15th this contract would fail by 99%... At least there's time to go back to the table and rectify a few things , not just we'll pay ya any remaining vacation time Ull have left come June/December...

[Skilled1]

I heard the same thing basically. Apparently it was even brought up by somebody at their union meeting that they would rather keep their OT than add another shift and thousands of jobs. That's embarrassing.

 

I hope that is not true. A third shift would add 100 new Skilled Trades jobs in zone 1. That would be 100 less skilled working in production

 

These jobs created in this agreement is what we should be voting on !!! I could care less about bilking an extra $1000 out of the company and care more about my skilled brethren getting 100 of these new skilled positions

 

Where is the solidarity ???????

[Machine Man]

I hope that is not true. A third shift would add 100 new Skilled Trades jobs in zone 1. That would be 100 less skilled working in production

 

These jobs created in this agreement is what we should be voting on !!! I could care less about bilking an extra $1000 out of the company and care more about my skilled brethren getting 100 of these new skilled positions

 

Where is the solidarity ???????

 

No solidarity. My cell phone has been blowing up all day from friends at MAP. People are arguing, screaming at each other about the vote. Many now claim they would vote yes and want to re-vote. All because a chairman put his political career above his membership and 1400 new members.

[bronco1994]

I heard the same thing basically. Apparently it was even brought up by somebody at their union meeting that they would rather keep their OT than add another shift and thousands of jobs. That's embarrassing.

Well tell me if this is untrue? When we had the last vote for the no strike clause. MAP voted for it because they had product coming to the plant ? It makes me wounder how people think. I'm just asking. If they voted for the concession contract at MAP? Things that make you go hmmmm....

[LAP89]

I hope that is not true. A third shift would add 100 new Skilled Trades jobs in zone 1. That would be 100 less skilled working in production

 

These jobs created in this agreement is what we should be voting on !!! I could care less about bilking an extra $1000 out of the company and care more about my skilled brethren getting 100 of these new skilled positions

 

Where is the solidarity ???????

 

Where is the language saying they will ad 100 skilled jobs? I read all 562 pages but I do not remember any language requiring them to add any skilled jobs.

[mtp.cares]

If it's no vote or yes vote that is close either way our negotiators didn't do their job. Now we should ask them what kind of bonus the negotiating team is getting for a yes vote???? Yes they do get a bonus for a yes vote........think about it who is really to blame for this mess we are all in.........ask the negotiating team to start representing us and wake up

[uawfactoryrat]

From what I am hearing MAP barely voted down this agreement. The reason--MAP Chairman, Bill Johnson. From my friends that work at MAP, Johnson went around telling union members to vote against this contract because he didn't want a 3rd shift that added 1400 jobs because that could change the political climate and threaten his position as Chairman at the Plant. What kind of screwed up Chairman can you be when you are against adding jobs to your plant? He also told them if they voted no he would make sure they would get a lot of overtime. How the hell can Johnson guarantee that? If this goes down, I bet Ford will start moving the work slated for MAP outside the USA. I wonder what your membership will think of you then Johnson? You probably won't have to worry about political competition, because they will vote your ass out or impeach you.

 

The issue at MAP was Bill Johnsons political career and his promise of overtime to the membership at the expense of 1400 jobs. I don't call that leadership, I call it cowardice. How the hell can you live with yourself, Johnson? You call yourself a Union Chairman? Someone who would deny adding jobs and a 3rd shift in this economy? I thought union leaders, lead. You don't.

 

The company doesn't need local union approval to add a shift.The company puts future production plans in the contract language to entice a favorable vote, not to get approval.

 

They could have left it out and still implemented it, and negotiating to details with the international union. They "the Union" would never turn down or strike over an addition of a shift or more work.

 

Yes he may be afraid of watered down votes but he could not stop the addition of an added shift.

 

I am voting no for other reasons.

 

Return some of our " Temporary concessions" and put in place stronger language to return trades to their tools.

[Ktp1989]

I hope that is not true. A third shift would add 100 new Skilled Trades jobs in zone 1. That would be 100 less skilled working in production

 

These jobs created in this agreement is what we should be voting on !!! I could care less about bilking an extra $1000 out of the company and care more about my skilled brethren getting 100 of these new skilled positions

 

Where is the solidarity ???????

Skilled Trades voted it down by a higher percentage....this contract sucks for the Skilled Trades workers....and they expressed that.

[poop]

I hope that is not true. A third shift would add 100 new Skilled Trades jobs in zone 1. That would be 100 less skilled working in production

 

These jobs created in this agreement is what we should be voting on !!! I could care less about bilking an extra $1000 out of the company and care more about my skilled brethren getting 100 of these new skilled positions

 

Where is the solidarity ???????

 

If this is true, solidarity is gone. I see a lot of people on here saying "WE ARE THE UAW." If that's the case, what does the UAW stand for today? Seems to me if WE are the UAW, the UAW stands for the same thing Mulally stands for: Get me more money at any cost. I don't care if I could help out a neighbor by providing a decent job at a stable company, I'd rather get more money for me. We should be ashamed.

[trailfndr]

If this is true, solidarity is gone. I see a lot of people on here saying "WE ARE THE UAW." If that's the case, what does the UAW stand for today? Seems to me if WE are the UAW, the UAW stands for the same thing Mulally stands for: Get me more money at any cost. I don't care if I could help out a neighbor by providing a decent job at a stable company, I'd rather get more money for me. We should be ashamed.

 

 

Solidarity is not gone...Trust in our leadership is what is Gone. People are stiocking together and understanding that this deal is not the best. Agree or not...We all have the option to make our own choice. It is afterall...a "Democrocy" Even when we can't vote for our elected officials, or all the useless appointed reps. Even our bargaining committee is appointed. Mostly members that were hated in thier home plants, and would never have gotten re-elected, so the IUAW pulled thier ass kissing buddies upstairs to give us all the bone.

Edited October 11, 2011 by trailfndr

[cal50]

Skilled Trades voted it down by a higher percentage....this contract sucks for the Skilled Trades workers....and they expressed that.

 

 

What he said.

Our plant votes tomorrow and I have not heard of many tradesmen that "like" it. I think some of our reps feel we are lucky to have jobs. We are luck to have jobs but Ford is lucky to have some good employees working for them as well. Its a two way street and I am pleased Ford is turning it around but the trades were really left bare assed this contract.

 

I am not focused on money. I want some job security. How about a direct replacement or OFFER to replace trades taking buyouts or retirements for starts?

(Biased opinion from a trades person)

 

Voting "NO" tomorrow.........

[namelocbob2]

No solidarity. My cell phone has been blowing up all day from friends at MAP. People are arguing, screaming at each other about the vote. Many now claim they would vote yes and want to re-vote. All because a chairman put his political career above his membership and 1400 new members.

 

I Voted no. I have personal and professional differences with Bill Johnson. My name is Bobby Coleman. I do know one thing and that is that he would NEVER go around and tell people to vote no to save his political career. I hate the fact that you yes vote people are part of the problem. We all should vote this down for the mere fact that the Union and its Constitution are against unequal pay for equal work. No other reason. Ford made a profit this year with everyone at full wages....They will do it again if the product is what the consumers want. The ONLY reason the UAW brought 2 tier to the table was to eventually win the transplants. Think about it folks! Why would the UAW stray away from the strongest company as their first contract target and go after a crippled GM that their workers cannot strike! This was not the Company's idea! My solidarity is not for sale at any price. All the yes votes are the selfish greedy ones that only want to get whats best for them without thinking about future generations. Shameful!