Ford the "no" company

[BlackHorse]

AGR, Akriby, FordByuer, TImm, thanks for all of your contributions from The Department of Irrelevant Sideline Commentators. lol You guys are obviously far more upset about the fact that I got rid of that POS than I am. I couldn't be happier about it.

Edited December 16, 2011 by BlackHorse

[stpatrick90]

AGR, Akriby, FordByuer, TImm, thanks for all of your contributions from The Department of Irrelevant Sideline Commentators. lol You guys are obviously far more upset about the fact that I got rid of that POS than I am. I couldn't be happier about it.

 

No I don't think that is the point they are making. I think they are ridiculing you for purchasing a Corolla as a replacement. I have a feeling that if you had replaced your Focus with a Civic, Elantra, 3, Cruze or just about any other compact other than a Corolla that there would be less ridicule. Also the way you handled the situation as a whole certainly leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Edited December 16, 2011 by stpatrick90

[BlackHorse]

No I don't think that is the point they are making. I think they are ridiculing you for purchasing a Corolla as a replacement. I have a feeling that if you had replaced your Focus with a Civic, Elantra, 3, Cruze or just about any other compact other than a Corolla that there would be less ridicule. Also the way you handled the situation as a whole certainly leaves a lot to be desired as well.

 

Oh I don't believe that for one second. If I had traded the Focus for a brand new Porsche 911 you guys would be saying "Dude, you're going to get eatin alive at the gas pump. What a dumb thing to do. blah blah blah." And frankly there was nothing wrong with the way I handled the issue of the Focus. Whatever you guys think I should or should not have done is completely irrelevant to me. In the long run the only thing that I'm out is an extra ten dollars a month. Now if you think that's some kind of huge loss then there's nothing I can do for you except suggest a dose of common sense. It's worth the extra 10 dollars a month to be rid of that car. This notion of going through the courts and trying to declare it a lemon under the lemon law statutes was just ridiculous. That stuff takes months and months to sort out. If I want a prayer of winning I would have to hire an attorney to represent me and that in itself would cost more than the 10 dollars extra a month I have incurred by just trading the car. Ford had already declared the car to be acceptable and normal so the only thing that can be done under the lemon laws here is to file a civil action against Ford. That means hiring a lawyer and that costs money, a lot of money. It's easy to get on the internet and say "Oh well you should have done this and that and lemon lawed the car and blah blah blah." A lot of talk from people who aren't involved in the process and don't know what they're talking about. I did what needed to be done and I handled the situation the way it needed to be handled and frankly whatever you guys think about it doesn't matter to me. I got a car that I like and once again, it doesn't matter what car you think I should have traded for instead. I'm perfectly happy with the outcome, the rest of you are the only ones that have worked yourself into a tizzy about it. Just let it go.

[RichardJensen]

- You don't need a lawyer to lemon-law a car

 

- You never even took your vehicle to another dealer, despite repeated evidence that the dealer you were working with was incompetently operated.

 

Pardon us for being perplexed at your course of action.

[BlackHorse]

- You don't need a lawyer to lemon-law a car

 

- You never even took your vehicle to another dealer, despite repeated evidence that the dealer you were working with was incompetently operated.

 

Pardon us for being perplexed at your course of action.

 

Because I know the dealerships around here and the rest of you don't. Ever consider that? I took the car to the dealership that I knew had the best capability and chance of dealing with the problem. I knew that if they couldn't handle it that it wasn't going to get handled. Taking it to one of the other dealerships was not going to have a different outcome and I knew that because as I said I know the dealerships around here and what their capabilities are.

 

No I don't have to have a lawyer to bring a civil action. But you know as well as I that if you want to have a reasonable chance in court that it is in your best interest to hire an attorney. The whole process was not worth it to me when I can simply trade the car and so what if it costs me an extra 10 bucks a month. In my estimation that's a lot less hassle than going through the courts.

 

As I said, you guys need not worry. It was my car and I handled it. Don't lose any sleep or get upset over the matter.

[RangerM]

Last serious rumor I heard was about 10 years ago (!)...my dad used to work at the Edison plant (closed up in 2004 or so) and the last major update to the Ranger was in 1998 (when they got the truck) and 2001-2002 time frame was when they where supposed to get an all new truck or something with serious sheetmetal changes. I heard they where having issues with the sheetmetal stamps (who knows if this is true or not) and never got it straightened out....then 9/11 and the assorted fallout from that put the Ranger to bed...

I knew there had been rumors over the years, but how many were real or fiction I didn't know. Some of them go back to the (really) old days of Blueovalnews when it was (as far as I can remember) a single webpage that posted rumors of future Ford product plans.

 

It's hard to know what might have been if it had been updated, but we are in an era when survival is the priority, so no Ranger. If you'd asked me 19 years ago if I expected to still have the Ranger I'm driving today, I would have thought it ludicrous. But, I also wouldn't have thought I would like it as much after that many years, either.

 

My truck has a UAW sticker on it with a picture of New Jersey. It's too worn to see if there was a city on it, but are you sure the Edison plant got the Ranger in 2008? My truck is a '93.

[silvrsvt]

My truck has a UAW sticker on it with a picture of New Jersey. It's too worn to see if there was a city on it, but are you sure the Edison plant got the Ranger in 2008? My truck is a '93.

 

Your right...I was confusing my dates...Edison got the Ranger in 1992/3 when the Escort (which they where making previously) switched over to the Madaza 323 Platform. My dad got his Ranger in 1998

Edited December 16, 2011 by silvrsvt

[silvrsvt]

I love how they've stuck with the 'Stang, but I don't think it's unfair to be less than thrilled with a lineup that's partially based on very aged Volvo bones...and all the evolution hasn't made driver's cars out of the results.

 

The Camry has been on the same platform for what? 15 years or so? The Impala (not a good example) has been on the same platform even longer

 

There is no issue using the same platform as long as it can meet safety requirements and is updated as time goes on. Is the 2012 Focus any less of a car if it can use some of the same parts from a C1 Focus that came out nearly 10 years ago?

 

 

[jpd80]

GM is roughly four years late with their new Impala' date=' had Lutz not interfered,

 

 

[b']There is no Ep-interceptor at all (hence the Caprice)and the current Impala have 300+HP, why they need a s/c?

You didn't read my post properly, I said:

][/u] They might need a S/C or turbo V6 to get the last bit but

the bulk of squad cars can get by with HP V6... +300 hp is enough.

 

 

doubt Chrysler is sitting around in fact the Charger won the 2012 MSP test.

 

Yes it did, so how come PDs aren't flooding Dodge with orders?

Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80

[Edstock]

that's partially based on very aged Volvo bones...and all the evolution hasn't made driver's cars out of the results.

 

Well, sparky, it seems you don't know much about how cars are designed.

 

 

It's called CAD: computer aided design. Those " very aged Volvo bones" have long since disappeared, as they keep modifying the chassis on the computer, changing, eventually — EVERYTHING. For example, of course you already knew that Ford made a big change from the 500 to the Taurus with how the engine/transmission and front suspension are installed into the monocoque, unitized body. With the 500, like its Volvo antecedent, the engine/trans and suspension were part of the same front sub-frame. Of course, you remember that Ford re-engineered the chassis to give the motor its own direct mounts to the chassis. Not too much of those " very aged Volvo bones" left.

 

Have you driven a Taurus? Last week, I drove almost 1,000 miles with a 2011 Taurus SEL AWD, 18" 55-series tires. Nice driver's car for a full-size, out of the results, cut a 2010 TL a new ass in traffic, goes through the twisties very nicely. Take one for a test drive, and see.

 

 

[ZanatWork]

The Camry has been on the same platform for what? 15 years or so? The Impala (not a good example) has been on the same platform even longer

 

There is no issue using the same platform as long as it can meet safety requirements and is updated as time goes on. Is the 2012 Focus any less of a car if it can use some of the same parts from a C1 Focus that came out nearly 10 years ago?

 

 

Okay, your first two comments are meaningless as neither are drivers' cars (usually seen as the opposite) and don't stand against my point whatsoever.

 

As far as the Focus comparison...isn't it one of the reasons JDPower has dropped Ford's quality so low? Bad timing on that example, and yes, I know it's all about the tranny and MFT.

 

Great RWD cars are still defining most of the upper echelons in "drivers' cars", just ask Mullaly and the LS430 he drove when he came on board.

[ZanatWork]

Well, sparky, it seems you don't know much about how cars are designed.

 

 

It's called CAD: computer aided design. Those " very aged Volvo bones" have long since disappeared, as they keep modifying the chassis on the computer, changing, eventually — EVERYTHING. For example, of course you already knew that Ford made a big change from the 500 to the Taurus with how the engine/transmission and front suspension are installed into the monocoque, unitized body. With the 500, like its Volvo antecedent, the engine/trans and suspension were part of the same front sub-frame. Of course, you remember that Ford re-engineered the chassis to give the motor its own direct mounts to the chassis. Not too much of those " very aged Volvo bones" left.

 

Have you driven a Taurus? Last week, I drove almost 1,000 miles with a 2011 Taurus SEL AWD, 18" 55-series tires. Nice driver's car for a full-size, out of the results, cut a 2010 TL a new ass in traffic, goes through the twisties very nicely. Take one for a test drive, and see.

 

Actually, as I'm quite tall, the Taurus doesn't fit me as well as the 500/X did...so I've been less than impressed with the car. I believe Car and Driver said that it was now almost un-driveable for anyone over 5'10". Google "Taurus cramped seats" and you can find more examples. The higher beltline causing feelings of cramped comfines, etc. Whooee, put up a new laughing emoticon for a job done...with mediocrity.

 

As far as the driving experience, which is central to my point that's still being avoided, remember any really great reviews on that subject? No? Me either, and I'm reading car mags/sites constantly. The driving experience, new subframe or not, gets many of the same "isolated" and "unexciting" marks that have plagued that platform since it debuted under the S80.

 

I'm afraid all the emoticons on the site can't help you when you fail to make a valid point. Go look for one crying.

Edited December 16, 2011 by ZanatWork

[V8-X]

Nobody's doing well in this segment, and the minor players are probably not turning profits. It's a cut throat market. There's considerable pricing pressure, scant evidence that fuel prices drive growth, and a shrinking market.

Put this way: If Ford had never been in the market, it would not be worth entering.

 

The market has gotten smaller, and for what it costs to tool up to build the T-6 in the US, it just isn't profitable enough, or even at all — and it still won't fit in small parking spaces, because C-size barely fits in them.

No one other than Toyota really offers a decent compact/mid-size truck in this segment anyways. And we see Ford pulling in 2nd with the existing 20yr old design. Many people are unwilling to purchase a 20yr old designed Ranger, and also unwilling to purchase a Toyota. So these people have no other option but to purchase an F150 or keep their old Ranger, or move to another product.

 

But it's okay to bring the TC to the states, when clearly there was (is) not much of any market for it here. How about the Fiesta? And the Focus sales lately? Designed elsewhere, cost distributed for its development spread worldwide. But they are viable options. The T6 though, is a global product and would be similar to offering these other products, but it's not a good decision. Contradiction?

 

Have you driven a Taurus? Last week, I drove almost 1,000 miles with a 2011 Taurus SEL AWD, 18" 55-series tires. Nice driver's car for a full-size, out of the results, cut a 2010 TL a new ass in traffic, goes through the twisties very nicely. Take one for a test drive, and see.

The Taurus is an amazing car to drive. My father-in-law has a 2010 SEL AWD in cinnamon, and that car sticks to the road, with no noticeable body lean on the twisty mountain highway (I-70) doing 75mph. Took a 200 mile trip driving it through our CO mountains and it was simply impressive how great it handled. One of the best features is the 6spd auto with the paddle shifters. Loved being able to gear up/down on inclines/declines with the flick of a finger and keep the RPM's and gearing exactly where I wanted. He only keeps his cars for 3yrs, so I'm seriously considering purchasing this Taurus from him in Jan/Feb 2013.

[aneekr]

Actually, as I'm quite tall, the Taurus doesn't fit me as well as the 500/X did...so I've been less than impressed with the car. I believe Car and Driver said that it was now almost un-driveable for anyone over 5'10". Google "Taurus cramped seats" and you can find more examples. The higher beltline causing feelings of cramped comfines, etc. Whooee, put up a new laughing emoticon for a job done...with mediocrity.

 

As far as the driving experience, which is central to my point that's still being avoided, remember any really great reviews on that subject? No? Me either, and I'm reading car mags/sites constantly. The driving experience, new subframe or not, gets many of the same "isolated" and "unexciting" marks that have plagued that platform since it debuted under the S80.

 

I'm afraid all the emoticons on the site can't help you when you fail to make a valid point. Go look for one crying.

:yup:

 

To ZanatWork's point, some of the newest products on Ford's D3 and D4 platforms are actually worse in many respects than either the original P2 Volvo S80 or the Five-Hundred/Freestyle/Montego. The V6 Ecoboost engine offering is one aspect that may appeal to driving enthusiasts, though.

[630land]

So sick to death of the whining about Ranger, Panther and nit picky crap. Don't like Ford's offerings, go elsewhere, they will still find other buyers. The world isn't ending since the Grand Marquis is no longer sold. But, don't make up things like 'old Volvo bones' and conspiracy fears.

 

Just get something else and move on with your life.

 

Also sick of hearing about 'cramped seats', when it's really people have gained weight.

Edited December 16, 2011 by 630land

[V8-X]

So sick to death of the whining about Ranger, Panther and nit picky crap. Don't like Ford's offerings, go elsewhere, they will still find other buyers.

See, this is part of the issue though that people don't realize. There may not always be buyers.

 

Didn't Ford (as did the other domestics) practically say/do the same thing back in the 70s/80s/90s in the car market? Did Ford find other buyers? Hmm, sure they did some, but seems Ford is just now digging itself out of the bottom of the car market segment. So they are abandoning certain segments (again) to concentrate on other areas. Guess as they say, history does repeat itself.

[aneekr]

Also sick of hearing about 'cramped seats', when it's really people have gained weight.

Where's that new laughing emoticon that ZanatWork asked about?

[Deanh]

AGR, Akriby, FordByuer, TImm, thanks for all of your contributions from The Department of Irrelevant Sideline Commentators. lol You guys are obviously far more upset about the fact that I got rid of that POS than I am. I couldn't be happier about it.

actually Blackhorse, if you didnt pursue and make the effort to go to another dealer its call out time, you COULD have pursued a lemon law...but what resulted is a classic case of chopping ones nose off to spite their face.....Corolla, REALLY?....egad man!

Edited December 16, 2011 by Deanh

[RichardJensen]

Because I know the dealerships around here and the rest of you don't. Ever consider that? I took the car to the dealership that I knew had the best capability and chance of dealing with the problem. I knew that if they couldn't handle it that it wasn't going to get handled. Taking it to one of the other dealerships was not going to have a different outcome and I knew that because as I said I know the dealerships around here and what their capabilities are.

 

No I don't have to have a lawyer to bring a civil action. But you know as well as I that if you want to have a reasonable chance in court that it is in your best interest to hire an attorney. The whole process was not worth it to me when I can simply trade the car and so what if it costs me an extra 10 bucks a month. In my estimation that's a lot less hassle than going through the courts.

 

As I said, you guys need not worry. It was my car and I handled it. Don't lose any sleep or get upset over the matter.

Lemon laws do not require lawyers or civil procedure. They exist to eliminate the need to sue a manufacturer in court, not to require it.

 

Secondly, how well do you know the *service departments* at the Ford and Lincoln dealers in your area? The salesmen may be crooks, the building may be falling down, but the service department may be competently run.

 

If you are in a major metro, odds are at least one of the Ford dealers has a solid service department that has gotten fat off frustrated customers from every other department.

 

When the Ford & LM franchises were under different ownership in Sioux Falls, the LM franchise did a land office business on Ford customers who didn't trust the Ford dealership's service department.

 

The kicker? The LM franchise, overall, was run horribly and the Ford franchise was a model operation.

Edited December 16, 2011 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

Actually, as I'm quite tall, the Taurus doesn't fit me as well as the 500/X did...so I've been less than impressed with the car. I believe Car and Driver said that it was now almost un-driveable for anyone over 5'10". Google "Taurus cramped seats" and you can find more examples. The higher beltline causing feelings of cramped comfines, etc. Whooee, put up a new laughing emoticon for a job done...with mediocrity.

 

As far as the driving experience, which is central to my point that's still being avoided, remember any really great reviews on that subject? No? Me either, and I'm reading car mags/sites constantly. The driving experience, new subframe or not, gets many of the same "isolated" and "unexciting" marks that have plagued that platform since it debuted under the S80.

 

I'm afraid all the emoticons on the site can't help you when you fail to make a valid point. Go look for one crying.

Try and stay on topic, if you can. Instead of evading with emoticons, let's discuss the Taurus, OK?

 

 

Of course, you're aware that besides the "new subframe or not," the new engine/transmission mounting system and the firewall/suspension tower structural changes required for the Taurus has meant that it shares virtually nothing with the S-80 platform that Ford started with.

 

 

If you have driven an SEL with 18" 55-series, "isolated" and "unexciting" are not part of the performance description. You might not like the seating, but that chassis handles just fine, for driving experience.

 

But hey, it makes you feel good, keep on keepin' on with your parade.

 

 

[stpatrick90]

Oh I don't believe that for one second. If I had traded the Focus for a brand new Porsche 911 you guys would be saying "Dude, you're going to get eatin alive at the gas pump. What a dumb thing to do. blah blah blah." And frankly there was nothing wrong with the way I handled the issue of the Focus. Whatever you guys think I should or should not have done is completely irrelevant to me. In the long run the only thing that I'm out is an extra ten dollars a month. Now if you think that's some kind of huge loss then there's nothing I can do for you except suggest a dose of common sense. It's worth the extra 10 dollars a month to be rid of that car. This notion of going through the courts and trying to declare it a lemon under the lemon law statutes was just ridiculous. That stuff takes months and months to sort out. If I want a prayer of winning I would have to hire an attorney to represent me and that in itself would cost more than the 10 dollars extra a month I have incurred by just trading the car. Ford had already declared the car to be acceptable and normal so the only thing that can be done under the lemon laws here is to file a civil action against Ford. That means hiring a lawyer and that costs money, a lot of money. It's easy to get on the internet and say "Oh well you should have done this and that and lemon lawed the car and blah blah blah." A lot of talk from people who aren't involved in the process and don't know what they're talking about. I did what needed to be done and I handled the situation the way it needed to be handled and frankly whatever you guys think about it doesn't matter to me. I got a car that I like and once again, it doesn't matter what car you think I should have traded for instead. I'm perfectly happy with the outcome, the rest of you are the only ones that have worked yourself into a tizzy about it. Just let it go.

 

You are an insufferable oaf. As WE ALL have pointed out there are many things you could have done differently in your situation but given your irrationality with dealing with the problem you were simply incapable of doing the logical course of action that normal people do. Here is what I would have done in a mature, sensible manner:

 

1) Despite your claim of "knowing" the dealership had the best chance of dealing with the problem (which obviously they didn't) I would have gone to another dealership for at least another opinion. I know that any normal person would do this. For example the MMI in my Audi wasn't working properly so I took it to the dealership that I bought it from and they claimed they couldn't fix it as it was working as they believed it should, I took it to another service department and after an hour I was on my way home with a fix.

 

2) If you car was in fact a lemon, you could have done Lemon Law despite your misconceptions about it, it actually doesn't require a lawyer. I know laws vary from state to state but around 2003 my mother filed a lemon law claim on her MB at the time and it was a quick and rather simple process.

 

3) If all the above actions failed then I would look at trading in the car for another.

a.) However I would not take a significant hit on the trade in value such as you did. Lets say for an easy example you bought a car for $24,000 and that after less than a year and only 9000 miles your trade in should have been at least in the $15,000 to $17,000 range. Comparatively I believe you stated you traded your Focus in for $12k or $13k. You wen from a more expensive car to a cheaper car, your monthly payment should have gone down, not up. The Toyota dealership hosed you big time.

b.) Also when I would go to trade in, I would not buy a Corolla. Like I already said I feel that if you would have bought an actual good compact such as a Civic, Elantra, Cruve, etc that you would be getting less flack. I think most would agree with that assertion.

 

To sum it up, you made a mistake in how you dealt with the issue. If you would have approached this issue from a sensible approach you would be getting more empathy.

Edited December 16, 2011 by stpatrick90

[Deanh]

You are an insufferable oaf. As WE ALL have pointed out there are many things you could have done differently in your situation but given your irrationality with dealing with the problem you were simply incapable of doing the logical course of action that normal people do. Here is what I would have done in a mature, sensible manner:

 

1) Despite your claim of "knowing" the dealership had the best chance of dealing with the problem (which obviously they didn't) I would have gone to another dealership for at least another opinion. I know that any normal person would do this. For example the MMI in my Audi wasn't working properly so I took it to the dealership that I bought it from and they claimed they couldn't fix it as it was working as they believed it should, I took it to another service department and after an hour I was on my way home with a fix.

 

2) If you car was in fact a lemon, you could have done Lemon Law despite your misconceptions about it, it actually doesn't require a lawyer. I know laws vary from state to state but around 2003 my mother filed a lemon law claim on her MB at the time and it was a quick and rather simple process.

 

3) If all the above actions failed then I would look at trading in the car for another.

a.) However I would not take a significant hit on the trade in value such as you did. Lets say for an easy example you bought a car for $24,000 and that after less than a year and only 9000 miles your trade in should have been at least in the $15,000 to $17,000 range. Comparatively I believe you stated you traded your Focus in for $12k or $13k. You wen from a more expensive car to a cheaper car, your monthly payment should have gone down, not up. The Toyota dealership hosed you big time.

b.) Also when I would go to trade in, I would not buy a Corolla. Like I already said I feel that if you would have bought an actual good compact such as a Civic, Elantra, Cruve, etc that you would be getting less flack. I think most would agree with that assertion.

 

To sum it up, you made a mistake in how you dealt with the issue. If you would have approached this issue from a sensible approach you would be getting more empathy.

side-bar, my Stepdaughter likes Mac and Cheese because it can be put in the Microwave, doesnt like anything that requires effort.....regardless of potentially tastier results....

Edited December 16, 2011 by Deanh

[fordmantpw]

side-bar, my Stepdaughter likes Mac and Cheese because it can be put in the Microwave, doesnt like anything that requires effort.....regardless or potentially tastier results....

 

That sums it up perfectly!

 

Honestly, that sums up 90% of the population, especially the younger folks now. I'm 35, and I see a lot of that in my generation, but especially in those 10-15 years younger. Pretty sad really.

[Edstock]

That sums it up perfectly!

 

Honestly, that sums up 90% of the population, especially the younger folks now. I'm 35, and I see a lot of that in my generation, but especially in those 10-15 years younger. Pretty sad really.

Actually, the slob mind-set is eternal. Nuke boxes and drive-throughs just make it easier.

[Fgts]

[quote name='jpd80' timestamp='1324046438'

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it did, so how come PDs aren't flooding Dodge with orders?

 

They dont have to just like the Taurus pi or Caprice because they filled up with c/v's and cash straped. But I do see many Chargers in southern states as highway interceptors and sheriff's cars.